Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[RayFrost]

Just curious:
@RayFrost: Other than Apathy, who do you suspect (and why)?

jammer, skill, and jmurph

[RayFrost]

words words words insults insults arrogance words words words appeal to fear

words words words words insults jabs words words words words words

[RayFrost]

I wont be that mad about it though, I've read 20 pages of sheer crap from a bunch of really bad townies. Cant say Im surprised since it is a noob game, but come on. Pull your head out of your ass.

1. you are a 'noob' so yeah.

2. you are placing personal insults, which is a big no no

3. saying

the rest of the town

is bad just because you are getting lynched is pathetic. Seriously, it's pitiful. Man up to the fact

you seem scummy

and get over yourself.

[RayFrost]

Oh, that and I am very very busy with work.


I made a decent case that was never really followed up on by anyone. Ray took prana by the ears and got him all upset to distract the rest of the town long enough to deflect the attention on to the next target.


I would love to continue to make decent posts using logic, but it doesnt seems to pierce half of the thick skulls here, so why bother?



Seems to be getting someone all upset and making them e-rage for a couple pages is enough of a 'defense' to get someone else lynched. Maybe I should try that, what do you think ray?

Cuz you weren't here to follow up on it and prana sooooo didn't attack me at all and I didn't get within lynching range. Yeah, really good first paragraph there, completely backed up by logic and evidence.

insults once again, pointless AtE

well, you are already e-raging and casting insults and emotional appeals, so why not try to goad me into raging at you, amirite?

ofc, you'd have to show evidence that I incited prana into an emotional state from which I backed him down through some super 1337 manipulation to make myself seem town, oh wait, this is a town full of crap players, so I couldn't do that.

[RayFrost]

So, you point out what I did (change my opinion) as though its relevant, then go on to defend yourself doing the exact same thing?


This is the reason why I said you are dumb. Your logic is flawed, and you are so wrapped up in your OWN points that you have no care or willingness to look beyond it, until someone makes you upset apparently which Ray did a great job of btw.


The 'noob card' wasnt a 'card' I was 'playing'

I was making a blanket statement because of the fact that fuzzy has terrible logic and contradicts himself in huge posts, you do the same, jammer I have no harsh words for he seems pretty smart, Ray is blatantly playing you for a sucker by getting you all raged and then shifting the focus, Phaen is smart and playing logically, and PE has barely contributed compared to you, ray, phaen, jammer, and fuzzy. The town, as a whole, is playing like noobs with a stupid pack mentality and you're leading the idiotic charge.


So far you personally have served to do nothing but confuse the town on EVERY ISSUE. You took up the helm of ray's lynch, even putting him to l-1, then ray accused redbox of something minor and stupid, and you took on that charge, then on to fuzzy, after jmurph, and now me. Especially considering Im probably missing a few, this is just BAD PLAY. You havent raised any real contributions of your own, you just keep taking other people's arguments (however small and bad ex. ray's attack on redbox) and overly elaborating to the point of it just being ridiculous. You tried to force the town to lynch ray.

YOU WERE CALLING FOR SOMEONE TO COME IN AND FINISH HIM OFF SEVERAL TIMES. Now all of the sudden Ray has no more guilt and Im the one to go?


Seriously?

Okay, I just want to call bullshit here.

stop insulting people. it's starting to make me want to request a forced replacement. it's not cool.

yeah, saying he's wrapped up in his own points and then saying he hasn't really made any original points is contradictory. Also note that you earlier said your case wasn't followed through upon yet prana, apparantly, has no original points, so he'd have had to use your own, which means that you insulted your own case despite earlier calling it decent.

You are passing all the blame for the suspicion on me on prana, taking no responsibility for your part on it, while also calling that I'm scum. Either take responsibility for the fact you contributed to my near lynch or stop trying to make it happen (note the irony that you are saying prana was trying to force people...)

You're about to lynch a vanilla because you cant pull back on your blind reigns and actually THINK about things before you make 10 irrational posts.

Ray noticed this, jumped all over you when you were attacking him, primed you up and let you go wild. For 4 pages straight. You basically distracted the whole town, Ray basically picked you to pieces (which isnt that hard tbh) and now he's made himself look better in the process JUST ENOUGH to shift the blame around town and get himself a little breathing room.


I havent gotten good reads on a lot of people, I will admit that, but Ray's style has been pathetically anti-town all game and you dont even care or notice because you're too busy blindly attacking whoever has a finger pointed at them. Its bad play. Plain and simple.



