Pick Your Power II - Looks like the wine is gone (SCUM WIN)

[Fate]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

StrangerCoug

- 1 - The1fifi - (L-5)

The1fifi

- 1 - StrangerCoug - (L-5)

Players not voting: Devotress, Ellibereth, Faraday, Fate, Hoopla, Jack, TonyMontana, wolframnhart

I'm back.

@Ellie, my gambit with Faraday proved him town.

I pretended to be Porkens in the QT. When Porkens died he said, "ugh Socrates. At least we got one scum." Then he said, after realizing it, "oh you're dead, fuck it."

Scum would not have done this, knowing they killed Porkens.

Faraday is 100% town to me.

I'll respond to the rest in a few.

that doesn't help, you know.. we need to find the vig..

It will help later on. Are you against confirming townies?

[Fate]

I don't get where Fate is getting the "coug must be town". Is it solely based on "he took a hell of a risk claiming it"? He didn't take a big risk.

Fate is saying that me or fifi is the scumvig, and that he (fate) is town. If that's the case, then coug going for bomb makes sense as scum, it's not a huge risk. If he gets counterclaimed they know where the bomb is and one of the non-vig scum (coug could be non-vig) gets lynched. If fate thinks I'm lying about being vengeful, then coug could be the vengeful and the scum could win with his lynch.

Ok, that's as clear as I can make that paragraph. Essentially, there is no reason for Fate as town to assume that coug is innocent. All of the other assumptions he's making (devotress could be vengeful, etc) make sense with coug being scum. Ergo, he is probably coug's scumbuddy.

If I wasn't clear, I meant it was a hell of a risk to

claim

to have gone for bomb and not actually done so. Are you suggesting that he is scumvanilla that went for bomb?

Devotress being vengeful and SC being scum are two different entities entirely. Devotress is above, DP. She could be vengeful with you being the vig, Jack. Nothing to do with SC at all, Ergo, that didn't make sense.

[StrangerCoug]

SC either took a hell of a risk claiming going for bomb, or he's scum with Jack.

Your wording implies that you think I'm scum either way. I don't think your statement here is scummy, but I want to probe into your thought processes for a bit: Why would it be more risky for me to claim I went for the bomb if I were scum with Jack than if I were not?

You got it backwards

Then set me straight.

This does not come off to me as genuine. It is OMGUS and WIFOM mixed together, and I'm having a hard time seeing any sort of case on Fate. (Pop quiz for everyone else: Who do I think is vig?)

Vote: The1fifi

I don't like this post. SC, you fail to mention the fact that EITHER JACK OR MYSELF ARE THE BOMB. You, "fail" to see the case on me? From your POV, the only case you could have on me is:

I'm scumvig with Jackbomb and he claimed something else so I could claim bomb. But you mention none of this in your thought process, even though it should be very important to you.

This almost seems like a scumslip, SC. Did you forget you had claimed bomb?

Why I did not mention the bomb is very simple: I am not hunting for the bomb. Yes, I should know—and I do—that it's either you or Jack. I also remember people presenting evidence that the bomb is scum. Why is my failure to mention the bomb suspicious?

[Jack]

I was putting forward a scenario where you were town, as you claim.

If you think I'm scum and not vengeful--then coug could be vengeful. And if he's vengeful, then scum would

win

if he was lynched today, as long as he knew where the bomb was so that they didn't die killing it.

So there's no reason for you to count him out as scum.

[The1fifi]

I'm back.

@Ellie, my gambit with Faraday proved him town.

I pretended to be Porkens in the QT. When Porkens died he said, "ugh Socrates. At least we got one scum." Then he said, after realizing it, "oh you're dead, fuck it."

Scum would not have done this, knowing they killed Porkens.

Faraday is 100% town to me.

I'll respond to the rest in a few.

that doesn't help, you know.. we need to find the vig..

It will help later on. Are you against confirming townies?

Well, i you confirm townied, then they get killed. But apart from that, i am fine

[Fate]

Fate is saying that me or fifi is the scumvig, and that he (fate) is town. If that's the case, then coug going for bomb makes sense as scum, it's not a huge risk. If he gets counterclaimed they know where the bomb is and one of the non-vig scum (coug could be non-vig) gets lynched.

If fate thinks I'm lying about being vengeful, then coug could be the vengeful and the scum could win with his lynch.

I finally made sense of this post, you're saying either:

1. Coug claimed vanilla going for bomb to try and draw a counterclaim from below him, thus letting scum know where the bomb is and losing Coug as vengeful lynchee, which makes them win.

But this requires you to be lying about vengeful lynchee. And we would know the scumvig wouldn't take a chance at being counter-claimed, so we wouldn't lynch Coug even if he was caught with the bomb below him.

