Mini 911 - Mike's Pizzeria Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:53 pm

Post by Seven »

Why do people have to get scummier after I make up my mind...
I like both of our new replacements' posts so far. Both Shiverer and Radical Hijinx gave me a pro-town impression on the whole, so I'm willing to see past my suspicion of SeerPenguin for now.
I agree with Shiv *shock!* that this statement is weird considering what happens later on, especially considering I find Shiv the scummiest player atm. I don't see how he's been neutral, let alone "pro-town"... That's really the issue here, the use of the word "pro-town". It suggests he's done something special to make it onto the good list, when I find the posts he makes after this and lead up to your putting him on your scum list more town than anything else he's done this game. The only reason I can see for those last posts to make him scummy to you is OMGUS.

I don't think Shiv is tunneling. He's focused on a couple players and been open to discussing anything. Tunneling to me would be if he were pushing for a lynch on someone and refusing to acknowledge that other players are acting scummy (DS, for example).

I was prepared to drop my suspicions of PJ when Jack replaced in because I was getting a generally town feel from him (despite his unwillingness to read). His recent defense of evilsnail seems kind of weird, though, and I'm keeping the slot on my possibly scum list... only really relevant if evilsnail is scum, though.

My real issues right now are with DS. He's getting scummier with every post.
Giving himself an out to vote me if my wagon gains momentum.
What do I need an out for? I've already stated on previous occasions that I'm suspicious of you. If you keep posting the way you have been all game I will probably end up voting for you, there's no hidden agenda here. If at the end of the day there are more people voting for you than for Shiv, I will switch my vote over to your wagon. I'm satisfied either way at this point.
Seven: "DRK might be scum, but what about Panzer?" "Hey everyone I have vague suspicions about all of you, except Seer and DRK"
Wow, misrep much? I was suspicious of DRK very early on in the game, when I was defending SP. I reread the thread and decided SP was the one who was actually suspicious, and I'm currently voting for his slot. I haven't thought DRK might be scum since the beginning of the game. I think there could be other reasons for the way he's been playing and I see those reasons as more likely than him being scum. And I don't have suspicions about everyone. LS, IK and Thor are on my absolute town list. Everyone else has done something scummy at some point or other in the game, that doesn't mean they're all scum.
Par wrote:Your posts inbetween the last post I read before posting and my big post do not address this question, actually. You only mentioned why you're not going to build a case on me even though you find me scummy.
I repeat, why are you randomly throwing out FoSes without giving reasons for them?
It's not a random FoS, it's a slight tell that I don't care to investigate at this point in the game. Depending on who we lynch today and what happens tomorrow it might warrant looking into. I only mentioned it so that if I do end up using it, there will be some record of me having noticed something and it won't seem to come out of nowhere.

@evilsnail: Why am I not on your scumlist?
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:53 pm

Post by Lastsurvivor »

Edit: You should probably flip those examples around for it to make more sense.
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:18 pm

Post by DeathSauce »

Lastsurvivor wrote: I don't see how. Me saying "Phil is scum because of this this and this" doesn't make my statement any different from "Phil is scum because of this this and this vote: Phil". Feel free to explain, and if I have a sudden epiphany, I will change games.
I don't mean this game in particular, I mean the entire game of Mafia.

I had not noticed when I wrote my earlier post that you have not completed a full game, so perhaps I was hasty.

There are 50 reasons why voting is important, but here's some easy ones: If you say "Phil is scummy", but you don't vote for Phil, I think "LS is distancing".

Alternatively, you say you don't see the point in voting unless it's to hammer or place someone close to lynch. When I see that kind of pattern, I think "LS is opportunistic".

Voting is the only consistent power town has, it's the only way to win. Voting changes behavior patterns and helps find scum.

In summary, voting is important.
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:06 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Pages 27-28

tl;dr
Shiverer is town. Evilsnail is prob-scum. Seven....I have no clue. DS is still scum. DRK needs to stop lurking and iso-read LS.

Today is Tuesday. I said I'd stop lurking today and I plan on holding true to that (but more likely 12 hours from now when I'm slightly less loopy).
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:35 pm

Post by evilsnail »

Shiverer, I honestly meant the same things with "pro-town impression" and "reasonable enough impression." You can tell me I didn't, but, to me, what I said in those two posts is roughly equivalent. Now, I'm not a native speaker, so maybe that's why, but I really don't see the supposed contradiction. I feel like you're hounding me on the basis of very little.
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 pm

Post by evilsnail »

And I put you below DeathSauce/DiamondCrash precisely because I had been getting a good impression from your play.
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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:01 am

Post by Shiverer »

I don't think you need to be a native English speaker to know what pro-town means. It's a technical term.
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:01 am

Post by evilsnail »

I was more thinking that maybe "reasonable" has a different meaningblob to you than it does to me. But anyway, it doesn't matter why your interpretation should be different. I meant the same with "reasonable enough" and "pro-town."
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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:54 am

Post by Lastsurvivor »

DeathSauce wrote:
Lastsurvivor wrote: I don't see how. Me saying "Phil is scum because of this this and this" doesn't make my statement any different from "Phil is scum because of this this and this vote: Phil". Feel free to explain, and if I have a sudden epiphany, I will change games.
I don't mean this game in particular, I mean the entire game of Mafia.
I know, I meant the entire game of mafia too.