Again, if you are voting me off, you are being lead into a mislynch on a vanilla. You will see this as soon as I die. The real culprit would want to distract as much attention away from themselves, and just slightly contribute to a lynch enough to make it happen but not so much as to seem overzealous.

So far, Ray has tossed in little bits and pieces against me after the bandwagon gained steam, held off his vote in a contradicting manor, placed his vote slightly later to put me at l-1 and so far has made the smallest and worst case against me.

Hes got me right where he wants me to push a mislynch, keep himself alive, still be able to go back later on and just say he was going with the crowd. After all of his contradictions, useless finger pointing, useless posts, and overzealous defensiveness.


...and the big problem is Prana, even if you are town you have put 3 people to within 1 or 2 votes of a lynch, vocally supporting ending the day phase as soon as possible while filling your posts with contradictions and fluff, effectively confusing the town while attempting to lead bogus charges against almost 5 people now.

If it is so easy to pick prana to pieces, I'm surprised you haven't done so. Oh, it's not

that

easy? So you admit you aren't as good a player as somebody you've called an idiot? srsly.

oh, wow, you have virtually no good reads, yet you somehow know me as anti-town (note that anti-town != scummy, so you aren't even calling me scum here) but provide no evidence that the entirety of my posting is anti-town, which, imo, would say my playstyle is anti-town, but that would then have very little indication of my alignment. Also, you can't go 'omfg, you tried to force a ray lynch' and then, in the next breath, go 'omfg, you aren't trying to get ray lynched' as reasoning against somebody.

already covered the vote thing, so that point is fail.

and yeah, a 2 page word doc of a case is really, really small. congrats.

point out where the own is confused by

prana's

posting.

90% of your 'points' are things I would say 'Citation Needed' towards.

[RayFrost]

...and we keep someone who is blatantly scum around

when talking about me and the 50/50 lynch chances. First of all, you and no one else has pointed to anything I've done thats "blatantly scum"my. The most thats been lifted against me is pointing out a few inconsistencies and a quick bandwagon based on those. Anything else is a fabrication.

So again, you have this huge illusion of some grand case worthy of lynching me on, and yet in reality there is very, very little and you have served to only blow it out of proportion and hype a lynch based on nothing




Just like you did to jmurph
redbox
and rayfrost.

giving proof is tech.

lack of proof is fail.

this post fails.

[fuzzylightning]

@Jammer: I started the case against jmurph, so I don't see how that makes it fence-sitting. I have also expressed who I believe to be scum, and with that, I don't see how you can say I am fence-sitting. You say my last analysis posted general info, when I believe that I stated that I believed that jmurph and Apathy were scum, with the redbox/Phaen slot seeming scummy. Outside of that, I don't think I need to say, I believe everyone else is town, that just seems silly to me. Let me know if I am misinterpreting something you are saying

[Kison]

Day One: Vote Count

Apathy (

3

) : Phaen, RayFrost, fuzzylightning
jmurph3 (

1

) : PaltryExcuse
RayFrost (

1

) : Apathy
fuzzylightning (

1

) : jammer

Not Voting (

3

) : Skill006, jmurph3, PranaDevil

With

9

alive, it will take

5

votes to lynch.

The day's deadline is currently set to:

February 24th, 2010, 11:59:59 PM, EST

[Apathy]

Just curious:
@RayFrost: Other than Apathy, who do you suspect (and why)?

jammer, skill, and jmurph

giving proof is tech.

lack of proof is fail.

this post fails.

Yawn, yet more contradictions. Coupled with a condescending attitude.

I got mad at Prana because Im really on the fence with him. The more I read and re-read his posts, the more I feel like he is actually town, but I feel most of his points are null or over-hyped. Im not going to get mad and go back and forth with you because I feel you're scum, and if I just get mad, its going to again distract from your contradicting behavior and allow you to again use your condescending undertones to incite a player to rage at you and distract the town from any of your real scummy behavior.

Why dont you take your own advice and elaborate on your scumreads?

@Prana - You read really far into the things Im saying. You're assuming that everything I point out is a scumread on you. Let me clarify this: It is not. Most of the things I have pointed out about you are just regarding an annoying playstyle. To me. Things, about your style of play, that, to me, are annoying. I think, personally, they are bad play. Over elaborating (3 paragraphs) on insignificant points doesnt help the town. It makes the real points harder to see through all the fog. This, to me (especially with the limited time I have to read all of it) is annoying. I apologize for attacking you the way I did. Hope this clears the air on my thinking in doing so, at least.

