Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[elvis_knits]

If you can't explain what the tell is, and I can't decide for myself, then it is useless to me.

[Iecerint]

Are you TRYING to antagonize me in a fashion that cannot in any fashion be interpreted as pro-town?

[iLord]

Are you TRYING to antagonize me in a fashion that cannot in any fashion be interpreted as pro-town?

What E_K is saying there is completely true. How else do you expect us to treat your "secret tells?" In fact, there's very little point in babbling about it until you can actually talk about it. Quite frankly, the rest of us just don't care.

[Ellibereth]

Yerk vs. Elvis is town vs. town. Ierc, just drop the secret scumtell stuff and never mention it again unless you decided to make it not-secret kthx.
Let's not get sidetracked and focus on LurkerscumNicodemus please.

[Iecerint]

Neither requires a genius to figure them out.

I agree that they're a side-show relative to Nicky, but the fact that Nicky is absent and only has about 8 posts, which have all been analyzed to death, indicates that there's little left there atm IMO, except request a prod, unless someone has a good reason for Nicky being town or whatever.

[Sajin]

Elli, you're in the same boat as Ani if CSL dies from a murder tonight. As long as you promise not to go Murderer (And based on your prior attitude, I seriously doubt that you will still attempt to go Murderer) and take confirmable insanities from now on out, you just as confirmed town as he is.

False.

Ah Crap.
I'm taking twitch after offing CSL. Any objections?

Yes. Explain to me how you will not rob the grave as a free action to take the murderer insanity? If you can explain that one to me, then your welcome to it.

***

I will not sanction any murders unless its done by our grave robber (who we will have to kill) or later on by someone who has been verified to have low insanity count. You will be confirmed not cult though. (well, very likely anyways)

I will not sanction anyone going too high to quickly with insanities either publicly or privately with the exception of the grave robber. Forcing us to lynch you is not pro town behavior and I cannot see how you would think that way as any alignment honestly.

In fact, displaying evidence of the "confirmable insanities" is likely evidence of someone going FAR down the murderer road. I would prefer no one took those early....it will be easy to catch people with higher insanity counts that way (its extremely hard to lie about having twitchy or not for instance and its very easy to test someone for if they have that for instance) Every insanity better be explainable as I will hold you accountable. And my suspicions will rise concerning those who take "confirmable insanities" tonight. Thats a warning for all of you prospective murderers out there.

I like ILord's case on Nico, its solid. Phate, my reason for not joining the Nico wagon was due to not liking some of the wagonees. And I think I have some of the more condensed posts in this thread, no need to lecture.

Going to a party.....don't make me come back to find more anti town plans that I have to swat down again.

[Iecerint]

Investigators cannot gain more than one Insanity per night as a result of this action [Pass Fetish].

I misremembered this as "Investigators can receive no more than 1 insanity per night." <_<

As such, Sajin's point is valid. We could ask Ani (or whichever graverobber) to indicate whether she collected any items from the grave. If she did, no other graverobbing occurred, and Elli is safe. This is subvertable by Nicky (or whomever) having not collected an item N0 and/or by cult also robbing the grave, but this still makes cult pick up an extra insanity, so it's worth it. We'll still possibly need to think about killing Elli on or by D4 or so, but that depends on other events that happen in the mean time.

[Wickedestjr]

I am willing to support Elli's plan but I need to think it over a bit longer. There is a problem though. What about the cultist's kills? This could ruin the plan. Has anybody taken that into account, or am I missing something?

Also, if we were to do the plan, I think we should wait a little while to actually pick the killers. This is because most of the discussion has been regarding the theme. I am hardly going to get a good read off of players from that kind of discussion. I will get stronger reads once we do lots of scumhunting first.

[VP Baltar]

Hey, did you know that CSL, Sarag, dramonic, Drench, Hayker, and startransmission are all in this game?

Fun fact of the day.

[Iecerint]

The Mod has confirmed that the two kill types will have distinct flavors. The Cult would not be able to Ritual their stalkee targets to create the appearance that they had Murdered them AFAIK.

The plan is nonetheless kinda gimped because:

1. Sajin believes cult may have picked up rez kits N0 and
2. Even if they did not, they can rob grave for free insanity to claim stalk while they grab them N1 and
3. Then they can rez kit stalkees to give the appearance that the stalker is cult who can't murder. This could screw up at least a few town->cult match-ups.

[iLord]

Yes. Explain to me how you will not rob the grave as a free action to take the murderer insanity? If you can explain that one to me, then your welcome to it.

Yeah, I'm proven wrong again .

