Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[Nikanor]

YES!
I EMERGE FROM THE MOUNTAIN OF POSTS ALIIIIIVE!

[Nikanor]

So, I'm thinking at least one of Almaster and Neto are scum. They're my two top suspects, and it would be weird for me to be wrong twice, I think.
Neto is literally *shrug*ing off his attackers, which is ridiculously scummy, especially when I know that he doesn't do this as town.
As for Almaster:

Either way, though, I don't really understand the whole "L-1" paranoia. Sure, Kyle was lurking and his reasons were copy/paste, but why is him using reasons we think are good to put someone we think is scummy at L-1 so god awful in and of itself?

What the hell is that? Do you not care about the possibility that the guy you're wagoning might be town, and that the person hopping on the wagon may be opportunistic scum?

Unvote. Vote: AlmasterGM.

[Netopalis]

I disagreee. I haven't used it a great deal in the past as town, but then again, I'm not often attacked with such weak non-arguments. I'm trying to tone back some of my bombast since I've found that I've been lynched an awful lot lately on D1, regardless of alignment.

[Espeonage]

@Nika: Of the current wagons who would you feel best about lynching?

[Nikanor]

I'd rather not lynch any of Monkey, Sakako, or kyle, but it forced to make a decision, I'd choose Monkey. I don't understand why Sakako is being wagoned, and his wagon feels opportunistic.

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

I'm sorry, but if THAT is the best case you can come up with, you need to be lynched. Your chronic lurking is hurting town; and when you finally do get a post in, you point out some random post of AGM's and make a comment about it, then throw down a vote? That's not a case. It's a comment. And you conveniently don't want to join any of the current lynch wagons... why's that? We got the noose around your scumbuddy's throat?

[Nikanor]

I don't think the current wagons are adequate, Reck.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not sure how you don't think anything Sakako/kyle/MonkeyMan have done is scummier than one random quote from Alamaster.

[DeathRowKitty]

Bad logic is

scummy

an indicator that someone uses bad logic.

Fixed.

---

Premature (and almost completely unreadable) vote analysis time!

The names next to each person indicate the people they voted for,

orange indicates an FoS

, {votes in brackets are RVS votes}, the numbers show what number vote it was on the player (numbers next to italicized names indicate how many votes were on the FoSed player). A vertical line indicates an unvote without a new vote being made (the number in parentheses next to a vertical line indicates the number of votes on the player before the unvote):

AlmasterGM

- {kyle (1)} Monkey (4), Nikanor (2), Monkey (2)

almightybob

- {DRK (2)*} Monkey (2)

DeathRowKitty

- {Nikanor (1), Sakako (1)+} kyle (2), Neto (1), Sakako (1),

Monkey

(2)

Espeonage

- {xRx (1)

Sakako

(1)+} Monkey (1), kyle (2), Monkey (3)

hitogoroshi

- {almightybob (1)} kyle (2)

kyle99

- {Lowell (1), AGM (1)} Sakako (5)

Lowell

- {Nikanor (2)} Espeon (2),

Monkey

(2), Monkey (3), Nikanor (1),

xRx

(0),

Neto

(0)

MonkeyMan576

- {xRx (2)+} Neto (1), Sakako (4), kyle (3),

Nikanor

(2)

Netopalis

- {} almightybob (2) | (2), Monkey (2), Sakako (3)

Nikanor

- {Lowell (1)} AGM (1)

Sakako

- {Espeon (1)}

Espeon

(1), Neto (3) | (2), xRx (1) | (1), Nikanor (3), Monkey (4)

xRECKONERx

- {DRK (1)} Neto (2), Sakako (2), kyle (1) | (1), Nikanor (1)

*Occurred during the RVS, but not a random vote
+Random?

Things to note:

• Kyle was willing to make two random votes, but has only made one vote since, a vote that put Sakako at L-2.
• Reckoner's jumped around a bit, but has been willing to hold unpopular opinions. Prob-town.
• Three of Sakako's four real votes have put the 3rd or 4th vote on a player and have usually come not long after other votes appear on those players. His other real vote looks a lot like OMGUS. Scummy.
• Nikanor is prob-town. That doesn't actually follow from the voting analysis, but I figured I'd say that since Nikanor has a couple of votes on him.
• AGM (I think it was AGM) pointed this out at some point, but a Neto-Monkey scum team wouldn't be implausible. They had their early battle over very little (distancing), gave up and both hopped on the Sakako wagon. Neto's unvote came when Monkey had 4 votes because apparently questioning Monkey wasn't going anywhere. Plus, they've been independently scummy.