Why dont we put our tiff behind us and actually work toward finding scum? Who else are you looking at? What about Skill006 or jammer?

I'll be finishing my big post before 5pm today

[PranaDevil]

To be honest, I'm unsure about Skill, but I have just noticed one thing looking over everything, and that is that since pretty much the RVS stage, she's not made a vote, she voted Ray early on, then switched to fuzzy, then backed down from that argument and hasn't voted at all since. Which increases my concern that she's just fence sitting and not really getting involved in any actual arguments or scum hunting.

This concerns me because in RVS she mentioned she's not great at scum hunting, sure she could be being honest, but there's part of me that feels it was a potential early statement to make us all believe her lack of scum hunting is normal, as opposed to sliding by as scum.

jammer, I currently think is town, obviously my view could change, as could anyones, but that's how it is for now.

However, where I am looking would still be fuzzy and jmurph. jmurph because of the seemingly follow the bandwagon stuff, but I am willing to hold back a while with her and see where things head and see if she has more ideas further down the line.

fuzzy, however, I still have trouble getting beyond the whole statement of it's not "his" job to help others find scum. For an IC that's a strange statement really. Extremely strange in fact. LIke I've said before, the game is based on scum hunting, the only people who don't want to do that are scum. Town want to help other town find scum, not hide their opinions and views, that doesn't help town, and is a negative for town.

Will also admit, however, that the contradiction in those Ray posts does stand out somewhat. So Ray, could you give reasons for suspecting jammer and skill? (I don't think we need you to repeat your reasons for jmurph though, but if someone asks, or you feel like it, then go for it, lol)

As for the length of my posting, I've likely said it earlier, but I do have trouble condensing my thoughts. I always have. I admit I often type about 5 or 6 lines of text when others could likely get those thoughts out in 1 or 2, also the whole back and forth between me and Ray I admit has made the game harder to read due to the length of it, and re-reading things is somewhat tougher now. For that I do apologize and hope people notice that I've (at least tried) to post less often rather than replying to absolutely every post ever. (Barring the little gameplay mechanic issue about the lynches obviously, but as I say, that's just a personal view, and has nothing at all to do with who the lynchee could be).

For now though, I am still of the feeling Apathy is scum, and I'm not voting purely to make sure there's no hammer until he's had chance to post his long post. After that, if I still feel he's scum, I'll put the vote back on.

[jmurph3]

:arrow: So Apathy came back, and in a big way. Firstly, let me say that this made me, and probably a lot of other people, given how both Prana and Ray told him to bugger off, actually made me want to drop the hammer:

The only reason Im not making a bigger post is because this town is terrible.

...

I wont be that mad about it though, I've read 20 pages of sheer crap from a bunch of really bad townies. Cant say Im surprised since it is a noob game, but come on. Pull your head out of your ass.

That's a great strategy, son. Insult everyone who's voting for you, which is clearly going to make them unvote, and then insult everyone who is not currently voting for you. Slick, ace. Real slick.

However, because I was not online for this, cooler heads prevailed since there was more to read through.

So far you personally have served to do nothing but confuse the town on EVERY ISSUE. You took up the helm of ray's lynch, even putting him to l-1, then ray accused redbox of something minor and stupid, and you took on that charge, then on to fuzzy, after jmurph, and now me. Especially considering Im probably missing a few, this is just BAD PLAY. You havent raised any real contributions of your own, you just keep taking other people's arguments (however small and bad ex. ray's attack on redbox) and overly elaborating to the point of it just being ridiculous. You tried to force the town to lynch ray.

Well, at least he was no longer blanket insulting the town. Prana already defended himself in an eloquent way, so I'll just let them keep on with that, shall I?

If you give me a few more days to elaborate, I will gladly prove my willingness to scumhunt for the town, if after Monday night I havent assuaded your suspicions, then by all means, lynch me.

I think we're all waiting patiently on this one.

What I really wanted to point out was in Apathy's most recent post:

I got mad at Prana because Im really on the fence with him. The more I read and re-read his posts, the more I feel like he is actually town, but I feel most of his points are null or over-hyped.

...

@Prana - You read really far into the things Im saying. You're assuming that everything I point out is a scumread on you. Let me clarify this: It is not. Most of the things I have pointed out about you are just regarding an annoying playstyle. To me. Things, about your style of play, that, to me, are annoying. I think, personally, they are bad play.

