Mini 928 - Bloodlust Mafia Remix - Over!

[Mr.Sandman]

/mr sandman is in the hood with a lust for blood, mafia and remixes. Confirmed

[Mr.Sandman]

vote Almightybob[\b] for being almighty which is worrying. Can't take the risk he's not town

[Mr.Sandman]

Apologies for my inactivity, been having problems logging in. I'll have a read and post a few thoughts when I get a chance

[Mr.Sandman]

unvote

what was a random vote as the time for randomness has passed.

Forgive my ignorance, and I know these games aren't the place for inane questions, but what does RQS stand for?

I can be more active, as of right now.

[Mr.Sandman]

Well mczombie has a history of being scum. She's been scum 3/4 of her games, so just going with trends I'd say that that it's not a long stretch to say she's scum.

I don't get it. Why are you saying that now? That's an RVS comment

[Mr.Sandman]

Not impressed one bit by

Mr Suave

's reappearance just to commit Gambler's Fallacy then disappear again. If he was serious with his remark, then it just looks like trying to paint a target who won't argue back as scummy. I don't like that. All he's doing is popping in to make pointless comments that serve no scumhunting purpose..

I agree with this completely. This is the point which stands out to me just now.

vote MrSuave

I'll read the thread in closer detail and post my analysis, but just from skimming through, Mr Suaves play is anti-town

[Mr.Sandman]

I've read through properly now.

Haylen is playing in an anti-town way. Firstly, self-voting in the RVS. Self-voting isn't helpful at the best of times. In the RVS, it does absolutely nothing to help set the game forward or get out of the RVS stage, other than drawing attention to herself. Contributed very little up until her last couple of posts. I agree with her opinions on Cyanide and his defensiveness. What are the reasons behind your scum reads on fifi and bv10, Haylen?

MrSuave has had a fixation with voting McZombie, which outlasted the RVS stage and despite the fact that she posted only once. It's almost as if MrSuave is playing a game on his own in which the RVS stage lasts forever. I'm happy with my vote here for now as he is doing nothing.

Dr.Cyanide's play has been erratic, and his defense/attack on CivilScum which followed has been followed up by backtracking on a lot of what he'd said in his defense.

Fifi's play is also interesting. Particular mentions to the fact that first, there is a vote for CS, then she says she agrees with CS's case on Cyanide although she can't decide if it's bad or scum but she thinks CS's aggressive play is more dangerous to the town. Major contradiction there. Then there is a mention of Cyanides post as 'too terrible to be even lying'. I've put this badly but I just think fifi's play is flawed.

bv10 is either lurking or has fallen off the edge of the map.

Just a few thoughts

[Mr.Sandman]

oncerned"]If the cyanide wagon isn't happening my vote is for fifi, for me he's been the second scummiest at this point, and if he is town his erratic vote hoping isn't helping.

the1fifi

With Suave, I see more of someone who's fooling around than someone who's scummy, I'd say the odds of him being scum are the same odds that random.org would generate him a scum role at this point, in other words I find it difficult to justify saying he's

more

scummy, than average.[/quote]

I disagree. To me, fooling around = active lurking. We passed the fooling around stage a while back. However, MrSuave's promise for 2 days time means we should hear something substantial from him before the lynch

you should look at my games, I'll post the links later, but I have a business project due in 2 days so I'm a little busy. once that's done I'll be free to post.

Looking out for what exactly?

Haylen is less suspicious to me now.

Julien, I don't get the last part of your post. You think fifi and suave are scumbuddies because suave has two halfhearted attacks on fifi?

Cyanide, was there a time limit for responding to your prod? You were prodded presumably within 5 days of not posting. I notice bv10 hasn't posted in a week, which increases the chances of him lurking as a tactic

[Mr.Sandman]

EBWOP:

If the cyanide wagon isn't happening my vote is for fifi, for me he's been the second scummiest at this point, and if he is town his erratic vote hoping isn't helping.

the1fifi

With Suave, I see more of someone who's fooling around than someone who's scummy, I'd say the odds of him being scum are the same odds that random.org would generate him a scum role at this point, in other words I find it difficult to justify saying he's

more

scummy, than average.

