Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

My guess is that he hasn't been contributing a lot, but lurkers are generally my last line of attack. I'd love to hear a case on me.

[The Quintastic One]

The way I see it, if you honestly feel as if you are no longer invested in the game, have no interest to convince anybody of your suspicions, basically admitting that you don't care anymore. I would request that you replace out. We can get more information from an enthusiastic and active player than we can from someone who only posts when he feels like it, and even when he posts, it adds zero to the conversation.

[The Quintastic One]

And just for the sake of argument, I'll go ahead and aim at Coug with my thoughts on him.

I actually have a gut feeling that you are scum. But for obvious reasons (no evidence to back it up, my own anti-towness making it hard enough as it is to take my opinion seriously, your inability to defend against a gut suspicion) I haven't been pursuing you. If anything pursuing lynches on a gut reaction with no real evidence gets you lynched (see TBM), so I don't currently have a case on you. But I believe my feeling may have something to do with your pursuing of the Zang lynch since I haven't seen anything to convince me beyond "He was the hammer".

[Jack]

A few people are mentioning Crueltyscum, whats the case there?

He came in near the end of day one with no vote, and a little bit that would let him go either way on TQO. Never said much about finding TBM suspicious, but jumped on his wagon very awkwardly (gut feel). Said it was a good lynch because nothing happens day 1 and a mislynch would give us tons of information. But today he hasn't posted a lot or used any of that information.

[The Quintastic One]

I've noticed today that alot of people arn't posting much anymore. That's probably because we lost PaltryExcuse and he was pretty active at getting questions out there. But it seems like we just lynched TBM and the town gave up on trying to find more scum while the suspicions have given up trying to defend themselves. As everyone else already has their vote on who they want their vote on and nobody else is budging in their beliefs on who is scum.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I've noticed today that alot of people arn't posting much anymore. That's probably because we lost PaltryExcuse and he was pretty active at getting questions out there. But it seems like we just lynched TBM and the town gave up on trying to find more scum while the suspicions have given up trying to defend themselves. As everyone else already has their vote on who they want their vote on and nobody else is budging in their beliefs on who is scum.

I think most of us simply don't know. I have not seen anything scummy from anyone, just anti-town.

[StrangerCoug]

I still like my SCyan-Zang-Jack theory. I think we have some consensus that they have not been acting pro-town (Zang especially), but we can't agree on a lynch.

And I missed this:

And just for the sake of argument, I'll go ahead and aim at Coug with my thoughts on him.

I actually have a gut feeling that you are scum. But for obvious reasons (no evidence to back it up, my own anti-towness making it hard enough as it is to take my opinion seriously, your inability to defend against a gut suspicion) I haven't been pursuing you. If anything pursuing lynches on a gut reaction with no real evidence gets you lynched (see TBM), so I don't currently have a case on you. But I believe my feeling may have something to do with your pursuing of the Zang lynch since I haven't seen anything to convince me beyond "He was the hammer".

There is a lot more to it than just being the hammer. How many of these reasons/things TheButtonmen did/whatever you want to call them are legitimately scummy?

-argues with Jack about cop investigating town
-votes tqo with no reasoning
-questions jacks setup
-accuses tqo of sounding scummy everytime he posts
-calls tqo "super new"
-Says that tqo has flawed logic
-tells Jack to vote tqo
-accuses tqo of exajerrating
-criticizes tqo for claiming a power role
-says that everytime tqo is questioned he says how obvtown he Is
-Says that tqo had bad logic (again)
-questions tqo
-says that I am scum with logic that I do not understand
-Calls tqo a liar
-accuses tqo of changing his story
-explains his logic for why he said I was scummy
-admits that he was going for the easy lynch (tqo)
-once again he sais that tqo has changed his story and lied multiple times
-criticizes Jack
-once again calls tqo a liar
-misspells my name
-questions paltry
-defends himself against paltry
-sais that cruelty hates day one

I count two out of 24. How about the rest of this town?

[SIR CYANIDE]

I just re-read Jack in ISO.

