Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[Fate]

okay the suspicions of leafsnail are complete crap. Just letting everyone know. All he has done the entire thread is point out a rule that contradicts the basics of a game of mafia, and ask Ellibereth if there was a purpose for the jokes. Trying to be serious and hunt scum is now a scumtell? everyone on that bandwagon needs to think about it a little more.

Actually, did an ISO of Pman. Only time he ever mentions Leafsnail is when he's defending him. There are a few more posts like this.

Vote: Leafsnail

FOS: Moriarty

I liked Kitten's posts, but her replacement have been non-existant.

[Leafsnail]

Hehe. Obvious attempt at framing is obvious.

And yes, it couldn't have been a bus. However, I do not see how that is a defense. Jumping on and off someone randomly is scummy even if they are not your partner.

In addition, I see no possible way in which a direct accusation on you is deflection, especially if noone has accused me previously.

[Fate]

It is a deflection because you are probably indeed his scum buddy, from the posts I've read.

I ISO'd you as well. "Pman thinks of me as town, could be he has a read or is scum trying to cloud my judgement." In later posts, you continually refer to Pman as a town read to you.

The connection is there. The rest of the town will find it, it is just a matter of time. Like you said, we still have plenty of power roles.

I don't think it was scummy. You pointed out an obvious flaw in his argument (not knowing whether his kill was blocked or he was RB'd) that I didn't think of, so I switched back onto him.

You still haven't answered the question: Why would I get

off

the SK and

on

to my partner, Pman?

[Leafsnail]

It is a deflection because you are probably indeed his scum buddy, from the posts I've read.

So I should start every day responding to non existant accusations, then?

You still haven't answered the question: Why would I get off the SK and on to my partner, Pman?

Quite simply, it's best for at least some of the mafia not to be on a townwagon (and you would, knowing who's in the mafia, think of him as town). Casting a vote on your partner when there isn't much chance of him being lynched also helps with distancing. I believe that, with my point about the roleblocker, you suddenly realised he could be the Serial Killer, and thought it safe to move back onto him.

I'm not actually sure why you attached so much weight to this argument of mine. I threw it out in passing, and it actually wouldn't mean much (if his target had been protected by a doctor, he would've probably received no pm, and thus could think he had been roleblocked too). It was far from a damning indictment.

[Fate]

It was damning to me. I'm used to games where you are told if you are RB'd, and where you only find out you have been blocked if you wake up and your target is still alive.

You're right, your point did make me realize he was more likely a SK than a vig. That is why I moved back to him. Not because it was "safe" but because I'm town and want to lynch the bad guys.

[Leafsnail]

It was damning to me. I'm used to games where you are told if you are RB'd, and where you only find out you have been blocked if you wake up and your target is still alive.

...These two statements directly contradict each other.

You're right, your point did make me realize he was more likely a SK than a vig. That is why I moved back to him. Not because it was "safe" but because I'm town and want to lynch the bad guys.

Why SK though? Mafia can kill too, after all. The last part of this post is silly - a townie wouldn't feel the need to restate that. And if you thought him to be SK rather than mafia... why didn't you mention that at the time?

[Thesp]

We are in a pretty good situation. We probably only have one scum left, and we still have all our PRs. We just need to get rid of the last mafia member now.

With that in mind, Vote: Fate. Your interactions with pman were all odd, and I believe pman started the day on you as an attempt at distancing. Your explanation for the end of day 2 is bizarre, and your defensive of "Oh it can't have been a bus" sucks.

YAUS KILL

Vote: Fate.

diescumdie

[Thesp]

Wait -

Unvote: Fate.

Just in case we've got 2 scum left. But he's the guy I want to lynch.

[Leafsnail]

I think it's highly likely we have one scum left, especially with the "2 scum left" slip made by pman that Ythll picked up on. I guess he could be lying, but it would be a pretty pointless lie.

[Fate]

It was damning to me. I'm used to games where you are told if you are RB'd, and where you only find out you have been blocked if you wake up and your target is still alive.

...These two statements directly contradict each other.

No they don't.

Blocked=bounce off protect
RB'd= Roleblock.

Thesp comes in and quickvotes...hmmm

[Fate]

3 mafia 1 SK? Unlikely.

Since there's probably only 1 mafia left, lynching me is a good play.

I'm a vanilla townie, so we're not losing much. I don't know why the mafia NK'd Ythill who would've gone after me today, but I guess they just wanted to get rid of a good player and maybe frame me with it.

As long as all the PRs breadcrumbed in case of their death tonight, we should be ok. Hopefully the case on Leaf gets reviewed tommorow.

[Leafsnail]

Ridiculously early defeatism is ridiculous...

I mean, seriously. Moriarty, Sotty and CTD haven't even posted yet.

[Fate]

Doesn't change the fact that I look "scummy" apparently. And having no one else claim and lynching a Vanilla is the best bet.

Best that could happen is I'm scum,
Worse is you lose 1 VT and have a PR night killled (hope you breadcrumbed).

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, Fate. This absolutely stupid.

You don't even know what stances the other 3 players are going to take. Why aren't you even trying to get scum today? The only thing I can think of is that you're mafia hoping that an apparent willingness to die will get you off the hook.

[Fate]

Why aren't you even trying to get scum today?

I am. Look where my vote is. If the other three players agree with me, all the better.