I disagree. To me, fooling around = active lurking. We passed the fooling around stage a while back. However, MrSuave's promise for 2 days time means we should hear something substantial from him before the lynch

you should look at my games, I'll post the links later, but I have a business project due in 2 days so I'm a little busy. once that's done I'll be free to post.

Looking out for what exactly?

Haylen is less suspicious to me now.

Julien, I don't get the last part of your post. You think fifi and suave are scumbuddies because suave has two halfhearted attacks on fifi?

Cyanide, was there a time limit for responding to your prod? You were prodded presumably within 5 days of not posting. I notice bv10 hasn't posted in a week, which increases the chances of him lurking as a tactic

[Mr.Sandman]

Btw @Sandman and Concerned : Voting someone because another wagon isn't hapening is totally scum. Especially from sandman, as just paraphrased concerned.

My vote has been on MrSuave and still is. I was the second one to vote him other than McZombie, who's vote remained from the RVS stage.

Perhaps you're getting confused but I somehow deleted the 'quote' bit at the start of my post, therefore it came out as my own and not as a direct quote from concerned - hence the EBWOP. I'm not voting you and I'm not paraphrasing anyone. I directly disagreed with concerned. Read the second of the two posts, disregard the first.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ah you're, havingfitz. I miscalculated the lynch time. We won't expect to hear anything substantial from suave before the lynch. What a ploy.

[Mr.Sandman]

Fifi

... why did you claim when you did? What were your thoughts regarding timing of claim?

Once fifi answers these questions, I have something of a plan to propose based on the mechanics of her role. This plan could possibly help Town immensely if fifi is telling the truth, and potentially out her as a liar if she isn't. So

fifi, please answer these questions, especially the role mechanic ones, ASAP

.

Fifi, I'd like an answer to the first part of this.

Bob, you propose to lynch fifi? What was your proposal?

[Mr.Sandman]

So what happened to the cult, fifi? Seeing as you've already claimed, I think it would be to our advantage to hear

[Mr.Sandman]

Oh dear. Self-voting. Anti-town.

vote Darkstrike

Why give up? What's your case on CS?

Anyway, sandman's question on me was also really suspicious, but i reckon dark's behaviour was way worst. But 2 wagons is always better than 1. Double chances of scum cracking under pressure

What makes it so suspicious, compared to almightybob and TeWuicah, who asked for the same information? What advantage did you think there was in not revealing information? And as almightybob asked, why havingfitz?

[Mr.Sandman]

What the deuce?! It was I think. Frik me!

[Mr.Sandman]

sandman has really been floating along quite a bit and not taking hard stances on cases, just more of general "dont like" playstyle. His first suspicion post lays this out quite well

Haylen is playing "anti-town" for things which include self-voting (interestingly enough he didnt rail on fifi for doing this, I actually had Sandman-Haylen as scum partners early on). Then he goes back and agrees with other points of hers, leaving this read open to go either way if needed.

Suave he says is tunneling on Zombie so is scum. IIRC this is mostly for lurking, uselessness.

bv for lurking, but for some reason sandman putting pressure on bv for lurking is fine but suave doing it is scummy.

Cyanide is erratic, he seems to come closest to making a strong read here for stuff regarding CS. This gets abandoned though.

Fifi he starts making a bit of a case against, but again abandons it for saying "logic is just flawed"