From all the players he looks most scummy to me (although ironically he doesn't look most anti-town). His whole theory about the 'mafiascum.net townie' and the ideology and stuff REALLY REALLY looks like backpedaling to me, to make up for his previous anti-town behavior (being OK with TQO having a distorted view of reality, not helping or clearing things up, ...,). It seems to me that he is hiding behind this as a guise of some sorts.

[Jack]

I do think TQO is ok. The rant thing was cause I just got lynched in another game because of silly "yeh ok" type votes.

The scummy thing I've done is waffle on zang, that looks bad if he flips mafia. But I had just moved him to townie mentally while I was going with tbm-vivi-cruelty and didn't check up on him again when tbm turned out town.

[The Quintastic One]

Only thing I can tell you Sir Cy is that of course nobody is going to know. Unless there was a cop investigation and they openly on Day 2 say who they found 100% innocent or scum then we've got no leads. If nobody sticks out as scummy after 21 pages of discussion then either the scum is playing a perfect game or the town is inept at finding scum. Either way, town is screwed if we can't think of something.

[Jack]

The town is fine. Cruelty is probably mafia and zang has a good chance too. It's only after that that it gets murky.

[The Quintastic One]

You say that but there's not enough support on either of those wagons right now to get a lynch. lol. The way this game is stagnating I'm guessing we'll probably just end up stalling out til the deadline and the majority lynch (Zang right now) will happen whether the rest of us agree to it or not.

[cruelty]

Vote: Cruelty

For a different reason than I asked him about.

Which is?




Still struggling to get a handle on TQO. I don't think you've redeemed yourself at all (despite your claims to the contrary). I find there to be a curious contradiction in your posts - the newbish posts are VERY newbish, but there are also some posts where you're logical and on point. I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't some sort of weird fake-newb gambit because I'm really have a hard time reconciling what almost seems to be two different personalities.

Dunno about the case on me. I've been a little inactive but I've explained why and it should change from now on. The TBM thing, shrug. Didn't really see him as a town asset and didn't feel like pushing another wagon. I was satisfied with him being lynched.

I have a bit more to say but people just arrived here so I'll be back later today/early tomorrow.

[Zang]

Ok, some questions-

cruelty-Why do you think strangercoug is scum?

Tqo-Besides Jack, are you suspicous of anybody?

Agar, vivi , fat Tony and zhero-who do you think is scum?

[cruelty]

Actually I'm not sure, I re-read his iso and can't point to a shining example. It's all gut I guess, which I am inclined to be wary of, because I pushed his lynch based on similar feelings in another game and he flipped town. Maybe he's just one of those people who give off a vibe that I pick up on, I'll think about it.

[The Quintastic One]

To Zang: Beyond Jack I have gut scum read on Strangercoug. Fat Tony is also really suspicious to me. Otherwise I don't know where I should look. Cruelty is just doing what everyone else is doing and shrugging off the claims against him and saying he doesn't know what to think about it. So I guess the main thing that's annoying me right now is that guys like Jack, Cruelty & Yourself can just coast through the arguments presented against you and shrug your shoulders as if you don't know what to think about it and they are getting away with it. In any other mafia game on here any one of you would of been lynched by now for your behavior. Whether I feel it's scummy or not in any circumstance, I feel like the town has given up this game after we lynched TBM and he wasn't scum. We were all so convinced he was guilty yet he wasn't, so I think the town has lost their will to push for anymore lynches. So at this point I'd rather the town lynch me and get the game moving already rather than sit here and act like we're all clueless pretending like we've really went through 21 pages and nobody can think of a target worthy of a majority vote.

[cruelty]

lol?

What do you expect, that people are going to be supportive of arguments against them?

I don't think there's much of a case against me, it seems to be a bunch of circumstantial evidence that people are shoehorning to fit so I'm not really that motivated to defend it, or even to attack the people pushing it.


With regards to Zang I keep changing my mind. On the one hand, yeah he's scummy, but on the other hand his scumminess is barely believable. The problem is (much like TQO) that I don't really have a bad gut vibe from him - I can see his posts coming from newb town with a genuine desire to help and a naive propensity to find the scummiest way he possibly can to contribute.