...

Why dont we put our tiff behind us and actually work toward finding scum? Who else are you looking at? What about Skill006 or jammer?

I'll be finishing my big post before 5pm today

This seems to me to be...I don't know if I'd call it backtracking, brown nosing, or what, but it seems fishy. You vehemently attack someone, calling him stupid, an idiot, telling him he has his head up his ass, etc. but then only a short while later want to work together with him? That doesn't seem right.

When reading your posts, Apathy, I definitely thought the points you were making against Prana were what you were considering as scumtells for him. I still get that read, in spite of your hasty point that this wasn't what you meant. I don't know, I guess I'm just not buying the whole "Let's make up and be friends" thing you're trying to pull. Maybe this promised "long post" will help clear up the matter...

:arrow: Secondly,

jammer, you're either misinterpreting what jmurph said, or misrepresenting it (ahh, those 2 words look too much alike XD)

Idd, I'm assuming, what you say is a possible explanation.
I didn't mean to state what I said as a fact merely trying to get out why I thought it was suspicious.
Note I'm not 100% sure my reasoning is the right one. If it was, it is with the 'lieing'(it would mean she lied heavily about what she meant) from her. Enough to place a vote on her.
The conclusions I get are majorly set on the assumption jmurph is lining up lynches.

Huh? Where is this lying from me? I'm exceedingly confused. Especially since your entire post is based off of the fact that you're

assuming that that is what I meant

. I believe both myself and Skill have emphasized, multiple times over, that saying prime suspect DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN LINING UP LYNCHES. Or, more accurately, if that is what it means, then I misused the term, since I in no way, shape, or form was lining up lynches. I was prioritizing suspicions. And there's a big difference there.

:arrow: Thirdly, as much as it pains me to admit it, Apathy did have a point about one thing:

Just curious:
@RayFrost: Other than Apathy, who do you suspect (and why)?

jammer, skill, and jmurph

There was a second part of that question, Ray. It was, "and why?" This thus implies that one would give some kind of explanation...of which you did not do. Perhaps posting some form of reasoning might be in order?

:arrow: Fourthly (oy vey, am I on my fourth point already?), the more fuzzy posts, the less I'm liking him.

Regarding my case against jmurph: Yes at the beginning it was for not posting content, but it had evolved, especially with her reactions to the second and third votes that were placed on her. She seemingly gave up and didn't even try to defend herself until RF came in and defended her. Now, my case, as it was doesn't hold enough water for my vote, so I will

unvote

, however, that doesn't mean that I still don't find her suspicious, because I do. And before anyone accuses me of tunneling, just because my vote was on a specific person, doesn't mean that I am entirely focused on someone.

Well, I've already made a post where I've fully demonstrated how your case, in fact, didn't evolve, so I won't repeat that again here. And I'm sorry, but this entire game, in spite of the fact that you claim to not be "entirely focused on someone", you were voting for me. Until you switched to Apathy, you kept your vote firmly on me without offering any further support. And to quote from the wiki on the definition of tunnel vision,

Confirmation Bias or Tunnel Vision is when a player becomes convinced by their own arguments by virtue of how long or how strong they hold them.

which, IMO, is what you've been doing.

Then, there's this gem:

considering if you look hard enough, everyone makes mistakes that could be construed as scum tells.

Have you even

considered

the possibility that that is what you're doing? The only thing you've added to your case against me was the setting up lynches. I've stated that that was not what I meant. How does this concept that you stated apply to Ray, but not ever to me?

And then Prana came in and posted after I started this post but thankfully I thought to preview and caught that.

fuzzy, however, I still have trouble getting beyond the whole statement of it's not "his" job to help others find scum. For an IC that's a strange statement really. Extremely strange in fact. LIke I've said before, the game is based on scum hunting, the only people who don't want to do that are scum. Town want to help other town find scum, not hide their opinions and views, that doesn't help town, and is a negative for town.

QFT

[fuzzylightning]

@jmurph: The difference between what I was doing, which really came down to keeping my vote on you because I didn't have a better option until I moved it to Apathy, and what PD was doing to Ray, was PD was consistently attacking Ray without really even looking at anyone else. So I didn't move my vote, that happens very often in games, I was at least looking at other people, and when I found a better spot for my vote, I moved it there. If you can show me a post where all I said was jmurph is scum, jmurph is scum, I am not going to look at anyone else because jmurph is scum (not those specific words, but the general idea of the post), then I will concede that I was tunneling, but I don't believe you will find that.