This ENTIRE post of suspicions is just beating around the bush on the big name targets, while taking a suckout on a Suave wagon for going for lurkers.

~~~

Later after the fifi claim, sandman tries to rally behind some disbelief of arch over the role. He never comes straight out and calls for the lynch, but the entire post is still expressing negative sentaments towards fifi post claim. There is no point to do that if you dont want someone lynched.

He also does an overkill vote on the DS wagon. Im interested to see what he goes for today since he never has expanded on the extremely early case on Suave. Seriously, go iso him and tell me he has done any scumhunting.

Lets see if we cant get him to L-1 before he even checks in here.

That is a blatant misrepresentation of what actually happened. If you'd been confident enough in your case, you would have actually quoted the post. Here it is:

I've read through properly now.

Haylen is playing in an anti-town way. Firstly, self-voting in the RVS. Self-voting isn't helpful at the best of times. In the RVS, it does absolutely nothing to help set the game forward or get out of the RVS stage, other than drawing attention to herself. Contributed very little up until her last couple of posts. I agree with her opinions on Cyanide and his defensiveness. What are the reasons behind your scum reads on fifi and bv10, Haylen?

MrSuave has had a fixation with voting McZombie, which outlasted the RVS stage and despite the fact that she posted only once. It's almost as if MrSuave is playing a game on his own in which the RVS stage lasts forever. I'm happy with my vote here for now as he is doing nothing.

Dr.Cyanide's play has been erratic, and his defense/attack on CivilScum which followed has been followed up by backtracking on a lot of what he'd said in his defense.

Fifi's play is also interesting. Particular mentions to the fact that first, there is a vote for CS, then she says she agrees with CS's case on Cyanide although she can't decide if it's bad or scum but she thinks CS's aggressive play is more dangerous to the town. Major contradiction there. Then there is a mention of Cyanides post as 'too terrible to be even lying'. I've put this badly but I just think fifi's play is flawed.

bv10 is either lurking or has fallen off the edge of the map.

Just a few thoughts

No hard line stances because it was Day 1 and I find it easier to analyse the worthiness of other peoples arguments. Perhaps I would've had more of a chance on Day 2 if darkstrike hadn't self-hammered so early on.

I didn't say the reason for my vote on Suave was because he was 'tunneling' on zombie, I said it was because he was active lurking.

bv lurking - he hadn't actually posted in a while, therefore I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't actually there and needed replaced whereas Suave clearly was there but wasn't doing anything

Cyanide - this still counts against him/his replacement.

Fifi - I state that while I don't think her play has been helpful, I don't think her play is scummy.

What do you mean by a big name target? Everyone's equal, everyone deserved equal suspicion at that point.

It never crossed my mind to lynch fifi that day, unless someone had countered. However, that didn't necessarily mean I had to believe her right off. I think every claim should be treated with caution and I still don't know why she came out that early.

Regarding the vote on darkstrike, I should've counted up first, but it didn't even cross my mind that after about a page of Day 2, we'd be even remotely close to a lynch. If I'd known, I would've realised darkstrike had already hammered and wouldn't've added my vote on top of that.

And trying to start a bandwagon and get me to l-1 before I come on is nothing short of scummy. What's your justification for that? Pretty much setting me up for a hammer

[Mr.Sandman]

About Suave....

MrSuave has had a fixation with voting McZombie, which outlasted the RVS stage and despite the fact that she posted only once.

It's almost as if MrSuave is playing a game on his own in which the RVS stage lasts forever. I'm happy with my vote here for now as he is doing nothing.

Suave he says is tunneling on Zombie so is scum

. IIRC this is mostly for lurking, uselessness.

bold=bold to me. Even if you are trying to argue that Suave is active lurking, you are heavily implying that tunneling is a huge part of your suspicion.

No, I was summarising his actions that far, as I did with all the others in that post...

No hard line stances because it was Day 1 and I find it easier to analyse the worthiness of other peoples arguments. Perhaps I would've had more of a chance on Day 2 if darkstrike hadn't self-hammered so early on.

"It was day one, im not useful day one". Also... if you are only analysing worthiness, then you arent giving any worthy arguements of your own, so by your own logic you are scum. Or I could just argue IIOA. Or I could argue that if everyone took this stance we would never lynch.

