Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)

[Wdjat]

/confirm

[Wdjat]

vote: SerRose

Get an avatar.

Could everyone talk about previous experience with other players? I don't know any of you.

[Wdjat]

i mean since he said that it would make one palyer an easy target.. since they played together. he himself will be an easy target as well there for he has made himself better know to me.

Yeah, this still doesn't make sense. How does his comment on Lowell and the fact that he's played with him before combine to make him an easy target. And to whom is he an easy target?

[Wdjat]

SA/Lowell: I have a brilliant idea, if we do that for all combinations we have this solved in no time!

That was the plan, but now you just told the scum that's what we are doing.

FoS TDC

Changing the plan so the scum don't catch on: nessarae56, who ISN'T your scumbuddy?

[Wdjat]

he make's it easy to seem that he make's himself a terget.

Oh my god you are not explaining this.

[Wdjat]

Wdjat, do you have a scumbuddy?

No you have to mix up our strategy, remember? TDC has laid bare our "ask people about their scumbuddies" plan.

[Wdjat]

Sorry for what i said. I had no idea what i was talking about. So can we just start over. Thank you

Yeah, that's not how mafia works. You've got two posts below yours saying you don't make sense and one post just above. Explain the reasoning behind your conclusion that had everyone confused, even if you think it's bad now. You can tell us why you decided your reasoning was bad while you're at it.

[Wdjat]

ok i've got an avatar so unvote me please.

Why so worried about having a vote on you?

side note: mafiascum needs a smiley that's suspiciously raising an eyebrow or something.

[Wdjat]

Between don_johnson and semioldguy's posts, I am just so thrilled about playing with Lowell.* Given that dude's got a history of looking scummy, I don't think he's the right lynch today. But his meta definitely sounds like someone who can be scum and try to brush his scummy behavior off as Lowell being Lowell.


*Sarcasm, y'all.

[Wdjat]

Between don_johnson and semioldguy's posts, I am just so thrilled about playing with Lowell.* Given that dude's got a history of looking scummy, I don't think he's the right lynch today. But his meta definitely sounds like someone who can be scum and try to brush his scummy behavior off as Lowell being Lowell.


*Sarcasm, y'all.

So because he plays scummy, he can't be scum? That's just giving him a free pass to endgame because obviously scum won't kill him if he's scummy.

Dude you are just making shit up when you read my post. People with a history of looking scummy are bad day one lynches. When they look scummy it means less. We can lynch him tomorrow if there's more to back it up, but he's not the right lynch today.

[Wdjat]

But his meta definitely sounds like someone who can be scum and try to brush his scummy behavior off as Lowell being Lowell.

So? Do you want to lynch him tomorrow if he plays to his meta? If he doesn't?

Give him a day. don_johnson says he lurks, so let's try to prevent that.

Lowell, what do you think of the nessarae56 situation?

[Wdjat]

The initial Lowell conversation arose because I thought it might have been possible for TDC to have placed his vote on Lowell knowing that it might be easy to get votes in a game that appeared to have a lot of newer players (or accounts at least).

I don't think Lowell is a bad player.

So when you mentioned that Lowell would come under suspicion that had more to do with everyone else in the thread than it had to do with Lowell?

[Wdjat]

@ ConfidAnon: Any thoughts about the game?

Not that much has happened except for Nessarae, and I believe she was just a new player who felt overwhelmed, although it's awkward for me to judge my predecessor like htat.

Any thoughts on the read she had? I mean, there's nothing else to talk about in regards to nessarae56.

If you could lynch one person right now, who would it be and why?

[Wdjat]

unvote, vote serrose

and post 75 is hilarious.

You just put SerRose at L-1, you should say more than this. Do you have no thoughts on posts 76 through 83?

[Wdjat]

unvote

sorry wasn't paying attention, didn't realize that was L-1. Just felt like a good bandwagon.

Why do you feel like it was a good bandwagon? How did you decide it was a good wagon without counting the votes on it?

[Wdjat]

Wdjat: I take it you're fine with where the SerRose wagon is going, then?

That's right. I mean, look at his posts.

[Wdjat]

Wdjat: I take it you're fine with where the SerRose wagon is going, then?

That's right. I mean, look at his posts.

They're useless, I get that.

I was asking because I don't remember you expressing particular suspicion on him before so asking Lowell to supply some because he set the L-1 vote seemed a bit off.