If anyone else has anything to add, go ahead. I don't feel like looking at this any more.

[xRECKONERx]

Do you not think Nik's piss-poor attempt to paint AGM as scummy is ill-intended?

[DeathRowKitty]

I do not.

[Nikanor]

Why do you think I'm probtown, DRK?

Do you not think Nik's piss-poor attempt to paint AGM as scummy is ill-intended?

I take offense to this. :/

[AlmasterGM]

So, I'm thinking at least one of Almaster and Neto are scum. They're my two top suspects, and it would be weird for me to be wrong twice, I think.

Wow, this is pretty cocky for somebody who is having trouble even keeping up with the thread.

Neto is literally *shrug*ing off his attackers, which is ridiculously scummy, especially when I know that he doesn't do this as town.

So was Monkey until extremely recently ... but you don't find him scummy at all. Hrm.

Either way, though, I don't really understand the whole "L-1" paranoia. Sure, Kyle was lurking and his reasons were copy/paste, but why is him using reasons we think are good to put someone we think is scummy at L-1 so god awful in and of itself?

What the hell is that? Do you not care about the possibility that the guy you're wagoning might be town, and that the person hopping on the wagon may be opportunistic scum?

If this is THE #1 scumtell you have seen this entire game, which I presume it is since your vote is on me, you are clearly not paying attention to the game at all. EVEN IF my post is suspect, which it's not at all, it's definitely not the most important thing that's happened. And to answer your argument: No, I'm not concerned because I don't think Kyle is scum, and I don't think the target is town. And, even if I am wrong, which I doubt, it still doesn't make L-2 bad. TWO additional people would have to wagon for a quicklynch to happen, and if they do, they are obvscum and will die accordingly.

[AlmasterGM]

So, I'm thinking at least one of Almaster and Neto are scum. They're my two top suspects, and it would be weird for me to be wrong twice, I think.

Wow, this is pretty cocky for somebody who is having trouble even keeping up with the thread.

Neto is literally *shrug*ing off his attackers, which is ridiculously scummy, especially when I know that he doesn't do this as town.

So was Monkey until extremely recently ... but you don't find him scummy at all. Hrm.

Either way, though, I don't really understand the whole "L-1" paranoia. Sure, Kyle was lurking and his reasons were copy/paste, but why is him using reasons we think are good to put someone we think is scummy at L-1 so god awful in and of itself?

What the hell is that? Do you not care about the possibility that the guy you're wagoning might be town, and that the person hopping on the wagon may be opportunistic scum?

If this is THE #1 scumtell you have seen this entire game, which I presume it is since your vote is on me, you are clearly not paying attention to the game at all. EVEN IF my post is suspect, which it's not at all, it's definitely not the most important thing that's happened. And to answer your argument: No, I'm not concerned because I don't think Kyle is scum, and I don't think the target is town. And, even if I am wrong, which I doubt, it still doesn't make L-2 bad. TWO additional people would have to wagon for a quicklynch to happen, and if they do, they are obvscum and will die accordingly.

[DeathRowKitty]

Why do you think I'm probtown, DRK?

You're pretty much starting the game 17 pages in and we've already established some sort of triichotomy among Monkey, Sakako, and kyle, yet you blatantly ignore all 3 and attack two other people instead. I don't see the scum motivation.

It kind of goes along with what Lowell said earlier, about how he would just lurk through all this if he were scum. It would just be too easy for you to blend in as scum by joining in on one or two of the already-established wagons. Instead, you picked someone that no one has put a vote on all game and vote him instead.

[Espeonage]

He could be a scum buddy to someone who is in the mix and wants to distance from all aspects of it and/or focus attention away.

[DeathRowKitty]

Unless both Monkey and Sakako are scum, he could easily just join the other one and give it a huge momentum boost. Your explanation is possible, but I doubt that's the case.

[Espeonage]

I know it isn't probable. I was just pointing out that there is an explaination for everything and it isn't a good idea to rely on assumptions.
Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.