There are 50 reasons why voting is important, but here's some easy ones: If you say "Phil is scummy", but you don't vote for Phil, I think "LS is distancing".
You're right, and I am aware of that, so I might have not phrased it right. Maybe I should say "I don't vote unless I'm very sure that someone is scum." and I don't toss out votes as much as most people do.
Alternatively, you say you don't see the point in voting unless it's to hammer or place someone close to lynch. When I see that kind of pattern, I think "LS is opportunistic".
Well, I was speaking in general. Like I said, I should probably retract what I said before.
Voting is the only consistent power town has, it's the only way to win. Voting changes behavior patterns and helps find scum.

In summary, voting is important.
True, but I don't think I have to throw my vote out everytime I place a simple FoS on someone.

Anywaaay, I'm going to do an ISO on a couple people, and see what I come up with.
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:54 am

Post by Lastsurvivor »

Gaah, messed up on quote tags.
Better? -DF
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:03 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

I iso'd LS (yay for being lazy and delaying a few days. I wouldn't be happy with his lynch.

The one big thing I don't particularly like about him is that he seems to have a tendency to ask a lot of questions and then seem rather disinterested in the answers. I would argue this is more of an interest-tell than it is an alignment tell though.

I would be more inclined to look at the possibility of an LS lynch if Seven were scum, but even then, I think it would be pretty hit or miss.
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:10 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Lastsurvivor
@Parama

We're a little less then a week out of deadline and neither of you are currently voting. I would like to hear who your current top suspect is and why.
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:55 pm

Post by Parama »

Shiverer wrote:
Parama wrote:He replaced out fairly quickly though so there was little time for him to make an impression, though.
This makes me uneasy. You're using the short duration of Radical Hijinx's stay to soften your stated suspicion of him. I understand where you're coming from, but it still doesn't make sense because he
did
leave an impression: You explicitly FOSed him and you listed his play of him as a reason to suspect me (i.e., my slot), twice. Why does the fact that his participation was momentary cut him slack? That seems to me like a pretty silly reason, and in my experience silly reasons often turn out to be excuses for scum to opportunistically shift gears.
It was in response to evilsnail mentioning Radical Hijinx as townie. RH certainly left a scummy impression to me, not denying that. But I don't see why evilsnail got a townie read. My guess is that the short time he was in for didn't give evilsnail enough time to get an impression of him. My read on you is neutral at this point if you wanted to know.
Shiverer wrote:
evilsnail wrote:his play hasn't really put up him at the top of my scumlist or townlist so far, but reading him in ISO I get a mildly scummy vibe
evilsnail wrote:Lastsurvivor is pretty far down on my suspect list
:?:

"Mildly scummy vibe" but "pretty far down my suspect list"? Your list must be pretty long.

Actually, who are your suspects? DRK and . . . ?
If you saw my 5-FoS posts you'd understand why "mildly scummy" can be pretty far down the list.
Honestly I'm not getting good vibes from any player in this game, though a few are worse than others. More on that later.
Lastsurvivor wrote:@Response to iso 24: When I have a 'slight' suspicion, it means that that person is acting scummy, but I'm not totally sure if they're scum. Also, how can I be appeasing to both sides if I'm FoSing the both of them? I can see where you're getting it with Dana and IK (since I'm actually defending IK, and I do speak passively a bit), but not sure where you're getting it here.
It's more trying not to take a side than appealing to both, but since each wanted you to FoS the other that's the real "appeal" (though likely negated by having FoSes on both but yeah...)
I don't have a strong scum read on you tbh, and the only things I really have I've already said.
DeathRowKitty wrote:<tunnel>The only two players DeathSauce has given opinions on outside of his first post are me and Seven. Heck, he didn't give real opinions of anyone else in his first post either, despite voting dana.</tunnel>

More votes on him,
please
? See, I even said the magic word. And italicized it!