Regardless, why do you believe that Elli still will want to go Murderer? He's not dumb - he knows if he goes Murderer he's probably going to lose.

As it stands, I don't believe Elli's position is any different from any other player's. Him stalking last night merely indicated that he had intended originally to go Murderer, but I daresay that now he has definitely reconsidered going down that path.

I agree that no more people should take Stalk unless the town agrees to it, but I see no point in not taking advantage of Elli's stalk to kill lurkerCSL.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, did you know that CSL, Sarag, dramonic, Drench, Hayker, and startransmission are all in this game?

Fun fact of the day.

And I think Sarag, dramonic and drench were all in stars alligned 1, which should make them more motivated to play this game, and more helpful with strategy, etc.

[Iecerint]

Hayker never posted anything useful in Kingdom Hearts mafia as town. It was a godsend when he was NK'd. So his level of involvement doesn't necessarily indicate anything. I think it's best to mentally link him with Adel until he lurks enough that we can replace him.

The others are probably too busy daytalking to bother with the thread.

[animorpherv1]

@Iecerint, I'm a he. And point 2 is only semi-valid as if someone else robs the rave, then I'll get a message saying I can't rob it.

@Ellit, I'm fine with your Insanity choice, if anyone will let you kill CSL.

[Iecerint]

Target: Any Dead player.
Effects: The alignment of the Dead player is publicly revealed the next Day. If you are the only player to target them, you will receive all of their equipment (Resuscitation Kits provided you are not Bloody, Forensic Kits and/or Occult Books) if they had any.
Prerequisites: None.
Side Effects: You gain an Insanity. Your target turns to Dust.
Free Action: You may choose Rob Grave and another Night Action.

As I read it, multiple grave robs will mean that the alignment of the player is still revealed, but no one receives any of the equipment. Correct me if I am mistaken. Also, even if I'm mistaken, your receiving that sort of message would appear equivalent to the case where you don't pick up the equipment, except that it's even better, because it can't be confounded by Nicky/whoever having done something other than Search.

And that's what you get for having that sort of avatar.

[Nicodemus]

This is the main case against me. Answers to the case are in

bold

.

Case against Nicodemus, through notable posts:

*raises eyebrows at ani*

That seems like a really strange strategy to me, and it doesn't strike me as all that pro-town either. Are there any actions that cult could take night one that would gain them an insanity besides launder that ani could be covering up for? I don't care for your appeal to "badness" either.

Would it be worth testing Ani's claim to ask him to try to hammer at the end of today?

The first portion kicks off with tentative language - Ani had just claimed to have laundered and Nico states that it "seems like a strange strategy," as if it were only slightly unconventional. See E_K's post #76 to see what a townie reaction would look like - a townie would be like "Oh, what you did there was kind of weird," but rather more along the lines of "What the hell were you thinking?"

You're right, I was tentative, because I wasn't sure if laundering was a smart action for town to make, or not. This is by far the most complex game of mafia I've ever played (or even heard of) and I was struggling, as evidenced by my later posts and current state of mind, to wrap my head around all the intricacies of the set-up. Just because someone admitted to laundering N0 does not put him anywhere close to being scum in my book, it only opens the possibility that he could be.

The next portion with trying to figure out why possibly Ani could be lying is appropriate, but his reluctance to call Ani scummy is most suspect.

Because, once again, I didn't know if laundering or some other N0 action would qualify him as scum. I was just listing the possibilities as I saw them, and hoping for feedback before making up my mind.

His final question is scummy as well - a townie would most definitely believe that it is completely necessary to test Ani's claim. I can't imagine a townie thinking "Wow, this guy's probably lying. Should we test his claim?"

I guess I did phrase this wrong, but only because I didn't want to be accused of being "too eager" or anything like that. I know some people can lead town effortlessly (VP, DGB, Adel, etc.) but I am definitely not one of them, and it always makes me feel more confident when I get some backing for my ideas. Once again, I was throwing the idea out there as a possibility, but trying to stay away from being too overconfident in my reads and ideas.

Lying about your night actions + preparing to murder a player N1 = murderer in the making/cultist fake claiming night actions ~ Vote: animorpherv1

At this point, Nico has decided that its safe to jump on the Ani wagon. His stated reasoning, however, betrays his insecurity. The two items on the left side of the equal sign very neatly indicates that Ani was probably a murder in the making, but nowhere does he indicate the reasons why Ani could be a cultist false claiming. In fact, Nico does not even make mention of the debate on whether a Cultist could be trying to explain future insanities, nor the debate on whether a daytalking Cultist group would let Ani give such a poor excuse (Admittedly, this could be excused by the speed the thread was growing and the fact he probably didn't check the thread during that debate, but this post was not too late to voice his thoughts on its likelihood). He is blatantly just throwing that part into there.