I disagree with you on the first point – analysing worthiness, seeing what motives might be behind arguments, who seems to be plucking things out of thin air as reasons to vote, who is misrepping things in my opinion. In other words, using all the techniques which are helpful to find scum.
Second point, I agree with you on, it wouldn't work if everyone did it. But everyone doesn't do it, therefore it allows me to.

VERY nice attempt to blame the D2 lynch on DS self-hammering when you added your vote after though.

Yes, I don't get your point. Everyone in the game can see that the DS lynch happened because DS self-hammered, not because of anything I did. I add my vote after in ignorance to the voting situation, I admit that.

Fifi - I state that while I don't think her play has been helpful, I don't think her play is scummy.

Major pet peeve here. You were talking about him in a way that did not suggest that you thought he was town, and is therefore subtely pushing a case on him. There is no reason to point out "interesting" or "unhelpful" play of someone you dont think is scum.

I was summarising what had happened, and what had happened were that fifi's actions had caused controversy but my opinion was that I didn't think he was scummy because of that.

What do you mean by a big name target? Everyone's equal, everyone deserved equal suspicion at that point.

All you suspicions were popular suspicions. You never tried to do something that was unpopular.

Fair enough. Suave stood out most for me, so I stood by Suave.

It never crossed my mind to lynch fifi that day, unless someone had countered. However, that didn't necessarily mean I had to believe her right off. I think every claim should be treated with caution and I still don't know why she came out that early.

Yeah.... no. I think ive effectively proven that without a vig claim (which I would be willing to lynch on site) fifi is town. Sucks for scum that a once lynchable player is confirmed town doesnt it?

Taking my comments out of context. That was day one. Why are you trying to make it sound like these are my views now?

Regarding the vote on darkstrike, I should've counted up first, but it didn't even cross my mind that after about a page of Day 2, we'd be even remotely close to a lynch. If I'd known, I would've realised darkstrike had already hammered and wouldn't've added my vote on top of that.

Why would you ever vote without realizing how many votes a player has. The ONLY way a lynch should be accidental is hidden voting mechanichs, or a simul post. This was neither.

No excuse. It just never crossed my mind that he'd be anywhere close to a lynch at that stage.

And trying to start a bandwagon and get me to l-1 before I come on is nothing short of scummy. What's your justification for that? Pretty much setting me up for a hammer

Why is it scummy? I absolutely want you lynched today and think I will get it done. If I was unlucky enough to get a vig role you wouldnt even be here right now.

Because you wanted me up there before I got a chance to defend myself. It looks like you wanted to encourage momentum so that I'd be an easier target for a hammer. What benefit did you see in me defending myself at l-1 as opposed to having one vote on me?

Excuse the massive wall of text but in summary, you're using things out of context and you're misrepping.

[Mr.Sandman]

And I'm not counter-claiming

[Mr.Sandman]

okay, well I was trying not to get myslef killed for sure tonight, but whatever. I'm incharge of the jail which makes me the JK; I RB fifi last night, and I RB CS on N-1. so there you have it. BAM

Why fifi and CS?

[Mr.Sandman]

I see the merits of a mass claim. However, I think we need to be wary of the fact that someone could claim vig (town or scum) and if they do, we have a 1 in 3 chance of lynching scum and a 2 in 3 chance lynching a town power role again. It seems like a better gamble for scum than it does for town. Is this really the best way? What I'm trying to say is that even if there's no vig and both the claims so far are genuine, it looks to me like it's to the scum's advantage to fake claim here

[Mr.Sandman]

Until everyone

has had

a chance to chime in...how can you be so sure there isn't a Vig?

You dont see it?

I will tell you after massclaim finishes but with be blown away if there is a vig

What's the point of this then, if you can tell us now? Why wait?

You're basing this whole mass claim on the assumption that there will be no vig claim

[Mr.Sandman]

I'm not convinced by this whole thing and I hope unjustifiably so but I'm VT anyway

[Mr.Sandman]

I think Llama is sk and likeliest scum are JVW and concerned and I'm edging towards dramonic purely on the basis that almightybob and havingfitz seem more town to me. On my phone at the moment. I'll expand on this in due course

[Mr.Sandman]

Here are my reasonings.

Llama:
