Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[kyle99]

Well, Kyle, if you had suggested Lowell as a good lynch target for today then I would have done exactly the same thing. I'm just trying to hurry up and get some information - there are only a few days left before deadline.

Yes, call me scummy if you like. But that's the fact - I really don't have any idea of who I should be voting for, at this moment in time.

Here's a thought. Instead of just blindly following the last person to post in the thread, you should, you know, read the thread and use the posts to make an objective decision about who's scum. Just a thought.

[Sakako]

Ahem. Who I should be voting for = who is scum.

And since you're pretty much in the clear, Monkey, I'm ruling you out. Thus, I have no idea who is scum = I have no idea who I should be voting for.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ahem.

Who I should be voting for = who is scum.

And since you're pretty much in the clear, Monkey, I'm ruling you out. Thus, I have no idea who is scum = I have no idea who I should be voting for.

I would hope so.

[Sakako]

Well, Kyle, if you had suggested Lowell as a good lynch target for today then I would have done exactly the same thing. I'm just trying to hurry up and get some information - there are only a few days left before deadline.

Yes, call me scummy if you like. But that's the fact - I really don't have any idea of who I should be voting for, at this moment in time.

Here's a thought. Instead of just blindly following the last person to post in the thread, you should, you know, read the thread and use the posts to make an objective decision about who's scum. Just a thought.

In addition, I actually had done that, and had found Monkey to be the one whom I wanted to lynch. However that has become impossible now, so I'm voting for Neto. Besides, Nikanor hasn't seemed particularly scummy in the past to me, so I trust his vote. Plus his reasoning is quite sound.

Like I said. I'll have more to say on day 2. But that's a while away. So just chill out.

[xRECKONERx]

Wow. My earlier post didn't go through.

the tl;dr version of it: kyle-wagon is still viable. I think now I'd prefer a Netopalis wagon to a Sakako wagon. MM's claim is slightly unbelievable but I'm willing to give him a night or two to work things out.

[Espeonage]

Ok then. I think i missed the case on Neto. Could someone point that out for me?

Sakako's logic is sound. I still see him as a maths wizz newb-town.

[Lowell]

Why, when asked to claim, did monkey first perform a big song and dance about how everyone was going to vote for him anyway, so what's the point? When I have a powerrole I can't

wait

to claim, and I

certainly

wouldn't try to piss people off with the woe-is-me sympathy card when I was already at L-1.

I find monkey's actions VERY inconsistent with normal powerrole play. Some people are eager to be duped, and it makes me wonder why. Monkey is certainly scum.

[Sakako]

Why, when asked to claim, did monkey first perform a big song and dance about how everyone was going to vote for him anyway, so what's the point?

I made this exact same case, if you'll notice. I am going to give him another chance because it's mathematically viable - but we will get information from this night, if not from this day. It's a win-win situation.

[Netopalis]

Ok then. I think i missed the case on Neto. Could someone point that out for me?

This. Also, the debate over voting for Monkey is rather silly. I was a bit concerned at first, but there's really no point to it, honestly. You just don't lynch a claimed PR until you give them a few nights to see what happens. Yeah, his claim is somewhat unbelievable...but it is within the limits of normality set out by the survey.

[Lowell]

unvote

Ugh. Monkey-scum given a "few days" to come up with results is going to confuse the shit out of anything else we try to accomplish, but whatever.

[Espeonage]

@ Neto: Were you saying there is no case?

[Nikanor]

Yeah, his claim is somewhat unbelievable...but it is within the limits of normality set out by the survey.

I doubt Mafia Doublevoter is on that survey, but I've seen one of those in a mini normal before. I shouldn't have to tell you this Neto, but living by the survey is just as bad as living by the wiki.

[Netopalis]

Sure, you can sometimes see things outside the survey, but if it's in the survey, it means that it's generally accepted as within the limits of normal. Therefore, a new mod wouldn't raise eyebrows by putting it in her game.

Espeonage: There *was* a case, but I don't feel that we can continue to press after the roleclaim, at least not until we wait a night or two to see what happens with him.

[Nikanor]

Therefore, a new mod wouldn't raise eyebrows by putting it in her game.

How does this have anything to do with the game we're playing now?

[Netopalis]

I originally thought that the JOAT claim was a bit too out there to be considered for a normal game. However, I wasn't concerned after checking the survey thing. That's all I'm going on about is the likelihood of the role appearing in a normal game.

[AlmasterGM]

FAKE CLAIM IS FAKE.

I understand the whole math argument, but it only seems advantageous if we can PROVE Monkey's alignment later. Otherwise, like Sakko himself admits, the logic applies to anyone in the game. How precisely do we determine the legitimacy of Monkey's claim? Remember, it has to be guaranteed proof; otherwise, the math reduces to approximately 50/50 odds, in which case I would be totally fine with lynching Monkey because I think he's lying scum.

How do we prove it?

[Nikanor]

Tracker.

[Espeonage]

If there is a JOAT who is not named monkey then let them speak.

[Netopalis]

Espeonage: There isn't another JOAT. The rarity of the role almost guarantees that.

[Espeonage]

I am saying that if Monkey fake claimed then there could be a real JOAT

[Netopalis]

Incredibly unlikely. If it were a cop or a doc or even a tracker, sure, but JOAT...I doubt it.

[xRECKONERx]

That's why JOAT is such a good fake-claim for Monkeyscum. In fact, I

never

vote for a un-CC'd power role on D1... but let's look at the facts here:

1) Monkey was misrepping hardcore for the majority of the day and was only attacking viable alternatives to his lynch wagon instead of scumhunting.

2) AtE: "You guys are gonna lynch me anyway what's the point bawwwwwwwwww"

3) His claim is almost a sure-fire un-CC'd claim because of how rare it is.

4) As far as scum fake-claims go, this one is as safe as you can get.
4a) Track: Pull the "I tracked my scumbuddy" bluff, or just wait until like N4 to use this one so you're already nearly at the endgame by then
4b) Investigate: Claim innocent on any random townie.
4c) Protect: Almost impossible to screw up a fake protection... how is anyone gonna know?
4d) Watch: Can just claim roleblocked, or you can claim nobody visited someone and hope for the best.

Summary: Monkey was acting scummy all day, used AtE when faced with his claim, then finally claimed a role that is both rare (and therefore unlikely to have a counterclaim) and with enough abilities to where he can use Investigate and Protect to glide by on D2 and D3, then bullshit his way through D4 and D5 with the track/watch claims.

I searched around, and while Netopolis is my 2nd/3rd choice, neither he nor kyle99 are nearly as scummy in iso as MonkeyMan. I've lynched him as scum before, and I'd like to do it again, and I'm not going to let a well-crafted fake claim scare me off.

Vote: MonkeyMan

[Netopalis]

Hmm...Good points as well from Reckoner. I really can't decide here. I'm going to read over Monkey in isolation again, then come back and post my thoughts.

[AlmasterGM]

+1 to Reckoner's post. My vote stays.

[MonkeyMan576]

Wow, if I'm telling the truth you dont believe me and lynch a power role and if I'm scum you punish me for having a good fakeclaim. This is good reasoning.