@PD: The context that I read jammer's post in made it seem, to me at least, that I was supposed to reveal to him who the scum was, with him having to do little to no scumhunting. That is why I responded in the way I did. I hope that is not what he meant, but when I saw that post, that was the way I read it. If that makes me look scummy, then so be it, but it is not my intention to impede the hunting of scum.

[Apathy]

@jmurph - I was trying to end the ragewar about to start between Prana and I before it served to be as big of a PITA distraction as Ray/Prana was a few pages back. Im not trying to "make up and be friends" Im trying to make up for the sake of the actual scum hunt.

I got upset, I know. Im sorry to the townies who are working hard to do something for us. I was just really bothered by how quickly the read changed on Ray just because him and Prana had a tiff. There wasnt anything in those pages that made me feel Ray was doing anything more for the town, only just trying to watch his own back.


Also, noteworthy, is fuzzy's unwillingness (maybe inability?) to explain why his read on Ray changed so dramatically.

@fuzzy -

he seemed very much like a pro-town player. He posts often and has tried to move the game along as best he could

Posting often does not always = pro town.
Wouldnt moving the game along, at least quickly, be something that scum would want to do?
In your wording, you called it a 'strong pro-town read'. I dunno, but to me I would get a strong pro-town read from someone who is actively scumhunting, pointing out clues and tells about other people, and progressively developing a case on other players who act scummy. So far, in my opinion I've only seen ray watch his own back, attempt to buddy jmurph, and take a condescending tone with Prana and myself in order to incite an argument and create chaos.

Can you show me some sort of evidence as to why its such a

strong pro-town read

? (I guess 'he posts a lot' isnt cutting it for me, sry)

[Apathy]

Oh, and all the blatant contradictions. Cant forget those

[jammer]

@Jammer: I started the case against jmurph, so I don't see how that makes it fence-sitting. I have also expressed who I believe to be scum, and with that, I don't see how you can say I am fence-sitting. You say my last analysis posted general info, when I believe that I stated that I believed that jmurph and Apathy were scum, with the redbox/Phaen slot seeming scummy. Outside of that, I don't think I need to say, I believe everyone else is town, that just seems silly to me. Let me know if I am misinterpreting something you are saying

The starting case against jmurph was pretty weak. With the same logic you could've voted multiple other players at that time. You sat on the side line while others made a case on jmurph.
You voted jmurph since the start of the game, I get the idea you believe she is scum. Voting early doesn't mean you don't sit on the fence.
With Apathy vote being late on the wagon(practically the L-1 vote), I got the idea you followed general opinion.

@jmurph, you only lied

if

you where lining up lynches, as you say you didn't line up lynches.

The reason Ray suspects me and skill probably has to do with not posting much about Apathy.

[RayFrost]

Just curious:
@RayFrost: Other than Apathy, who do you suspect (and why)?

jammer, skill, and jmurph

giving proof is tech.

lack of proof is fail.

this post fails.

Yawn, yet more contradictions. Coupled with a condescending attitude.

I got mad at Prana because Im really on the fence with him. The more I read and re-read his posts, the more I feel like he is actually town, but I feel most of his points are null or over-hyped. Im not going to get mad and go back and forth with you because I feel you're scum, and if I just get mad, its going to again distract from your contradicting behavior and allow you to again use your condescending undertones to incite a player to rage at you and distract the town from any of your real scummy behavior.

Why dont you take your own advice and elaborate on your scumreads?

@Prana - You read really far into the things Im saying. You're assuming that everything I point out is a scumread on you. Let me clarify this: It is not. Most of the things I have pointed out about you are just regarding an annoying playstyle. To me. Things, about your style of play, that, to me, are annoying. I think, personally, they are bad play. Over elaborating (3 paragraphs) on insignificant points doesnt help the town. It makes the real points harder to see through all the fog. This, to me (especially with the limited time I have to read all of it) is annoying. I apologize for attacking you the way I did. Hope this clears the air on my thinking in doing so, at least.

Why dont we put our tiff behind us and actually work toward finding scum? Who else are you looking at? What about Skill006 or jammer?

