Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[Fat_Tony]

my top suspects are sir cyanide and Jack.

Why?

Since we know now that he is confirmed town, and since the standard of play so far in this one has been fairly poor from all sides, I have no problem believing that the NK was down to scum-Zang having figured out that he was probably going to get owned by Paltry in D2, and acting out of desperation. I am definitely looking for some decent work by Zang to keep him from being our daykill today.

This is pretty WIFOMy though.. and Zang wouldn't be the only mafioso. Nor was Paltry the only person to express suspicion of Zang on Day 1.

Don't get me wrong though, Zang's play is pretty worrying.

Quickly as I have a couple of minutes left - I appreciate that both thsoe things you say are true - however, given the standard of his play and the amount of suspicion already upon him, I can imagine the scum players being willing to get rid of Zang in order to limit the damage he can do. Best way for them to do this - take out the guy who very strongly attacked and cast suspicion on Zang after his hammer.

I realise it would be a REALLY obvious/bad play from Zang's POV... but this is Zang.

And finally - my scumlist: Zang, Jack, cruelty. Elaborations next time, here on Mafia.

[Zang]

Jack-basically, his biggest mistake was his cop claim, he had no reason for it and I don't think he ever did explain why he did do it.

Since it's moved beyond the useful now, I'll state the obvious: it was a bit of a joke to get some discussion started. I often do this. The random vote stage annoys me. I very carefully

didn't

claim cop btw. You can call it a soft claim, but what cop in their right mind soft claims page one? That isn't even wifom.

I realized that it was a joke but it was still a big mistake

explain how it was a mistake. He just wanted to get discussion going and he succeeded. Are you trying to say that jack generating discussion is a bad thing?

well it is not bad to get discussion started but what was bad was how he did it.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I'm not saying I like Jack's play or some of his answers to my questions but to play Devil's Advocate: I really don't think Jack thought about that investigation-line further than 'it will create discussion'.

Things such as 'there is no right answer' etc. probably have not been thought about. I was surprised how that soaked up so much attention, too.

[Jack]

I would like to lynch cruelty. Not feeling the urge to do anything else, like argue or defend myself or look for other suspects.

[Zang]

Jack-you still haven't answered tqos question

To Jack: Elaborate as to why Strangercoug is climbing up your list of scum. Did something happen that's caught your eye? Just saying your suspicions without reason isn't going to convince anybody.

[Jack]

I'm not interested in convincing anybody at the moment.

[SIR CYANIDE]

Yeh ok.

Vote: Jack

[Jack]

Yeh ok.

Vote: Jack

Why is this?

[Jack]

ok, I looked over todays comments and I think I see where this is heading. I was lynched for it as town in another game recently.

On mafiascum there is a set of rules that townies are supposed to play by. When they don't, they are being antitown and they get voted or lynched. As a matter of principle I disagree strongly with this. As townie you are free. Freedom is the quality possessed by a townie. The can look for scum with complete sincerity. They can say what they are thinking. Scum cannot.

Or at least that's how it should be. Instead as town, you have to constantly

fake

being a "mafiascum.net townie". Which is precisely what the mafia are trying to fake. So you have to fill the game with power roles to let the town catch the mafia. Because we handicap the town to a huge degree by demanding that the fake it.

If I as townie can't honestly say "I'm not interested in convincing anybody", then I have to LIE about it, give my reasons even though I don't want to (faking it), or just not say things like "stranger coug is climbing up my scum ladder" (A lie of omission).

Well, I was never big on playing that way, even though I have for the most part. I don't want to spoil the game for the town by getting myself lynched. But I've lost interest in it.

So don't take it as me trolling or "not helping". I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm just being sincere.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I don't know about other people but we do not really care about your philosophy and point of view. If you play in a way that, in itself (given no other factors), is a perfectly legit and pro-town way to play it does not automatically make you pro-town if certain factors are applied (what is being expected from you, the general metagame of pro-town players here, etc.). If everyone perceives your in itself pro-town play as anti-town play then you either adapt or get the fuck out, save those thoughts for a blog or go share it with your friends.

Here, you play to win.

[StrangerCoug]

Jack, don't resign to being helpless. You make me want to consider putting you in a rope instead of the obvscum Zang and SIR CYANIDE.

[Jack]

I can play that way just fine: "StrangeCoug moved up my scum list because I find his persistence in pushing the zang wagon fakey. He looks more like mafia setting himself up on a scummy-townie lynch then town actually looking for mafia".

So if I choose not to, do you think that makes me scummy?

There isn't any point in playing the game if all you do is act in a fake townie way and vote for people when they don't act in a fake townie win. And the argument in favor of it is self defeating, since voting people for being "anti town" is anti-town.

Why don't you get a gut feel for people and try and find mafia, rather than going off heuristics? It is better to be a man than a robot.