[Leafsnail]

So why are you claiming and basically rolling over? Why aren't you bringing any real evidence against me or mounting a serious defence of yourself?

[Sotty7]

Okay so I just ISO'ed Pman and I am thinking that Leaf is probably town. This post by Pman seems like a big slip to me.

pman - There are only three people on him right now. Why so nervous?

4

It's not like any of us would let a lynch happen on Page 4, and he's nowhere close to a lynch.

Let's hope not. Why the bandwagon then?

Could you and leaf be scum together?

No. Excuse me for opposing a bandwagon on an innocent townie.

The last comment feels very sincere to me and I think that Pman was trying to get some town cred by going against the early push on Leaf. This is further strengthened in my opinion by the fact Pman didn't have any scum leads at this point in the game.

Pman - who do you think is scum?

right now, no one strikes me as particularly scummy. It is only page 4, about 24 hours out of the RVS. But, if I had to lynch one person right now, it would be ConfidAnon. Something strikes me a little bit odd about how he attacked leaf for asking a question, and then saying we needed a bandwagon.

I have no idea how he could call Leaf an “innocent townie”

I think Leaf's partner is Moriarty aka Kitten4U. For one, he doesn't commit to any reads of Kitten until this post here:

After re-reading the whole thread,

Vote: Kitten4u

Contradiction, and when called out, her defense seemed more about survival than helping the town.

Before this he had simply answered questions she had sent his way and that was it and these interactions only took up two posts. Yet if you look at period in the game where he throws his vote on Kitten you can see her wagon had suddenly built from almost nothing. This vote here just screams of scum desperate to get on the bus before it leaves the station to me. It is the 5th vote on with little to no original reasoning for it.

This is further compounded by his equally as quick leap off the wagon as soon as it was possible.

Okkkkkk, my gut now pings town on Kit for some reason. Leaving vote on for now but I still think that a Budja wagon would be good.

oh she's town, but I'll keep my vote on her anyway, because there's no other wagon to hop on.

You have been acting too weird, and too scummy for too long.

Unvote: Kitten4u, Vote: Ellibereth

This also feeds into my theory that scum would not have pushed a wagon from Kitten4U over to Elli if both players were townies. I think Pman jumped on Elli taking Kitten away from lynch-1 with the hope that others would follow. Pman being new to MS wouldn't know that a VT claim at lynch-1 isn't and shouldn't be enough to derail a lynch. I think he saw strong players like Ythill and Thesp leaning away from Kitten and decided to leap himself.

Vote: Moriarty

The paranoia in me looks at CTD's post 533 and thinks that Ythill was killed because CTD basically agreed with him across the board. CTD hasn't been around much but when he does post it comes across very logical so I could just be over reacting there.

Fate's reaction to Leaf's vote on him looks pretty bad. He seems all ready to throw the towel in and if there is only one scum left this defeatist attitude could fit the bill. I would like to see a much more comprehensive case on Leaf over one quote plucked from Pman's ISO. Especially considering that I think Leaf is town. Feels very OMGUSy at this point in time.

Thesp is a tricky one for me. He has been on the confid/Budja/Fate wagon pretty much since the game started so the vote (and unvote) isn't so much of a surprise. He was also pushing Pman early on but wasn't actually on his lynching wagon. I will have to go back and read over his ISO a little more again but I am leaning ever so slightly town.

[Fate]

Can't really post a defense of myself without trying to go back and explain the actions of

two

former town players.

I would be less wary of the connection between Leaf and pman if it were one sided, like you quoted Sotty. But look at Leaf's attitude towards him and you'll see that he leans "town" on pman as well.

If someone called me an innocent townie I'd definitely be more wary of them the rest of the game.

[Sotty7]

But you can build a case. You seemed to suggest that there was more to your Leaf vote that just that one quote you brought up. Show me what you are talking about and why you think that way.

Right now I think Leaf is probably town and you aren't convincing me to change that opinion.

[Leafsnail]

Fate, do you have any actual evidence against me, or are you going to keep using the buddying of a dead mafia member to me as evidence of my guilt?

Like, for instance, scummy behaviour? Anything?

[Fate]

I'm not the best "build a case" player. When someone flips scum, I ISO every player and see how each one is treated them.

ISO Leaf, Ctrl+F pman. You'll see what I mean.

As a contrast,

ISO Ellie, Crtl+F pman. Notice the difference?

[Leafsnail]

I strongly suggest ISOing Fate and doing a search for pman. Interesting how he randomly switches between attacking and defending him, isn't it?

[Fate]

I strongly sugest ISOing Fate and doing a search for pman. Interesting how he has pman on his scumlist the whole time, only unvoting him to vote Thesp, and later Wicked. Huh, looks like Leafsnail is misrepresenting me.

Interesting how Leafsnail ascertains my alignment based on only myself?

Nothing to say about the links Budja and ConfidAnon supposedly made to Pman?

[Thesp]

I'll re-look at everything tomorrow night. Also, is Moriarty147 still playing?

Mod, can we get an immediate prod/replacement?

[Leafsnail]

But why do you vote Thesp, Fate? Oh, right, for voting pman. Who you thought was scum. And then you switch to and from wickedestjr with little reason.

And Fate... although connections can contribute to a case, the basis should ALWAYS be a player's own behaviour. Budja also behaved in a scummy manner.