Cyanide's play was awful, anti-town even when looked at in the best of lights. I don't think we should forget that. Llama has contributed more worthily but I think he has been misrepping, not only myself, but also others, such as Post 504, where he tries to cast almightybob in a negative light, with a feeble reason. I get the impression that llama would be happy for anyone to get lynched but him.

Julienvonwolfe:
Day 1 play was characterised by votes on players which has since been confirmed as town:
- random vote on CS
- the 4th vote in quick succession on the fifi bandwagon (before backing down on the basis that he thought that fifi was just being a stubborn townie)
- vote on Haylen (for being more scummy than fifi, even though he had said he thought fifi was just a scummy townie)
- goes back to vote on fifi (for the self voting reason, even though he thought fifi was just being stubborn town, and hypocrisy regarding meta?)
Wasn't active on Day 2
- day 3 goes back to suave and focuses on him and fifi for much of the day, despite the claims
- no real mention or accusations against anyone else – draws attention to concerned once but doesn't follow it through or state his own feelings and why he is drawing attention to it

In other words, deaths and the massclaim have proven that jvw's attentions have been focussed on town players the whole game. Has barely even commented on anyone else.

JVW, who's scum?

Concerned:
voted fifi and seemed to think that jvw came out of that interchange looking townish. Switches to vote cyanide (who I think is sk), despite not seeming to think that fifi was any less scummy but attention was starting to shift away from fifi. Still keeps fifi in his sights though and jumps back to fifi when 'the cyanide wagon isn't happening'. Following fifi's claim, list of scummiest players is Cyanide, Suave, Haylen, BV310, 3 of which are town. Today – leaning town with almightybob, jvw and fitz.

Concerned's main target, other than the failed bandwagoning of day 1, has been cyanide/llama, who I think is anti-town.

Having read through day 1 again, I would like to revise my opinion on who the likely third scum partner is from dramonica. I don't have much to say on confidanon and his replacements as there has been a distinct lack of activity, but he distanced himself from concerned with votes and posts in day 1, and given my tendency to think concerned is scum, this sits well with me.

I'm considering almightybob but all I have on this are links I see with the two aforementioned players. Concerned said he had a town read on almightybob. Almightybob says he thinks jvw and concerned are pro-town.

Almightybob – One thing I noticed was in situations such as in post 112 – supports the case against fifi but decides against voting. Don't see why he didn't. Supports the case against cyanide as well and backs this up with a vote. Day 1, would vote to lynch – cyanide, fifi, bv and suave. Switches between cyanide, bv and fifi, settling on bv.
Day 2 – voted darkstrike, saying it would take a lot to change his mind
Day 3 – lists players he thinks are pro-town as jvw, concerned and fitz

I've listed them in order of how certain I am that the player is anti-town.

However, one thing I'm wary of and I think we should remember is the fact that those who were less active actually come out looking the better off for being less active, because they don't come up on the vote counts for the dead and confirmed townies who in all honesty were playing terribly and that this is just incidental.

[Mr.Sandman]

If it's just me you want lynched, why just me? You say you're pretty convinced on jvw as well but now he's quite a bit inferior, and yet you haven't expanded on your reasons when prompted (post 528)

I think you're SK because I actually happen to agree with your views on two I think are mafia - jvw and concerned. However, the way cyanide was playing was nothing but anti-town, and your whole case against me was built on using things out of context to cast me in a bad light. This, added to the fact that I can't seem to see any links between you and any of the other players - no slight defenses of you and no real defenses of anyone from you.

[Mr.Sandman]

Yes, what your predecessor has done. Just because you've come doesn't change your role or the way he played it.

No, not OMGUS, more you just made a whole lot of stuff up to try and start a wagon, which is a big scum tell.

As for your question, in this game at this stage, if I had the same degree of certainty on who I thought was who, I would probably prefer mafia. However, we can't afford to leave a SK too long because if we start losing 2 at night it's going to be nigh on impossible soon enough

[Mr.Sandman]

1. The Suave case was his unhelpfulness and active-lurking which seemed scummy. It stayed on him till the end of the day because I wasn't on near the end of the day or else I probably would've changed to make my vote count.