As for the other stuff I should be responding to/giving opinions of LS, I'll do that when I stop lurking. Which is probably Tuesday.
It's fine that you're voting someone who nobody else seems to care about right now but I'd like your opinions on more current events before we discuss DeathSauce.
Shiverer wrote:
evilsnail wrote:My scumlist is something like this:

DRK
DeathSauce / DiamondCrash
Radical Penguin Shiverer
Three posts ago, evilsnail wrote:
I like both of our new
replacements' posts so far.
Both Shiverer and Radical Hijinx gave me a pro-town
impression on the whole, so I'm
willing to see past my suspicion
of SeerPenguin for now.
I did my best Las Vegas lights imitation. Forgetting your reads this far into the game = scum.
Nice catch there.
FoS: evilsnail

It's not necessarily a scumtell but I hate when people contradict themselves. That's the scumtell I look for a lot - contradictions.
Seven wrote:
Par wrote:Your posts inbetween the last post I read before posting and my big post do not address this question, actually. You only mentioned why you're not going to build a case on me even though you find me scummy.
I repeat, why are you randomly throwing out FoSes without giving reasons for them?
It's not a random FoS, it's a slight tell that I don't care to investigate at this point in the game. Depending on who we lynch today and what happens tomorrow it might warrant looking into. I only mentioned it so that if I do end up using it, there will be some record of me having noticed something and it won't seem to come out of nowhere.
Why did you even mention it in the first place then?
Thor665 wrote:@Parama

We're a little less then a week out of deadline and neither of you are currently voting. I would like to hear who your current top suspect is and why.
Hmm...
I have no clue. I have plenty of minor suspicions but nothing worth voting over. Evilsnail/Seven/DeathSauce would probably be my 3 scum just by separate reasons (evilsnail for the contradictions and wishy-washyness, Seven for leaving himself open to any lynch, and DeathSauce for rarely saying anything relevant (two most recent post are information with no analysis) but I don't feel DeathSauce and Seven could be scum together unless they have mastered the art of bussing.
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:04 pm

Post by Shiverer »

evilsnail wrote:I was more thinking that maybe "reasonable" has a different meaningblob to you than it does to me. But anyway, it doesn't matter why your interpretation should be different. I meant the same with "reasonable enough" and "pro-town."
So you say.
Parama wrote:If you saw my 5-FoS posts you'd understand why "mildly scummy" can be pretty far down the list.
Yeah, but doling out five FOSes in a mini isn't a good thing.
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:14 pm

Post by Parama »

Yeah I realize that. I narrowed it down later, those were just the FoSes I got from reading through the few pages I had to catch up on. A few of those probably qualified as "mildly scummy" but not much more anyways.
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:18 pm

Post by Seven »

It's fine that you're voting someone who nobody else seems to care about right now but I'd like your opinions on more current events before we discuss DeathSauce.
I think DS is pretty damn current. Just because he posts one-liners and doesn't read half what's going on doesn't mean we should ignore him. He's the second scummiest player right now, I don't understand why more people aren't voting for him (including myself).
Why did you even mention it in the first place then?
I answered you in the very same post you quoted.
Seven for leaving himself open to any lynch
Not sure what you mean by this?

And
@DS
are you ever going to bother answering any single post of mine with more than "let's lynch Sev"? You've done a brilliant job at avoiding so far, but I'm tired of waiting.
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:19 pm

Post by Seven »

Oh and those other quotes are all from Par, sorry.
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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Lastsurvivor »

At the moment, Jack isn't bringing any redemption to the chamber slot. Iso's and stuff tomorrow, probably.
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:13 pm

Post by DeathSauce »

Seven wrote:
It's fine that you're voting someone who nobody else seems to care about right now but I'd like your opinions on more current events before we discuss DeathSauce.
I think DS is pretty damn current. Just because he posts one-liners and doesn't read half what's going on doesn't mean we should ignore him
Number one, this question is not directed at you, your scumbuddies have got to be pissed that you are identifying them this way. Secondly, I do not change my playstyle for anyone. I play mafia by posting direct, short, keys for other players to examine in further detail. I should also point out that I do read long posts, I just hate them and try to actively discourage them.
And
@DS
are you ever going to bother answering any single post of mine with more than "let's lynch Sev"? You've done a brilliant job at avoiding so far, but I'm tired of waiting.
What questions? Repeat them, I just checked your iso and the only questions you directed at me were obnoxious, sarcastic and self-serving. I assumed they were rhetorical.
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:40 pm

Post by Shiverer »

Anyone FOSing evilsnail needs to be upgrading that FOS to a vote. Anyone not FOSing evilsnail needs to be voting evilsnail.
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:44 pm

Post by DeathSauce »

And everyone else should be voting for Seven.
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Meh, I consider the evilsnail case to be one based off of semantics and not a real showcase of actually scummy behavior.

I'd still much rather lynch DRK for his scummy pushes and questionable content providing.
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:46 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Parama wrote: It's fine that you're voting someone who nobody else seems to care about right now but I'd like your opinions on more current events before we discuss DeathSauce.
DS is alive in the game. Therefore, he is current. And he is currently scummy.
Thor wrote: I'd still much rather lynch DRK for his scummy pushes and questionable content providing.
</3

Right now, I'd be fine with a DS lynch or an ES lynch. I'd be more fine with a DS lynch.
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

DRK - what do you see as the primary reason you would be fine with an evilsnail lynch?
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:29 am

Post by Parama »

Lastsurvivor wrote:At the moment, Jack isn't bringing any redemption to the chamber slot. Iso's and stuff tomorrow, probably.
I don't agree with this statement.
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