What this all means is that Nico is compiling reasons to jump on the Ani wagon, but he does not actually believe/follow the used reasons.

*Sigh* I guess I'm just going to have to chalk this up to my usual obscure posting style. I'm trying to get better at posting snappy, simple statements that are easily read and understood, but I'm nowhere close to that right now. The "lying about your night actions" was supposed to cover the cult aspect of my accusation as well - If he admitted to lying about laundering, who's to say he's not lying now about stalking - but obviously it didn't come out that way. I was now confident in voting for Ani because he had admitted to lying, and I am of the school that liars = scum, as townies have nothing to hide. I wasn't ready to lynch Ani when I thought he had laundered - it was stupid, and anti-town, but not scummy - but when he came out with the lie I saw the course of action clearly.

If Adel's strategy is going to increase our chances of winning significantly, then I support it, although to be honest I have no idea what the strategy actually is

The problem with this post was pointed out by a lot of other players - not only does it indicate the obvious (Barring SlySly arguments), it also indicates no intention to actually understand the plan (Or a statement that he is not going to attempt it). Actually, this is really more laziness however, than scumminess, since I'd reckon that the Cultists would be pretty interested in figuring out this plan that supposedly screws them over.

I am always in favor of strategies that increase the town's chance of winning. At that point Adel was only asking for a support/don't support post, and so I wanted to get my stance out there. I figured that there would be plenty of discussion about the details of the strategy after we decided to implement it, and I would be able to figure out what was going on then.

Unvote: ani

My biggest concern with ani was that he was lying about his insanity to allow him to participate in the ritual tonight with no apparent change in insanity count. Now that this has been alleviated I see no reason to vote him as he is verified town.

@Nicodemus

-- what did you think was the point of claiming noises? (Since you didn't seem to understand what exactly makes noise and what does not).

To see who was warded/stalked/fetish'd last night. I just didn't remember that warding causes noise for yourself as well as your target.

I still support any strategy that will increase town's chance of winning. I also support the town/not town list that Elli has submitted (with one obvious exception ).

@Elli: why isn't sly on your list?

The first part of this post is fairly strong evidence that Nico is scum. Not only does he feel the need to excuse his jumping off of Ani's wagon, he also states that his biggest worry is that Ani was faking his Insanity in order to preemptively excuse future insanities.

Once again, *sigh*. I knew that making an explanation post could be viewed as scummy, but I thought that if I unvoted with no explanation at all then I would get called out for that. In the end I just decided that more information = good, so I went ahead and put my justification for unvoting. And yes, Ani faking an insanity was my biggest concern. The fact that Ani had already proved himself capable of lying made me very suspicious of the possibility of him lying again to cover for future insanity gains. And, if he wasn't cult, then we were still getting rid of a lying, would-be murderer. When it was proved that he did have the insanity, and he was looking less and less likely to go murderer, however, I unvoted.

If you've been reading this case, you'll see that this is inconsistent on two fronts. First of all, as pointed out in the analysis of #153, Nico did not even participate in the discussions, nor mention it in his post accusing Ani of being either a wannabe Murderer or a Cultist. Suddenly here it has became his primary worry - he's just using this argument to formulate an excuse he believes is necessary to cover his dropping off the wagon.

Answered above

Second of all, he noted here that his concern was alleviated by testing Ani's claim. Yet, as we noted in the first analyzed post, Nicodemus's attitude towards testing Ani was most peculiar -

Nico earlier stated that he was not even sure whether or not the test that he now claims to have mitigated his concerns was necessary!

Also answered above

To finish this analysis, Nico continues to avoid discussing any specifics on the plan, although this time its proven not be just laziness as he follows this statement with one voicing agreement with the lists proposed by Elli. In order to agree to the lists, Nico must've understood the plan (Which was basically one list alive, another dead), and is purposely avoiding discussing specifics, preferring to voice general, safe agreement.

Mostly answered above. I just wanted to get my general support of breaking/advantage-bringing strategies out there, so that if we decided to move forward with them I could then start to understand the specifics. This time, though, I did understand the bare bones of the plan (have the town group stalk and kill the questionable group), so I felt confident in voicing my agreement with those lists as well.

Also, I guess I'll apologize to everyone for my "lurking" this weekend, although I'm not too sure how not posting friday or saturday night is equivalent to lurking. But, since that seems to be another point against me, I'll throw it out there and promise to be much more involved with this game from here on out.