Having said that, I'll get behind a Zang lynch if the majority want, I'm not going to push his wagon because I'm honestly not completely sold on his guilt (intellectually I'm aware the evidence is stacking up but my head has been wrong lately).


Recent things that interest me:

Jack's little rant in (his iso) 57. I know you've explained it, but I'm not entirely convinced that it wasn't some sort of weird AtE, it just reads strangely. Especially this part:

So don't take it as me trolling or "not helping". I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm just being sincere.

This (the entire post) reads as some sort of attempt to justify what could (and, I suppose, is) considered to be fairly questionable behaviour. The fact that you have a point is somewhat irrelevant in my opinion - ultimately I get the feeling that you're not that concerned about your actual argument as much as you are using that line of reasoning to elude your attackers.


Zhero - you've basically flown under the radar this entire game. I don't really have any issue with anything you've said, but I do note that you're not hugely involved in the game. Possibly a little hypocritical to mention but nonetheless true.


Vivi, as others have said has been next to useless (8 posts, no real info whatsoever). The more I re-read your posts the less I like you, I note specifically your attack on the TBM wagon (Vivi iso 7) and the convenient mini-assault on Zang (iso posts 4-8). The lack of posting makes a read difficult but I get a bad gut vibe, so

vote: Vivi

.

[Fat_Tony]

@ Zang - post 475. Explanations in brief:

You are top of my scumlist, although Jack is edging ever closer into contention. The reasons I think you are scum include your hammer, but more importantly the fact that you have contradicted yourself in this thread on at least one occasion, which suggests to me that you're scum backtracking.

Jack is getting worse, and while his argument about MS.net townies probably has some merit in the general discussion forums, I don't think it's helped his case. I have been uneasy with his play from minute one, and I don't like his excusing lack of activity using lack of interest. Admittedly, I too have been rather scarce this week, but work > mafiascum in terms of life importance to me. While I'm more in favour of disposing of zang, who if he is not mafia, is still not much use to us as town compared to some others, I would probably find it within myself to support a Jack wagon/lynch.

cruelty is more of a gut feeling. The "fuck it, I'm in" on TBM, even though I agreed with the wagon, was really awkward and he has showed a lack of activity (even allowing for the fact he V/LA'd the first week. I also don't really see what he achieves by voting Vivi. He posts a convincing argument about Jack and then votes Vivi on a much less well-developed argument (unless he's going all L-A-Lurkers already, which is just as bad IMO). It's not as strong a case as I feel we have against Jack/Zang, but it's there.

I'm also undecided on the lurkers and also Zhero, who has contributed in fits and starts but hasn't put anything out there that I've really liked or gone "hey, that's a really good point.

My TBM iso will be forthcoming in the next few hours, unless my girlfriend has planned something for Valentine's that I don't know about.

[SIR CYANIDE]

For those who wonder; I will support a lynch on Zang or Jack. StrangerCoug and Vivi, not so much. I fail to see why StrangerCoug is scummy and Vivi would be a policy-lynch, and a rather weak one at that if you ask me. About cruelty, he has raised my eyebrows a few times, but anything grandiose? Not really.

Also,

In any other mafia game on here any one of you would of been lynched by now for your behavior.

lol

[Zang]

To Zang: Beyond Jack I have gut scum read on Strangercoug. Fat Tony is also really suspicious to me. Otherwise I don't know where I should look. Cruelty is just doing what everyone else is doing and shrugging off the claims against him and saying he doesn't know what to think about it. So I guess the main thing that's annoying me right now is that guys like Jack, Cruelty & Yourself can just coast through the arguments presented against you and shrug your shoulders as if you don't know what to think about it and they are getting away with it. In any other mafia game on here any one of you would of been lynched by now for your behavior. Whether I feel it's scummy or not in any circumstance, I feel like the town has given up this game after we lynched TBM and he wasn't scum. We were all so convinced he was guilty yet he wasn't, so I think the town has lost their will to push for anymore lynches. So at this point I'd rather the town lynch me and get the game moving already rather than sit here and act like we're all clueless pretending like we've really went through 21 pages and nobody can think of a target worthy of a majority vote.

mislynches are bad, why do you keep offering yourself for one?do you really think it will help the town?