Why should I have opened day 3 by voting for him? There had been a nightkill and a lynch in between. Time to reassess on the basis of new information.

2. I take your point even if I don't agree with it all. I think that kind of analysis has its merits and that it can play a useful role in determining alignments and helping to build cases.

3. I thought the speed was ridiculous and it caught me by surprise. You say yourself, I voted him post hammer thinking it was pre hammer. I wouldn't have voted him if I'd known I was going to hammer

4. No, suave seemed scummiest, so I voted for suave. Has nothing to do with it being an easy wagon. It's to do with who you think is scummiest.

5. I agree that instinctual moves are probably more revealing. However, the fact you want to bring that out at l-1 is wrong, given that it opens me up to be quick hammered more easily

[Mr.Sandman]

Llama: He's either really into-it scum or into-it townie. There's a slight contradiction in the way he votes Sandman for not taking hard stances, and then admits that he goes back and forth on Sandman.

I dont think ive been going back and forth on sandman here. I have been trying to get him lynched since my second post in the game.

Sandman has picked things up a bit.

He is just defending against me and "summarizing what others have done"

Read my posts. I'm not defending or just summarizing what others have done. I've defended against you because you're attacking me and I've attacked you for your argument because most of it is built on misrepping. I've set out who I find scummy and why.

I think the reasoning behind not setting out your reasons on JVW is also weak - because 'it'll distract people from voting for sandman'. In what way is that helpful to the town? There are four scum out there, regardless of whether you find me the scummiest or not

@Concerned, I might be misinterpreting what you're saying but in my eyes, it's not the town's main priority to lynch scum because the town doesn't win until scum and the sk are gone, as both are equally anti-town. I take AMB's point however, that at the moment, it's probably more useful to lynch scum

[Mr.Sandman]

Oh dear. Even one of the confirmed townies thinks I'm scum. In response to what you say about me, netapolis, I know it might look like it reading up with a fresh pair of eyes, but I in no ways intended to hammer darkstrike. I think it should be obvious given that I placed the l+1 vote that this is the case. If I'd known that he had already hammered, would I draw attention to myself as scum by adding another vote on the wagon?
I will however, be the first to admit that it wasn't the best town play as I should have counted up votes before I placed mine.

In response to your second part, I feel I have pushed my ideas, perhaps not so much day 1, but day 2, I saw what I thought was scummy and I voted for it, and today - specifically on llama. I think its a good point to raise however and I think a number of players are guilty of this. Considering he's pretty much guaranteed town, MrSuave, has been virtually useless - hasn't pushed anything himself, has barely even commented on other players pushes, basically just active lurking. Fifi before you was pretty similar, although it looks like that may change now. Dramonica and his predecessors have yet to contribute anything significant.

Also, why are you so sure concerned is town?

[Mr.Sandman]

Fair enough, I guess I can only give my word for it.

I have a scummy read on concerned primarily because of his day 1 activities - voting fifi, moving away when bandwagon seemed to lose momentum, only to move back again, supporting jvw, and listing scummiest players 3 out of 4 of which are town. He hasn't been particularly active today.

You seem pretty darn certain, however.

[Mr.Sandman]

but I can't put my finger on it

Indeed! While logically Sandman is a good lynch, I would like to hold off until at least a few more questions get answered:

This just confirms my opinion of you. I'm 'logically' a good lynch? What does that even mean? You've barely even raised any suspicion of me before, even as recently as the top of the page. You agree with suave saying there's something not right and yet what you still prepare yourself for jumping on this bandwagon at a later stage, whilst trying to cover your back at the same time

[Mr.Sandman]

Dramonic is active elsewhere but has yet to make any significant contribution in this game, which doesn't exactly endear me to him

[Mr.Sandman]

Well that's me at L-1. Just need the scum that is jvw to come on and lynch me now. At least the town should actually get some information out of this lynch.

For what its worth and I don't know why I didn't do it earlier but

vote jvw

[Mr.Sandman]

Looks like I'm a goner then

[Mr.Sandman]

I reckon you already know

[Mr.Sandman]

Bah. As soon as I realised that vote I did, I knew I'd be in for it. And to think at one point I had llama, almightybob and concerned all down as anti-town Well played, scum