But I still rather use occam's razor. SC got vanilla after trying for bomb, which is why he waffled on Socrates case. He also said he didn't think Jack was likely to be the bomb (which would prevent the SC+Jack team having Jack claim bomb after my claim, if I didn't do so.) Also he is terrible when responding to arguments on his case... I guess.

He isn't really clear, in the way other people are, but I just can't make sense of it my mind the situation where he is the vig and claims going for bomb without knowing if it is above him or not.

Also scratch what I said earlier about scum killing DP to make sure he wasn't vengeful himself. This doesn't make sense in my arguments because that would mean they still wouldn't fakeclaim Vengeful because a townie about DP would have it.

So most likely:
Jack=Scum vig/Town vengeful
Fifi=Scum vig/???
Devotress=Scum vengeful/Scum vig

But right now I bet everyone is getting more and more confused. We need:

1. The rest of the claims
2. A debate on who the scumvig is if Jack isn't it, so that we can direct TownJack's shot

[Jack]

You're

damning me if I do and damning me if I don't

. My post makes it clear that I concede to fence-sitting, but when I realize that the odds weren't in favor of Socrates being town, it's scummy when I finally come to my senses and act on it? What's going on?

Yes. You were fence sitting, scummy as you acknowledge (you acknowledging it doesn't make it less scummy). So you are damning yourself for half of it. The "damning you if you do" part is my read of that post being you as soc's scumbuddy joining the wagon.

And yes, there's a limited amount you can say about gut reads. I read the rest of your reply, but it reads to me like an attempt to muddy the waters more than anything, like your first bit about the null tell, and how you keep emphasizing that we're at an impasse. Scum never agree that they're scum, so it's always an impasse.

Don't you agree that scum:

1) sometimes post weak, careless cases, sometimes on their partners to distance
2) sometimes try and act like they are intent on lynching them, but don't actually try and lynch them
3) sometimes react in unnatural ways to their partners cop claims

[The1fifi]

@Fate : I already said i am not the vig. I don't wanna lose, so don't make that mistake.

[Fate]

Why I did not mention the bomb is very simple: I am not hunting for the bomb. Yes, I should know—and I do—that it's either you or Jack. I also remember people presenting evidence that the bomb is scum. Why is my failure to mention the bomb suspicious?

Look. If I am the scumvig, and you are the town vanilla, I would in no way in hell claim Scum bomb. I could claim Vanilla going for Cop, and the guess what? YOU'D be the liar since Jack didn't claim bomb either.

Me claiming Bomb should be a significant point for you. I don't remember your evidence that the bomb is scum, but I do remember you thinking Socrates was the town bomb as he claimed.

You're line of thinking continues to baffle me. "I should know-and I do-" Well what conclusions do you draw from this? How does you knowing where the bomb is point you to thinking fifi is the vig? Why did you not think Jack was the bomb earlier and that it was either myself or Socrates?

[Fate]

@Fate : I already said i am not the vig. I don't wanna lose, so don't make that mistake.

You really are terrible no matter what side you're on?

Town: HELP US OUT. Why aren't you the vig? Because you freakin said so? Because you don't want to lose? WHO IS THE VIG THEN? SC? Why the hell did you vote SC? In what situation would he claim vanilla (bomb) in his situation? To set up my fakeclaim as bomb? Then wouldn't I be more likely scum vig?

Your vote on SC is just pure OMGUS

Scum: You look terrible right now. If it wasn't more likely that Jack was vig based on the draft, I'd want to lynch you directly.

[Fate]

@Jack: Read my last post directed at fifi.

Since you are also pressuring SC, I want to know what scenario in your head works out with him claiming vanilla (bomb) as the scum vig.

You only proposed a situation in which he is scum Vengeful trying to draw a lynch by being caught in a lie.... ??? We need to find the Vig today Jack, and you trying to deflect onto a bad townie doesn't look too good.

What do you think of fifi, Jack?

[The1fifi]

@Fate : I hink either you, jack, or sc are the vig. In order:

SC
Jack
Fate

[Fate]

WHY?

[The1fifi]

And i don0t like you saying i am terrible. i believe everyone has the right to play as they want, and it is not up to you to judge who is good and who is bad, cause you aren't owner of the right and wrong. I could say you suck to, because if you are really town, going for bomb failed big time, and we are about to lose cause we lost the vig.

[The1fifi]

SC : His posts today have been diferent and look scummy imo. Jack pointed out some pretty good ones, but i can't figure out who of them two is the vig. you seem the less likely , by your posting throughout the game, but u can be a really good actor.