Re-reading now to post something relevant to the game and not just a defense of myself.

[animorpherv1]

Target: Any Dead player.
Effects: The alignment of the Dead player is publicly revealed the next Day. If you are the only player to target them, you will receive all of their equipment (Resuscitation Kits provided you are not Bloody, Forensic Kits and/or Occult Books) if they had any.
Prerequisites: None.
Side Effects: You gain an Insanity. Your target turns to Dust.
Free Action: You may choose Rob Grave and another Night Action.

As I read it, multiple grave robs will mean that the alignment of the player is still revealed, but no one receives any of the equipment. Correct me if I am mistaken. Also, even if I'm mistaken, your receiving that sort of message would appear equivalent to the case where you don't pick up the equipment, except that it's even better, because it can't be confounded by Nicky/whoever having done something other than Search.

And that's what you get for having that sort of avatar.

That'swhat I get for assuming. And the avatar come off March 4th, or when I can find a decent avy.

[Hayker]

I just reached the halfway mark, I'm workin guys

[animorpherv1]

I just reached the halfway mark, I'm workin guys

If it takes me 40 minutes to read 6 pages you can read the thread in a day.

[Katy]

Welcome, Katy. I like you're creepy avatar.

Thank you. This cult seems pretty scary so I thought I'd go on the offensive with a creepy-ass kid. Even Cthulhu might be unnerved by that.

My perception of events about Adel replacing out was/is that town had broken the game and

scum were whiny about it and consequently resorting to childish techniques like modkilling.

I had thought of this possibility as well. From how I read it, there was never any indication that the game was broken. The mods didn't actually take any action and Percy indicated that the game wasn't broken. While I thought the discussion was relevant prior to that, continuing to claim it broke the game after the mod had interjected seemed over the top to me.

I have modded some games and I have one player in particular who has declared a game of mine broken two separate times when it actually wasn't, he just didn't have full information. Both times he was scum who thought he was going to lose because of town "breaking" the game. Both times, the game was not broken and town ended up winning.

However, I don't know SlySly and my read on his posting was that this is probably his personality, and as such I can't tell whether it is a scumtell or just him being fairly rigid. The post he made requesting someone not to call him a certain word seems to square with his reaction being an honest one.

As between the two, I actually took more notice of Adel's trying to throw a wrench in town trying to organize information. It's one thing to be cautious about town giving out info before a consensus is reached on what info will be given and how, but Adel's reaction to people claiming noise seemed possibly designed to scare town out of getting organized and trying to share info to make a plan. Even his initial reluctance I could accept but this sequence of posts bothers me:

fuck it, I'll play it your way,

the cult is already down with it so the rest of us sheeple should go along with it.

i heard a noise, and I think it is retarded to be claiming, and people shouldn't be saying if they warded or not, but I didn't ward.

And then two posts later:

I'm not claiming day 2.

He acquiesces and then immediately digs his heels in and says "Actually, no." It's one thing to disagree and argue against a plan of action, it's another thing to refuse to go along with it even if there's a consensus.

I think this is one of those games where town is going to need to be coordinated and work together. Analyzing behavior will only get us so far, but I think we must also use the mechanics to try and gain information as well.

As far as Nicodemus goes, I'm not sure what to think. I don't see anything super scummy in his posts, but nor do I see anything super townie. I do think the one post that was picked out as scummy was certainly anti-town at best and his response (I decided to support it and then I could see if it was a good plan

after we decided to do it

), is nonsensical at best. While I agree that it looks more lazy, I think it could just as easily be lazy scum as lazy town, just trying to go with the flow.

Lastly, can someone who played the first game maybe briefly summarize what the successful strategy for night actions was, or what the philosophy behind choosing is? All I have is my info on what Seacore did night one and the rules in the OP and while I'm sure I can use that info to come up with my approach, if anyone could add to my knowledge a bit that would be great too.

[dramonic]

Hey, did you know that CSL, Sarag, dramonic, Drench, Hayker, and startransmission are all in this game?

Fun fact of the day.

hey, did you know you have only 3 more posts than I do?

Don't complain about my activity level

[Katy]

I just noticed a typo in my last post:

[quote]Both times, the game was not broken and

scum

ended up winning.

[Clank]

I think your 3rd quote may be a cult slip

~ani

If I get anyone who doesn't want me to post in this, I'm switching back to ani soon.

[Iecerint]

I would prefer you post on the same account if possible, even if that's a cute avatar. It simplifies iso reads.

[animorpherv1]

I would prefer you post on the same account if possible, even if that's a cute avatar. It simplifies iso reads.

will do.