I'll be finishing my big post before 5pm today

not a contradiction. 'giving proof is tech'

is different from 'giving reasoning is tech'

also, you go from 'prana is obv scum' to 'I'm on the fence' to 'I think he's town' - backpedaling much?

my reason to disliking skill/jammer has mostly to do with the fact they aren't willing to take a strong stance on the major things that are going on ITT. They can take stances on fringe components all they want, but it doesn't help much if they avoid discussing current events.

jmurph is neutral-leaning scum that I'd be willing to lynch but would highly prefer the other three on. this read is

I'll give my own response to your stuff towards the other players after they respond, as it is not my job to give them their defenses.

One major problem I have with your posts after my most recent one is... you didn't give any proof for what I was bothered by the lack of proof for.

So you've basically strawmanned me by attacking a 'contradiction' in my posting as a way out of actually responding to ANY of my points.

You just go 'you are contradicting yourself and being condescending, so yeah, I'm going to ignore you' and then go la di da and respond elsewhere without single point of defense against anything that's been said, really.

Your stuff toward prana is 'he's scum' 'he's neutral' 'he's town with an annoying playstyle' within two posts by you. amazing change there, mate. really nice use of the buddying and backpedaling techniques.

Also, not responding to the vast majority of points against you is still noted.

[RayFrost]

The reason Ray suspects me and skill probably has to do with not posting much about Apathy.

... and you still aren't.

[RayFrost]

@jmurph: The difference between what I was doing, which really came down to keeping my vote on you because I didn't have a better option until I moved it to Apathy, and what PD was doing to Ray, was PD was consistently attacking Ray without really even looking at anyone else. So I didn't move my vote, that happens very often in games, I was at least looking at other people, and when I found a better spot for my vote, I moved it there. If you can show me a post where all I said was jmurph is scum, jmurph is scum, I am not going to look at anyone else because jmurph is scum (not those specific words, but the general idea of the post), then I will concede that I was tunneling, but I don't believe you will find that.

@PD: The context that I read jammer's post in made it seem, to me at least, that I was supposed to reveal to him who the scum was, with him having to do little to no scumhunting. That is why I responded in the way I did. I hope that is not what he meant, but when I saw that post, that was the way I read it. If that makes me look scummy, then so be it, but it is not my intention to impede the hunting of scum.

okay, all well and good on the @ jmurph stuff.

not so well and good on the @ PD stuff

you say 'it is not my intention to impede the hunting of scum'

but you have a distinct lack of saying 'it is my intention to hunt scum' which is the main issue.

many of your recent posts are just responding to points by others without any real proactivity on your part.

care to explain why I shouldn't think you are scum for not really scumhunting lately and taking a highly defensive stance in which you are not attempting to scumhunt in a way that is pro-active and actually helps the town in any real way? (I say it like this because I am betting your response otherwise would be 'I'm scumhunting, I'm just not doing it your way' or something similar, which is not something I'm willing to tolerate)

[RayFrost]

I'll be finishing my big post before 5pm today

Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:31 pm

translated into PST...

Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:31 pm

the clock is ticking apathy.

also, why don't you focus your effort on your 'big post' rather than expending your energy on responding immediately?

[Skill006]

(...they are all brawling amongst themselves, all of them, pushing for an apathy lynch. Apathy has only one more chance until they make the final decision. All is going according to plan...mwahahaha...)

OK. I have a question.

Skill006 ->
I disagree with some of what she has said (but that might go in a separate post) but I don't find her posts scummy. I guess my read is neutral on her.

What don't you agree with me on? you've got me all curious.

jammer, question:

Basically the scummy stuff

[about apathy]

.
He accuses Prana for pushing hard on Ray together with Ray as his prime suspect.

Wishy washy ness with redbox, skill and fuzzy.

Not willing to respond to points from prana, RF.

What's apathy's "wishy-washiness" on the three of us? And do you think he's scum or not?