I didn't. The original vote on him was random. I haven't seen anyone more deserving of a day 1 lynch yet. I asked Lowell because I wanted to engage him in the thread. It guess it kinda worked? His response is not what I expected and boy is it scummy.

Could everyone on the SerRose wagon (and Lowell) tell me where they see him on a 1-10 scale from "anti-town" to "scummy"?

His lurking is more anti-town than it is scummy. His second and fourth posts are pretty sketchy, though. That's a 50% hit rate, so I'll place him at a 5.

[Wdjat]

Just checking: You guys are all aware that his total post count and his post count in this game are identical, right?

Bleh, you'd think I would notice this after SerRose had no knowledge of how voting worked. I don't want to lynch him today.

unvote

Looking at the other folks in the game, I'm not too keen on the way Sleepless Assassin was leaning on ConfidAnon to speculate on nessarae56's alignment. Claiming this speculation wouldn't be awkward is pretty disingenuous. It wouldn't be hard to turn anything ConfidAnon said on the subject into a reason to vote for him. By this logic, Lowell's reason's for voting ConfidAnon aren't great either, but Lowell's been kinda all over the place. Sleepless Assassin's focus on a single bad piece of logic is scummier to me.

vote: Sleepless Assassin

[Wdjat]

@wdjat
Why is focusing on single piece of bad logic scummier to you than Lowell's being all over the place? If anything, I find the tunneling on bad logic not to be a tell if the poster does not see the bad logic behind his line of inquiry and currently get a feeling of disinterested town from Sleepless Assassin.

Part of the Sleepless Assassin over Lowell vote has to do with the context of Lowell's play and what other people have said about him. His posting style is consistent with someone who doesn't post often enough and doesn't read closely enough when he does post, so him being all over the place means less to me coming from him.

Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him. By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town. I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.

[Wdjat]

Looking at the other folks in the game, I'm not too keen on the way Sleepless Assassin was leaning on ConfidAnon to speculate on nessarae56's alignment. Claiming this speculation wouldn't be awkward is pretty disingenuous. It wouldn't be hard to turn anything ConfidAnon said on the subject into a reason to vote for him. By this logic, Lowell's reason's for voting ConfidAnon aren't great either, but Lowell's been kinda all over the place.

Sleepless Assassin's focus on a single bad piece of logic is scummier to me.

vote: Sleepless Assassin

(Bolding mine) Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.

Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?

[Wdjat]

Apologies of the absence. It's been resolved and I am trying to catch up now. I do need to get to sleep soon, but I will definitely be posting thoughts in the morning.

[Wdjat]

Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him. By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town. I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.

I would probably have made that post had it not already been there. CA's awkwardness towards his former self was certainly good enough to poke into at that early point.

I mean there's only so much to be about nessarae56's play. And this post in particular reads like someone who already knows what conclusion they want to draw.

[Wdjat]

Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him.

Oh, no, confusion isn't the case on Nessa at all. Read up in this post and maybe you'll see what I was looking at.

And if you want to call scummy actions excuses, then yes, I'll find excuses to lynch anyone who is scummy.

Man, I saw nessarae56 as mostly nonsensical. That pressure from me was me trying to be nice. I promise. I don't share your scum read on her.

By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town.

He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.

He did eventually. It looks like it was a matter of asking the right way, maybe. Now the fact that he immediately started talking about nessarae56's alignment could be telling. I'll give you that, but your line of questioning wasn't "Why are you so worried about your alignment that you mention it first thing?" It was "Why don't you do that awkward thing that is clearly awkward and damning to you?"

I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.

I don't think my logic is flawed at all.

This was pretty clear to me so I'm not sure how it wasn't to you. Maybe flawed logic is not the term? Your response to it reads like willful ignorance.

Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?

Nothing. I didn't ask him to. Someone else did and his response caught my eye.

So your goal in this post was not to get ConfidAnon to talk about it?

[Wdjat]

Wdjat is currently the next best lynch after SerRose in my opinion.

Care to elaborate on this now?

For reasons previously stated. Additionally post 118 seems disingenuous to me. It makes little sense to me that wdjat is stamping the okay for wanting anti-town players for living until tomorrow. His not wanting to lynch SerRose or Lowell based on what I feel are likely horrible reasons. It looks to me like he is trying to keep some easy targets alive regardless of whether they are scummy or not. He doesn't give a suitable explanation for why they might be town or that we shouldn't lynch them.

Man I sure did. SerRose has no history, but he also seems to have no clue so I value scumtells from him lower.