[Fate]

If you read back, I admitted my own failings for not going for the Vig role. I'm not judging you, if anything it is an ATE.

Your ATE: I don't want to lose please believe me.
My ATE in response: You are doing badly, please improve the quality of your posts.

Now please, what situation makes sense that SC is the scumvig? I'll give you a hint: I'd have to be scum with him to corroborate the bomb fakeclaim. You can now elaborate as to what you think I am if SC is the scum vig, etc. etc.

[The1fifi]

Not really, Fate. It could be a gambit from him, and in case it failed, scum would have some info on where the bomb was. But at lylo, we can't go for remote ideas... I am trying to figure out what would be the better lynch..

[Fate]

SC : His posts today have been diferent and look scummy imo. Jack pointed out some pretty good ones, but i can't figure out who of them two is the vig. you seem the less likely , by your posting throughout the game, but u can be a really good actor.

You and Jack together on SC. Interesting interesting. His posts look scummy. Bouncy's posts looked scummy. FFFF's posts looked scummy.

That doesn't tie into the situation we have here with all the power roles and draft orders in play. SC would be taking a huge risk to claim vanilla (bomb) if he were the scumvig and Jack and I were town. If Jack+SC were scum, Jack could

*lightbulb*

Jack could've gone for Vig, and SC for BOMB, so that (like Hoopla described earlier in relation to me/Soc) the Vig could fire at will! It failed because I had the bomb.

BUT... why did they shoot RC? or Cobalt? They should have been afraid of the bomb above SC. Maybe they read me too well when I didn't claim D1, and figured I was the bomb the whole time.

Either way, this now looks like Jack is bussing SC. Whether Jack is trying to mislynch SC or bus him, all fingers point to Jack. Or fifi. But, like I said earlier, under the possibility that Jack is town we can have him Vengeful fifi.

Mind sacrificing yourself for town, Jack? I'll vote you as soon as the others claim (and don't mess with everything), rest assured.

[Fate]

Not really, Fate. It could be a gambit from him, and in case it failed, scum would have some info on where the bomb was. But at lylo, we can't go for remote ideas... I am trying to figure out what would be the better lynch..

So a gambit to find the bomb is worth sacrificing SC, who you think is their Vig?

[The1fifi]

Not really, Fate. It could be a gambit from him, and in case it failed, scum would have some info on where the bomb was. But at lylo, we can't go for remote ideas... I am trying to figure out what would be the better lynch..

So a gambit to find the bomb is worth sacrificing SC, who you think is their Vig?

Well, it doesn't make sense to gambit with the vig, no..

[Fate]

^In the above SC+Jack situation, FFFF would be the perfect mislynch in case he was bomb. They vigged everyone below SC and shot everyone above.

It makes sense now. Scum would have wanted bomb if they had vig. They wouldn't go for the bomb first before vig, so they went after.

[Fate]

Not really, Fate. It could be a gambit from him, and in case it failed, scum would have some info on where the bomb was. But at lylo, we can't go for remote ideas... I am trying to figure out what would be the better lynch..

So a gambit to find the bomb is worth sacrificing SC, who you think is their Vig?

Well, it doesn't make sense to gambit with the vig, no..

Then are you going to change your vote?

[The1fifi]

^In the above SC+Jack situation, FFFF would be the perfect mislynch in case he was bomb. They vigged everyone below SC and shot everyone above.

It makes sense now. Scum would have wanted bomb if they had vig. They wouldn't go for the bomb first before vig, so they went after.

No. This is totally wrong. There is no IF.They had to choose what to go for. And there is no first or last. The pick results came out all at the same time for everyone, so they couldn'r "oh, we got vig, lets go for bomb too"...

[The1fifi]

Not really, Fate. It could be a gambit from him, and in case it failed, scum would have some info on where the bomb was. But at lylo, we can't go for remote ideas... I am trying to figure out what would be the better lynch..

So a gambit to find the bomb is worth sacrificing SC, who you think is their Vig?

Well, it doesn't make sense to gambit with the vig, no..

Then are you going to change your vote?

I supose.

unvote

[Fate]

No. This is totally wrong. There is no IF.They had to choose what to go for. And there is no first or last. The pick results came out all at the same time for everyone, so they couldn'r "oh, we got vig, lets go for bomb too"...

I didn't mean it in that way. I mean their thought process was:

"What should everyone pick?"
Etc. etc.
"Jack go for vig, and SC for bomb. If we get both we're golden."

With the reasoning that getting vig by itself was more important than bomb by itself, so they assigned a player higher on the draft to get it. Why it wasn't Socrates is beyond me, (I guess they predicted all eyes would turn to him when we were looking for the vig. And wala! 2 days wasted on the bastard).