Paltry, what's your read on apathy? (Out of everyone, discluding me, you're the only one who hasn't made a stance on it, I believe)

~~~~~~~

Apathy

“So far, Ray has tossed in little bits and pieces against me after the bandwagon gained steam, held off his vote in a contradicting manor, placed his vote slightly later to put me at l-1 and so far has made the smallest and worst case against me.”

Post 380. Are you even reading the thread?

I'm assuming that in your precise post, you'll actually attack prana and ray instead of saying they are scummy/bad town. You haven't really convinced me of anything in your arguments, and I'm a pretty easy person to convince (ok, so some of your points

did

convince me...for a time...)

I am l-1, and

you'll see how bad of a choice it was to lynch me once it happens

(im sure someone will hammer since Im not making big posts anymore)

Implying he is town...

Listen, you guys can vote me all you want. I know that I will flip town and you will have almost nothing to go on because of it.

You're about to lynch a vanilla because you cant pull back on your blind reigns and actually THINK about things before you make 10 irrational posts.

Again, if you are voting me off, you are being lead into a mislynch on a vanilla.

you have tried

twice

(4 times)

to convince us that you are town.... And you know how it goes: repeat something enough and people start to believe it.

He did something that is scummy by his own logic; 4 times.

Why dont we put our tiff behind us and actually work toward finding scum? Who else are you looking at? What about Skill006 or jammer?

Attention-diverting much? Not only are you asking random questions about random people (not necessarily bad)but you're

asking questions

, as opposed to giving your own reads on the 2 of us, or asking the 2 of us directly some questions that would generate discussion and thought. When you ask other people about it, it gives you a chance to see how other people are thinking and makes it easier for you to either poke holes in their analysises or nod and agree w/ them to slip by.

I'm getting a scum read on apathy from recent posts (his older posts weren't as scummy, IMO). However, I have a slight doubt in my mind, as his "scumminess" (lack of defense and the like) may be due to RL issues. So, I'm going to patiently wait for his next post to set my analysis. ^.^

[Phaen]

Sorry about being gone yesterday.

Heh, maybe he lives on the Solomon Islands ( its currently 4:13pm there )

Reading up and making a real post shortly.

[fuzzylightning]

@Apathy: I do not wish to show why I believe RF to be town because that isn't going to affect anything other than scum, showing why he could be a good target. Your fishing for my beliefs regarding that is really scummy and makes me believe in my vote on you all the more. Why are you so interested in this anyway?

@Jammer: I acknowledged that the initial case on jmurph was weak, but it didn't change the fact that I felt she was scum. At this point, any accusations of me tunneling on her comes from everyone else's constant prodding of my vote being there for most of the day. I had stated earlier in the day that I was suspicious of Apathy and moved my vote to him when I felt that it was appropriate in my own mind.

[RayFrost]

phaen, I live in Japan, and it is currently 3:27 PM, so yeah.

[Phaen]

Ack I fell asleep. Yay for random 2 am posts...

@Skill - I meant that I disagreed with your reads on people and your playstyle so far. I haven't picked up on anything that would actually be a tell, though. Hence the neutral read =/

@Apathy - Your defense is just making me think you're more scummy. Most of the things you're saying in your posts detract rather than contribute towards your defense.

Good on Skill for picking up on how even though you think its a scumtell to repeat the town-alignment, you do it yourself. I still don't think its a huge tell, though.

[PaltryExcuse]

Paltry, what's your read on apathy? (Out of everyone, discluding me, you're the only one who hasn't made a stance on it, I believe)

Wrongo.

Overall, the case on Apathy works on a few points:
A) His case against RayFrost is weaksauce.
B) His defense is weaksauce. He just refers to things happening but provides no context or evidence for his reasoning. (fuzzy's contradiction, where in the big wide world he gets the VT idea from Prana, where Ray goes for the easy lynch, the arguments that Phaen ignored)
C)

It is also worth note how urgently he wanted to push the lynch, though.
*snip*
I will admit that 80% of my first posts were mostly over the edge, but my idea was to stimulate a REAL reaction out of you, which sort-of worked, and also got some discussion flowing around the other members of the town.

This is major backtracking off an unpopular lynch. Backtracking of this nature, IMO, is scummy.

I just haven't posted on his most recent stuff yet as we're constantly waiting on this 'big post' as he comes back and defends himself against the points people are making. Whether legitimate or not.

The best points against Apathy since my last one are:
1) His opinion on Prana is a quick-changing mess.
2) Fluffing off points. You think Ray is scum, I understand that. However, consider the possibility that you could be wrong. Step back and try to look at it from the Ray-town standpoint instead of assuming Ray-scum.

The ones that don't work are:
1) His emotional reaction and appeals. It's not logical or convincing, but I've seen town do it (even experienced town) so I'm not counting it as a tell at all. Just unconvincing.
2) The town repetitiveness. It's contradictory in his posts as he uses it against Ray, but overall is still not a tell.


Although I think Apathy is scummy, I believe that jmurph3 and fuzzylightning are scummier. I'm going to build a case on fuzzy, so I'll be back ASAP.