[Wdjat]

Gah. Wow. I should probably reread this thread . . . I haven't really felt invested in this game yet, and I need to get my head back into the game. It will probably happen tomorrow night.

Wow. This is a pretty sketchy post.

[Wdjat]

Firstly, @Bio Hazard: is a non-plussed face. There is no suspicion there.


But we're here to talk about suspicions. Bio Hazard's case against Dry-fit is pretty lame, but I think this is more telling about Bio Hazard than it is about dry-fit. That last "agree to disagree" comment was pretty much the worst.

I'm not too happy with the was semioldguy is jumping to Dry-fit's defense either. Either he's falling prey to some buddying or he's doing some buddying of his own. I suspect it's the former.

Given Bio Hazard's latest posts, I'll agree to him as the best lynch right now. I want Lowell to get his opinions in thread before the hammer falls, though.

[Wdjat]

But we're here to talk about suspicions. Bio Hazard's case against Dry-fit is pretty lame, but I think this is more telling about Bio Hazard than it is about dry-fit. That last "agree to disagree" comment was pretty much the worst.

I'm just saying we disagree about that "tell" and a huge theory debate probably isn't going to help anyone here.

It seems to me like this was important to your read on Dry-fit. You don't want to distract us with that?

I'm not too happy with the was semioldguy is jumping to Dry-fit's defense either. Either he's falling prey to some buddying or he's doing some buddying of his own. I suspect it's the former.

Why's that?

Because I think Dry-fit is scummier than semioldguy?

Given Bio Hazard's latest posts, I'll agree to him as the best lynch right now. I want Lowell to get his opinions in thread before the hammer falls, though.

I didn't see you express much suspicion of my replacee. A couple posts is enough for a lynch for you?

I mean, your first posts were pretty freakin bad.

[Wdjat]

i guess what's odd to me is that wdjat is implying that dry-fit might be scum with bio,

and

that dry-fit might be scum with you(though he clearly favors scum with bio). it seems like the speculation of a player who thinks dry-fit is scum, and yet votes elsewhere(popular bandwagon). the post implies(imo) that wdjat has a stronger scum read on dry than on bio(though he obviously attempts to say different.) my contention here would be that this would be an awfully convenient distancing ploy for a dry-fit/wdjat scum team. i know i know, scum teams on day 1 is just speculation, but the behavior seems odd as well coming from a townie. if bio flips town, wdjat clears himself of responsibility for pursuing dry(arguably his stronger scum read) based on his pairing. honestly it makes me

not

want to lynch bio. i'll have to think on this a bit more...

My definition of buddying implies people of opposing alignments. That is, you get into someone's good graces to deferring to them or defending them when they don't need it to win them over to your side. So I do not think that a Dry-fit/semioldguy team is a possibility.

[Wdjat]

That makes me feel a little bit more town about you and I am actually surprised no one else mentioned it prior to now.

This response kinda skeeves me out, especially in the context of the buddying comment I made earlier.

[Wdjat]

Those hemming and hawing over a lynch here just need to step up and make it happen. No one looks good by claiming how conflicted they are about it.

This one's for you, man.

vote: Bio Hazard

[Wdjat]

Don_Johnson, is Regfan your scumbuddy?

Regfan, is Don_Johnson your scumbuddy?

:/

[Wdjat]

Man, I am not liking the way Regfan starts out this day. The way he leans on his town read of semioldguy looks sketchy and the way he's tunneling on Dry-fit looks even worse. The whole outing power roles could be dismissed as being eager, but this wording really bugs me:

Yes, I'm used to EpicMafia.com where power-roles come out fairly early, share their information and

help us catch the mafia.

It's drawing this line in the sand where power roles that don't expose themselves are not helping the town.

[Wdjat]

So you're saying that myself getting a town read on semi the guy who was helping us the most and when seeing him die being shocked that the jailer didn't jail him is scummy? I'd like you to elaborate on how you can even believe this.

It's sketchy for the same reasons why Dry-fit having his town read on Bio Hazard is sketchy. You're trying to get town cred by showing off how right you were about your town read on a dead player. And speaking of Dry-fit's town read on Bio Hazard, I don't see that given his last post before the lynch where he calls Bio Hazard one of his top suspects.

Yes, I do have a sense of tunnel vision on against Dry, but that is because I'm quite confident in him being mafia.

