Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Hoopla]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox Ellibereth
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 1 ) farside22
farside22 ( 1 ) popsofctown
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 3 ) gayle elvis_knits fishythefish
Raskol ( 1 ) mykonian
Rhinox ( 1 ) ojanen
Maelyn ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 4 ) CSL Raskol Hoopla Maelyn
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

There's only so much 'discussion' the human mind has the ability to critically analyse. Once there is too much, people resort to out-of-context isoreads and summaries of previous events to base their reads on. I'm not saying lynch quickly. I'm saying don't waste 20+ pages per lynch, because every day we get someone new who has to read it all, and won't be able to use the information effectively anyway.

The post count is growing so fast because

other people

are scum hunting. You are telling everyone else to slow down in order to benefit you. When you replaced into the game it became

your

responsibility to keep up, not everyone else's responsibility to slow down.

I know this. But when we get a new person entering the universe every day, it's a significant amount of people that have to wade through all the 'discussion'. I'll laugh if we get to page 60 and we're still on day 2.

[Ellibereth]

CSL is scum because:

1) He vote Myko based on the scum slip (bad vote at best, IMO), then he unvoted like a scared puppy. Later, myko isn't even on his scum list.

2) He said he wasn't following Plum, which he clearly was, especially given the page number he said he was on when he voted.

3) Not giving any reasoning for his votes.

4) Asking to be allowed to live to night, saying he's okay with being NKed. He's hinting at being the teleporter, right?

Lynch plz.

[evilsnail]

What's wrong with that?

Nothing necessarily, but it's an easy scum strategy, which is why I asked.

@Ellibereth: Fishythefish, and I still like that vote.

[Hoopla]

What's wrong with that?

Nothing necessarily, but it's an easy scum strategy, which is why I asked.

If someone has multiple suspicions, vote-hopping between them is perfectly fine, and pushes the game forward. Consistancy suits scum a lot more.

Unvote, vote: CSL

I've heard enough of the arguments to think it's not a bad lynch.

[Gayle]

I'll laugh if we get to page 60 and we're still on day 2.

Myko has already predicted that we will reach 100 pages by day 3. We still have around 49 pages to go. We can't end the day yet.

[elvis_knits]

Well, I can see why you were teleported over here. You always this wagon-happy?

Yes, she usually is.

[elvis_knits]

Well, I can see why you were teleported over here. You always this wagon-happy?

Yes, she usually is.

Dammit, I thought I was talking about Hoopla. I don't know about Elli.

[elvis_knits]

Gayle makes me wish I was a lesbian.

[Ellibereth]

Well, I can see why you were teleported over here. You always this wagon-happy?

Yes, she usually is.

Dammit, I thought I was talking about Hoopla. I don't know about Elli.

Don't worry I am too.

[mykonian]

myko...

and while Elli starts out scummy (see rhinox's post) I think we are better off leaving him. Best course of action IMO is to send him back tonight. Even if that doesn't happen,

we should leave him for the chance on crosskills.

About crosskills. I wanted that I could share your optimism, but I don't see scum going for scummy players that are zapped in. Neither do I see the new scum shooting other then players that are likely town.

>_>

And Rhinox. The first is the from the point that we shouldn't lynch Elli (since he won't shoot, if he is scum). The second was against (mostly docpotters) idea that we should use crosskills to win the game.

It looks pretty weird this way, but the context is different. And both are arguing from the point that scumhunting for Mafia1 is our most important task.

Gayle used this straigt from Rhinox. Gayle, I understand this can go wrong, but a little theory here:

Contradictions are a special case of the LAL-arguments. They are arguments in this game because they seem pretty convincing, as there

seem

to be 2 or more statements from a player that say something entirely different.

However, these tells are quite ineffective, as both scum and town have totally nothing to gain with it (so it will be a mistake anyway). Then, very few contradictions actually exist. All these arguments usually are started because people don't understand each other good enough. tl;dr, be a little bit careful with arguments like this.

I have no idea what is scummy about those arguments.

Because they are complete nonsense.

That means you don't understand them. What is scummy about those arguments?

I found ABR scummy for his anti counterclaim strategy, which could only have been protown in case he was the mason.

The reason you gave for voting ABR was "yep, I see no counterclaim from ABR: he is likely scum.". That is not "his anti-counter claim strategy is scummy".

it is implied. I can't argue that you should be lynched because you didn't counterclaim.