[Jack]

Jack, don't resign to being helpless. You make me want to consider putting you in a rope instead of the obvscum Zang and SIR CYANIDE.

Scummy comment. Zang is not obvscum, people always overpursue the guy who hammered a townie. Why would you consider lynching me based on my comment there?

[Jack]

To be clear, I'm going to go through the thread and hunt down some suspects. I'm going to be vague when my feelings are vague though for example.

I did an ISO read on coug, saw some scummy things that I remembered and some townie things that I didn't.

His interaction with TQO had a bit of weirdness too it, but I wasn't sure what to make of it exactly.

[Zang]

Or at least that's how it should be. Instead as town, you have to constantly fake being a "mafiascum.net townie". Which is precisely what the mafia are trying to fake. So you have to fill the game with power roles to let the town catch the mafia. Because we handicap the town to a huge degree by demanding that the fake it.

well you have to convince people that you are town, it does not matter if you are or not, that is how the game goes. And if you do not like it then do not play the game.

[Jack]

Or at least that's how it should be. Instead as town, you have to constantly fake being a "mafiascum.net townie". Which is precisely what the mafia are trying to fake. So you have to fill the game with power roles to let the town catch the mafia. Because we handicap the town to a huge degree by demanding that the fake it.

well you have to convince people that you are town, it does not matter if you are or not, that is how the game goes. And if you do not like it then do not play the game.

It would be 10x easier to find mafia if everyone posted their thoughts un-edited or revised, and just threw out the backs and forths stream of consciousness style. Much harder for the mafia to fake, anyone can fake the other stuff.

I also find the people who do that way easier to read as town. They are often obv town, but get lynched for it.

This is why the games are packed full of power roles. But perhaps this is more of a mafia discussion topic.

Anyway, I'll reread zang soon out of fairness to coug. I did find him scummy at one point. ->one more comment, you can see how much harder it would be for mafia to remember everything they said if it wasn't genuine and they had to write naturally rather than in prose?

[StrangerCoug]

Jack, don't resign to being helpless. You make me want to consider putting you in a rope instead of the obvscum Zang and SIR CYANIDE.

Scummy comment. Zang is not obvscum, people always overpursue the guy who hammered a townie. Why would you consider lynching me based on my comment there?

I do not view you as suspicious because you do not think Zang is scum for hammering town. I view you as suspicious as you did not answer The Quintastic One and me as to why you think I'm suspicious until SIR CYANIDE voted you for what I interpret as refusing to do so.

Experience has shown me that people do not always overpursue the person that hammered a townie, either. Generally, I do not pursue the person that hammered if the person did so in good faith. However, the hammer here is clearly and admittedly unjustified.

[Jack]

OK, I did a skim reread on everyone but TQO. No cases just gut feels.

Zang probably is scum. I lost sight of him when I was going for tbm-vivi-cruelty. Cruelty is probably the other. I'm getting strong town reads from most of the rest, except for Coug and ConfidAnon. Fat tony seems fine but who knows.

Will go through more and figure who the best lynch is later.

[StrangerCoug]

ConfidAnon replaced out, just so you know...

[Zang]

Why didn't you do tqo?

[Jack]

@coug: yeah, that's why I mentioned fat tony

@zang: cause he posts a lot and I had a newb town read

[SIR CYANIDE]

It would be 10x easier to find mafia if everyone posted their thoughts un-edited or revised, and just threw out the backs and forths stream of consciousness style. Much harder for the mafia to fake, anyone can fake the other stuff.

This is an utopia, however...

Right now I have no read on AGar, I am confused about you and I have (newb) town reads on everyone else. What exactly do you want me to do? Speculate about, for example (EXAMPLE!) Zang hammering prematurely?

The only thing I can surely say about certain people is that they are newb. If you ask me, there are 3 types of

perceivable

behavior:

1) Antitown --> can be either alignment
2) Protown --> can be either alignment
3) Scummy behavior --> is most likely scum

So far I have seen nobody exhibit scummy behavior. Antitown? Fucking loads. Protown? A lot as well.

I don't know shit.

[cruelty]

I would like to lynch cruelty. Not feeling the urge to do anything else, like argue or defend myself or look for other suspects.

I think I'd like to lynch StrangerCoug.


I'll be more active over the next few days, been busy + sick so this has been a low priority. Apologies.

[StrangerCoug]

Get well soon, because I can't defend against the invisible...

[Zhero]

If I as townie can't honestly say "I'm not interested in convincing anybody", then I have to LIE about it, give my reasons even though I don't want to (faking it), or just not say things like "stranger coug is climbing up my scum ladder" (A lie of omission).

I can't speak for everyone else, but "I'm not interested in convincing anybody" would have been fine by me. Not responding at all feels a bit more suspicious, and as easy as it may be to fake the "mafiascum.net townie", it's even easier to blend in with a town where nobody posts anything at all unless they feel like it.

A few people are mentioning Crueltyscum, whats the case there?