[DeathRowKitty]

I did say he was "prob-town", not obv-town.

You do have to make assumptions in mafia. There's no way to know someone's intentions for sure. You make a reasonable assumption based on what the person says and does. My reasonable assumption is...well....what I've already said.

[Espeonage]

I wasn't having a go at anything you said. It was just that you sounded pretty certain you were right.

[hitogoroshi]

@hito: what about waiting to see if a vig can take care of kyle?

First off, this is a 12 player - having a killing role isn't the biggest help for town because it's still another kill and one mis-vig can put us in a bad spot. So it's possible we have a vig, but unlikely, in my opinion. (Granted I don't know what percentage of mini games do have vigs, but personally, I think it's generally not the best idea.)

More importantly, it's just lazy. As far as I can tell, the main reason people are proposing vigging kyle over lynching him is that he's doing so little to interact with the other players that his flip would be less informative. This is pretty asinine logic - it boils down to 'you're acting so anti-town that we're not going to lynch you'.

Kyle is still keeping his head down and only posting when someone addresses him. I think anyone on the competing wagons quite honestly needs to explain why they're not voting him, especially with posts like this:

I don't post unless I have something to say. Different than active lurking. I already stated who I think is scum, so unless someone asked me something, why should I post?

Yeah. He said that.

and lol and the Sakako vote. I would be extremely suspicious of anyone who adds to my wagon from here on out.

This kind of attitude is pretty annoying, quite frankly. I don't have any particularly large reason to think you're scum but if I did I sure wouldn't like the fact that you've basicially set yourself up to OMGUS the next person on your wagon.

Regarding Nikanor - I think it's a null tell at this point. DRK makes a good point that a scum would probably want to join a real wagon, but I also know that many scum take refuge in the absurd, counting on the weird things they're doing looking town. It'll depend a lot on what he does next.

Speaking of which, Nik: GM is my strongest town read, and there are others with me on that, I think. I highly doubt your vote is gonna do much to sway the town to get a wagon going, so I'd appreciate it if a.) you joined one of the more viable wagons (may I suggest kyle? :3) or b.) you push a bit more and try to explain more thoroughly why we should lynch GM/Neto today.

[MonkeyMan576]

and lol and the Sakako vote. I would be extremely suspicious of anyone who adds to my wagon from here on out.

This kind of attitude is pretty annoying, quite frankly. I don't have any particularly large reason to think you're scum but if I did I sure wouldn't like the fact that you've basicially set yourself up to OMGUS the next person on your wagon.

Sakakos vote was a lot more annoying. I have every right to point it out.

[Nikanor]

Wow, this is pretty cocky for somebody who is having trouble even keeping up with the thread.

Do you think that my ability to keep up with the thread has an impact on my ability to find scum? If so, why?

So was Monkey until extremely recently ... but you don't find him scummy at all. Hrm.

Where? I saw no *shrug*s coming from Monkey.

If this is THE #1 scumtell you have seen this entire game, which I presume it is since your vote is on me, you are clearly not paying attention to the game at all. EVEN IF my post is suspect, which it's not at all, it's definitely not the most important thing that's happened. And to answer your argument: No, I'm not concerned because I don't think Kyle is scum, and I don't think the target is town. And, even if I am wrong, which I doubt, it still doesn't make L-2 bad. TWO additional people would have to wagon for a quicklynch to happen, and if they do, they are obvscum and will die accordingly.

So, assuming the person who was wagoned was scum, you don't think that maayyybe kyle could have been bussing by voting him with no reason of his own?

Regarding Nikanor - I think it's a null tell at this point. DRK makes a good point that a scum would probably want to join a real wagon, but I also know that many scum take refuge in the absurd, counting on the weird things they're doing looking town. It'll depend a lot on what he does next.

Exactly, it's WIFOM.

[xRECKONERx]

Nikanor could be scum protecting a scum buddy, scum trying to stay off a town wagon, or town going after someone he honestly thinks is scum.

I think at this point, we

need

to lynch Monkey, kyle, or Sakako. The information and analysis it will provide on D2 would be fantastic.

[Nikanor]

I think at this point, we need to lynch Monkey, kyle, or Sakako. The information and analysis it will provide on D2 would be fantastic.

That's a shitty reason to lynch someone, Reck. I'd rather lynch someone I think is scum, thanks.