What I don't get is how you were able to be so confident at the start of the day today. Dry-fit was pretty much absent around the time of the lynch. To talk about how "haven't seen anything to disprove my suspicions" in your first post when there's nothing at all to is pretty disingenuous.

If you take a look at all my points about the power-roles, they are all very valid. The best way to proceed today would be if our tracker does have a guilty, and how does suggesting they come out if they have one be suspicious. It's the best course of action, I'm not here saying 'TRACKER CLAIM, TRACKER WHERE ARE YOU'. I'm simply stating under what circumstances I believe it is in our best interest for the tracker to claim. If you wish to refute these circumstances, I would love to hear it otherwise I'd like you to explain yourself in regards to how my past-experience at epic mafia has anything to do with 'not helping the town'.

This isn't about whether or not the things you said are right. Yes, guilty results should be claimed. You're saying obvious things about power roles and trying to get them to claim. The post I quoted really jumps out at me because you connect early claims to finding mafia, implying that not claiming is anti-town. Do you see what I'm saying here? Does anyone?

[Wdjat]

wdjat: reads on anyone else?

Sleepless Assassin's play today isn't giving me warm fuzzy feelings. It reads to me like he's trying to do enough to look like he's participating, but not really committing to the stuff he's saying.

My gut says Lowell is town. His play play is not that great, but it reads to me like a decent town player trapped in the body of a crappy player.

I've got a town read on Dry-Fit based mostly on Regfan's attack. His posts are a pretty null read to me.

[Wdjat]

gut town read on Lowell makes no sense.

So do you see him as necessarily anti-town in the way he's acting?

[Wdjat]

(winks at wdjat)...

That's hardly an answer to my question. The posts I see from him, even setting aside the big post he just made, look like he's actually trying to pay attention and is scumhunting when he does. I don't see him as scum making such a big production of needing to catch up.

[Wdjat]

I get very strong townvibes from

assassin

and

TDC

. The former is harder to explain, but for some reason his total lack of defensiveness impresses me. TDC did well at the end of D1.

I don't get that read on Sleepless Assassin at all. Besides having that slap fight with don_johnson and defending that one thing he called ConfidAnon out on, I haven't seen him do anything.

[Wdjat]

306 is wierd. i need to look at that a bit more. you seem to be condeming reg for something dry-fit did as well while actually exhonorating dry-fit from actually doing it. this game is confusing me. i think a reread is in order.

I'm using the same line of reasoning he used when he called Dry-fit scummy. The difference between the two cases is that he actually did it and Dry-fit didn't.

[Wdjat]

Man, I am not a fan of don_johnson and Sleepless Assassin right now. Both of them leaning on the Regfan lynch based purely on momentum is really scummy. I mean, I get how the votes got there in the first place but the reasoning their both using to encourage that fourth vote. Jeez...

[Wdjat]

Out of lunch break. I should have more to say this evening.

[Wdjat]

Both of them leaning on the Regfan lynch based

purely on momentum

is really scummy. I mean, I get how the votes got there in the first place but the reasoning their both using to encourage that fourth vote.

noones "encouraging" a fourth vote. i explicitly asked that a hammer vote be well explained. i have also suggested to the players who are not happy with this wagon to feel free to work on getting other ones started. not sure what the bolded is supposed to mean. i believe we both independently stated that we don't think moving is a good idea in order to protect town power roles. do you disagree? if so, why?

So you're going to talk about what we're going to do after Regfan flips town but claim that you're not encouraging a fourth vote? Really? As for the momentum comment, you and Sleepless Assassin are talking about the Regfan lynch like it's an inevitably since he's at L-1.

So, you're saying, you pretty much refuse to change your vote right now. Instead you'd rather just keep the lynch going and then 'Read whats happened when I flip town'? That seems unproductive.

you seem to be heaping the responsibility of "productiveness" solely on me. TDC and wdjat are the ones with an oppurtunity to shift the focus of the day's activities. i do not have a solid reason at this point to move off the wagon of a claimed vanilla whose alignment is questionable.

And this is another example of the momentum thing I'm talking about. This "well I've done my part, you take care of the rest" attitude.

[Wdjat]

Generally, when a wagon stalls, yet no one posts to refute it, and then the game dies for a few days, I assume that wagon is a good one being derailed by scum hoping to inertia themselves out of a teammate's lynch. I'll assume that's what's happening here. Dry-fit is the right play.

Given this read, why do you think that Dry-fit is the correct lynch? Wouldn't the situation you're talking about imply that Regfan is found scum?