[SIR CYANIDE]

mislynches are bad, why do you keep offering yourself for one?

Because he is stupid.

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount 15:

Zang - (3) - StrangerCoug, Vivi57, Fat_Tony
cruelty - (2) - Jack, AGar
Jack - (2) - The Quintastic One, Sir Cyanide
Vivi57 - (1) - cruelty

Deadline: February 29th

[Wickedestjr]

Prodding AGar.

[Zhero]

He came in near the end of day one with no vote, and a little bit that would let him go either way on TQO. Never said much about finding TBM suspicious, but jumped on his wagon very awkwardly (gut feel). Said it was a good lynch because nothing happens day 1 and a mislynch would give us tons of information. But today he hasn't posted a lot or used any of that information.

Yeah, reading him in iso I can see what you mean. I kinda feel like there's often the promise of more info, and then not much follow-up. I agree with Fat_Tony as well that his vote on Vivi is pretty weak, though that said, Vivi's getting very worrying. 9 posts in a 21 page thread makes it incredibly hard to get any read at all.

You say that but there's not enough support on either of those wagons right now to get a lynch. lol. The way this game is stagnating I'm guessing we'll probably just end up stalling out til the deadline and the majority lynch (Zang right now) will happen whether the rest of us agree to it or not.

Eh, I'm not too worried about the stalling yet. It looks like a few players, myself included, got hit with real life for awhile there, and the conversation's still moving along.

So at this point I'd rather the town lynch me and get the game moving already rather than sit here and act like we're all clueless pretending like we've really went through 21 pages and nobody can think of a target worthy of a majority vote.

The thread may be 21 pages long, but the Day only recently started. A Day where we're sold on a majority lynch 4 pages in would be far more suspicious to me.

zhero-who do you think is scum?

After going back over the thread, I'm leaning towards Cruelty as my top suspect. His question (what the most important part of the game was) seemed to go nowhere, he talks about developing more information later with no followup, and, of course, his odd bandwagon hop.

Other than Cruelty, StrangerCoug and Sir Cyanide are good alternatives, though I'd have trouble believing they're both scum together. I'll try to flesh that out when I get a chance.

Vote: Cruelty

[Vivi57]

At this point, I can see the mafia team being zang, jack, cruelty

zang I've already talked about before, but if you want, I'll talk more

jack... I still don't hate his claim as cop, but his posts of just "giving up" on page 20 just give me a really bad feeling. It seems like he felt backed into a corner and threw out that as an excuse to not have to write up replies where he keeps contradicting himself and making himself look scummier.

cruelty. the tbm wagon, post 347 "ah fuck it, I'm in." this is the first thing I have a problem with. Maybe I missed it, but what was the information you claimed we gained from a tbm mislynch? I also don't like 400 where you're pushing the day1 lynch even harder. Then reading the your last post, I found this little gem:

Well, L1 isn't a lynch.

I gotta come clean though, I'm fairly apathetic about the game right now and I would like for something to happen that grabs my interest.

I'm not 100% behind the TBM lynch (I suspect mainly because I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to him, something I'll rectify tomorrow), but I'm willing to look a little scummy and jump on the wagon

, unless there's a viable alternative (which I don't really expect there to be).

With regards to Zang I keep changing my mind. On the one hand, yeah he's scummy, but on the other hand his scumminess is barely believable. The problem is (much like TQO) that I don't really have a bad gut vibe from him - I can see his posts coming from newb town with a genuine desire to help and a naive propensity to find the scummiest way he possibly can to contribute.

Having said that, I'll get behind a Zang lynch if the majority want, I'm not going to push his wagon because I'm honestly not completely sold on his guilt

(intellectually I'm aware the evidence is stacking up but my head has been wrong lately).