You first have to do something that makes the counterclaim expected.

I voted multiple people. Why am I scummy? What is the scum benefit, or why am I antitown for that? On both there is no answer: the answer it is my playstyle.

What makes it scummy are your reasons for voting.

I agreed on some cases, I have a large case on raskol who after that disappeared (something you conveniantly forgot). Are you going to argue that saying "I agree, good case, vote" is bad? You probably can make something nice out of that, but it is what I thought then, so it is what I do. I am not going make an extra point because that is expected...

mhmm. I like to work on the lynch quite early in the day, since serious wagons give me most information vote-wise. Hoopla's try with bandwagons that are just 3 members long are not very effective.

Are you saying that less discussion gives you more information?

stereotype. I believe that more discussion makes usefull information harder to find, and that information without pressure from the lynch is less interesting then information close to a lynch.

The only mistake I can have made is if Elvis is correct, and scum wants to stay together. I hadn't thought of that.

I'll try to get the scum doesn't want to be teleported in my mind.

oh, ok. Didn't think of it that way. That could make sense (if your suspicion is correct)

Why would you think that scum wanted to be seperated?

I never thought they would care. Where did I say they liked to be separated?

[popsofctown]

[Lynch Quickly]

If the thread is growing quickly it is because there is a lot of discussion. You are suggesting quick lynching in order to purposely stifle discussion. That is an awfully scummy suggestion.

Also, pops and Elli agree with your strategy, and they are both scum.

Hoopla genuinely believes every word of that, whichever alignment she has Gayle. She said the same thing in Mafia 105 when she was town. Wait, you had no way of knowing that..

I made a post about it.

did you?


It's k. I know it's easier for you to get to your wincon by calling it scummy first and doing any necessary homework later.



@Myko: who are you voting and why? Your posts are long walls of defense, and I space out by the time you talk about any targets.

[mykonian]

There's only so much 'discussion' the human mind has the ability to critically analyse. Once there is too much, people resort to out-of-context isoreads and summaries of previous events to base their reads on. I'm not saying lynch quickly. I'm saying don't waste 20+ pages per lynch, because every day we get someone new who has to read it all, and won't be able to use the information effectively anyway.

The post count is growing so fast because

other people

are scum hunting. You are telling everyone else to slow down in order to benefit you. When you replaced into the game it became

your

responsibility to keep up, not everyone else's responsibility to slow down.

WRONG. Replacements are life, don't annoy them. The game is hard to read, and is long. The least you can do is helping them getting into the game, because they replace for you. The same with teleportation, only is that is something inside the game, while replacements are from outside the game.

Further, with 150/1200 I have made about 1/8 of the posts, with an average of over 14 players. Does this mean I'm scumhunting? (Please answer this, because I love the question. Or you have to admit you are attacking someone who is scumhunting a lot, or you have to admit that posting can very well be useless. With both I have no problem )

[popsofctown]

When you ignore questions from other posters you're pretty useless

[mykonian]

I am voting raskol, for my early case (avoidance, bad votes, clearly seeking a way for his votes), then lurking out.

Sadly, he is replaced now, so I don't see anything happening there. I fear this person will become instantly "neutral" again.

And the solution is simple,

don't attack me multiple times with the same point.

Then I won't have to clarify and clarify.

[Ellibereth]

People should be voting CSl, I want him dead by this page.

[mykonian]

I won't.

[elvis_knits]

pops, what do you think of mykonian?

[popsofctown]

Seems like another innocent victim of the girls' club. I don't remember anything against him making sense, but he gets attacked all the time.

[Ellibereth]

Also note that Csl is posting in his other games and is avoiding this one.

[mykonian]

Seems like another innocent victim of the girls' club. I don't remember anything against him making sense, but he gets attacked all the time.

I seem to make people that way. Though it can be solved easily:

Whoever posts a case, please don't only quote posts, but argue why that certain post is scummy. In case your reasoning from post to scumminess is too unlikely, please leave it out for readability.

Reasoning from info-> scumminess always include meta, since you usually can't say something is scummy unless that person would do so as scum, or wouldn't do so as town. (general meta can be used), and it usually is about how likely someone is to make a mistake

If all this works, you actually have a good argument. And this eliminates

a lot

of the points against me

[mykonian]

Also note that Csl is posting in his other games and is avoiding this one.

you want to policy lynch him?

[Gayle]

Gayle used this straigt from Rhinox.

That only means that Rhinox was onto something. The fact that someone brought it up before me does not make it any less scummy.

Gayle, I understand this can go wrong, but a little theory here:

Contradictions are a special case of the LAL-arguments. They are arguments in this game because they seem pretty convincing, as there

seem

to be 2 or more statements from a player that say something entirely different.

However, these tells are quite ineffective, as both scum and town have totally nothing to gain with it (so it will be a mistake anyway). Then, very few contradictions actually exist. All these arguments usually are started because people don't understand each other good enough.

tl;dr, be a little bit careful with arguments like this.

tl;dr Even though I blatantly contradicted myself, you shouldn't find that scummy.

Fix'd.

That means you don't understand them. What is scummy about those arguments?

You don't believe there is anything wrong with claiming that you are town just because you attacked a specific player? Or immediately claiming that a player is trying to look town by voting and posting reasons for said vote?

it is implied. I can't argue that you should be lynched because you didn't counterclaim.

You first have to do something that makes the counterclaim expected.

You previously argued that the problems between DGB and ABR were personal. You argued multiple times that this should be obvious to anyone. You even suggested using our teleporter to alleviate the problem. When the town turned against ABR, you no longer found it personal?

Are you going to argue that saying "I agree, good case, vote" is bad?

Yes.

You probably can make something nice out of that, but it is what I thought then, so it is what I do.

It is still scummy.

stereotype. I believe that more discussion makes useful information harder to find, and that information without pressure from the lynch is less interesting then information close to a lynch.

Do you disagree that the more discussion there is, the more useful information there is to find?

I never thought they would care. Where did I say they liked to be separated?

The point isn't that you said "Scum want to be separated", the point is that you are claiming that it never occurred to you that scum would not want to be separated.

[elvis_knits]

Seems like another innocent victim of the girls' club. I don't remember anything against him making sense, but he gets attacked all the time.

Then why did you post this:

When you ignore questions from other posters you're pretty useless.

Because it just seemed like you were enflaming the myko-hate by posting that, and enouraging more fighting.

(Also, "another innocent victim of the girls' club" really rubs me the wrong way. You can consider your application denied.)

[mykonian]

GAYLE: read the explanation of your "contradiction" Don't stupidly hammer on with your "fixed" which is plain stupid.

Further, I see very little "misleading" here. You simply did it off as "I saw that happening in his discussions/debates". Now you did have to come up with something, and this is the mess it gives.

That means you don't understand them. What is scummy about those arguments?

You don't believe there is anything wrong with claiming that you are town just because you attacked a specific player? Or immediately claiming that a player is trying to look town by voting and posting reasons for said vote?

your interpretation. I never said, nor meant that. I think I have once said it would be stupid to say someone lied, and it was not very smart to provoke someone you know would react extremely. I did anyway. Never I claim to be town.

it is implied. I can't argue that you should be lynched because you didn't counterclaim.

You first have to do something that makes the counterclaim expected.

You previously argued that the problems between DGB and ABR were personal. You argued multiple times that this should be obvious to anyone. You even suggested using our teleporter to alleviate the problem. When the town turned against ABR, you no longer found it personal?

There was never a choice between lynching or teleporting. when I stated the teleportation, it didn't look like the problem would be solved by a lynch of one of them. So I argued for the teleportation of one of them. When ABR didn't want the counterclaim to happen, that was scummy, yes. I waited with the vote for a counterclaim from him.

Are you going to argue that saying "I agree, good case, vote" is bad?

Yes.

your problem, not mine. The only way you can argue for that is in case someone doesn't bring anything new: I did. You act like I have to prove myself

stereotype. I believe that more discussion makes useful information harder to find, and that information without pressure from the lynch is less interesting then information close to a lynch.

Do you disagree that the more discussion there is, the more useful information there is to find?

you don't read. The harder it is to find as there is more rubbish.

I never thought they would care. Where did I say they liked to be separated?

The point isn't that you said "Scum want to be separated", the point is that you are claiming that it never occurred to you that scum would not want to be separated.

Exactly. It never did.

[CSL]

Funny thing is, though, it's Day 2. I stopped worrying about getting lynched/NK'd after the start of it.

Another thing, good luck lynching me on this page.