Open 203: C/9 Mafia Wins!

[Max]

Err... Bandwagon Much?

[Max]

Err... Bandwagon Much?

Max: hip and rebellious.

Wdjat: Hypocrite

Post 6 = Joke
Post 7 = Serious???


Wdjat, I'm not sure, I don't play based on meta, I prefer to mix-it-up.

Lowell

: What do you think of Gheb's and tatetothetot's jumping on the bandwagon?

[Max]

When you say mix it up, do you have anything in particular in mind or do you just play it by ear? I mean, the not playing by meta is one consistency at least. What else do you not do?

Discuss what play-style I intend to use nor come to a fixation with a list of things I will and Will not do.

You shouldn't need to make serious attempts to get out of RVS. RVS should lead to discussion and naturally end. "Who have you played with before" is not going to lead to anything. RVS is infinitely more useful than such a pointless question.

Disagree so much, admittedly that question is not a good one. However RVS leads to bandwagon's for no reason. Making points about the set-up can lead to conversation with no RVS.

Gayle: Is the RVS stage over now?
Lowell: Why did you make yourself third on the wagon?
Gheb: The1fifi has made an error already, would you consider this to be a scumtell?
gameplayah: You have made an error already would you consider this to be a scumtell?
kyle99: Do you believe that wdjat is scum? If so, why?

[Max]

I just checked the player list, Lowell has played games of mine before. But I've never played with him (at least not in a long while).

[Max]

As to the question addressed to me, yes RVS appears to be over now. How does this answer help you hunt scum?

This specific question does not, your opinion however does. At what point, would you say, that the RVS was over?

No, I don't. It was a random vote. Why did you feel the need to ask this? It seems like a rather obvious and stupid question.

I would disagree it was obvious, you posted just after he did. So I wish to ask you the following:
Was there anything you disagreed with in any of his posts before your own, if so which?
What do you believe is so stupid about the question?
After my post wdjat had made many more posts, why did you choose to ignore those?
If I had questioned your opinion on any other player, would you think that was stupid?
How is this different?

@The1fifi:
Lurking is a scumtell, yet townies do it too. Does that mean you must discredit all scumtells as townies often do them also?
Examples: IIoA, Skimming Threads, Ignoring Questions, Bandwagoning, Hammering?

[Max]

as opposed to RQS which leaves you answering boring, vaguely useful questions for days and strategy discussion which can leave you with absolutely nothing to go on when it ends.

RQS, within about 2 days brings results. Once my questioning is finished, entirely ignoring RVS I will have my suspects. In fact most RVS stages end when a player asks a random question with an dissatisfying answer, why not cut out the middle man.

JacobSavage, you have yet to post, based on the first two pages, are there any particularly suspicious people in the game?
danakillsu, are there any posts that you feel reek scum, which?
Scott Brosius, are there any players you feel are avoiding posting content?

[Max]

Gayle, I promised to get you results in two days, I've used 6 hours. RVS has given you nothing, in fact you are voting me based on my questions therefore based on the RQS. Therefore I have just proven to you the RQS has brought about suspects.

The following I have deduced from my questioning:
- You dislike any change in the play methods used to start gaming conversation, regardless of the fact within the second page we have more info than most games make in the first 4.
- You suffer from tunnel vision majorly. There have been several posts before each of yours with content to pick at yet you choose to respond to myself. Confirmation Bias.
- kyle99 should have slow drifting scum reads rather than snap decision making. i.e. more than two pages to make his mind up on someone
- The1fifi treats mistakes and scumtells as separate when genuinely they are one and the same, for scum to be caught they must make mistakes.

Also Gayle, in the past 6 hours RQS has generated more discussion than the 24 hours beforehand. It has stimulated discussion which is the point of the RVS/RQS.

AND besides kyle99 has given me a scum read, why RV if an RVS means nothing? The point of RVS isn't for shits and giggles, it's so people can analyse the voting. You aren't doing that so why do you support the RVS?

[Max]

So your saying that if I said:
"Post 24 doesn't count because it's on the first page" it would not be considered in any way scummy? Atm it isn't but say someone was pressuring me on that post or questioning me on it, it's scummy.

Also, those discoveries are better than your RVS, if any of these change. E.g. say page 7 kyle says Y is town page 8 he says he's scum he better have hella of a reason.

You will dislike any unusual methods of scum hunting, or any that you don't like, and will instantly discount them. If you're town it means your hindering your cababilities, as scum it gives you leeway to do as you wish.

The1fifi shouldn't push people hard for simple mistakes of semantics as I have seen others do, (e.g. I'm not mafia instead of I'm not anti-town). Anything against that means the1fifi is pushing for a lynch and is desperate.

Consider RQS like the RVS that it has no logical boundary for determining scum in the short term, however in the long term the RVS is forgotten, and often ignored. However the RQS can easily have a lasting impact.

[Max]

These reads are both crap. The question you aimed at The1fifi wasn't really phrased in the way that you're interpreting it after he answered. And this read on kyle99 is more about best practices in regards to building cases. We're looking an RVS vote. I'm sure his thinking was something like "that guy is right above me so I'll vote him." That said, we have more to build a read from. We get a sense of their personality. And you said you didn't play by meta, you big liar.

I'm not, I metagame my opponents within a single game, I don't search for people's games then meta them on that. Meta based on the few pages of a game should be consistent throughout.

Max, I'm sorry, but you're a moron. All of you're "discoveries" are complete crap.

Okay, so tell me kyle, as you have only posted in things of one lines what have

you

discovered?

I would like to remind you that you are doing the same thing, sir. That is, whining instead of scum hunting.

Does that make it right for you not to? Just because other players don't doesn't meant that you shouldn't. E.g. mass roleclaim (not in this game it wouldn't help)

So, why don't you enlighten us about what these random votes tell us? You say you prefer RVS then show us how RVS is helping you.

I'm antagonistic

Is that a role claim? Antagonist? I know you mean in the other sense but I couldn't resist.

[Max]

Lowell

unvote, vote max

. I'm squarely with the penguin on this one. Max is being more meta than helpful. The meaningless questions, the one-liners. I'll take a pass on it.

Are you genuinely trying to insinuate that you've been more helpful than I?

You're lurking. You've only posted once making a case against a player and that's against me. You're other 3 posts were before we had conversation. Make yourself useful and post something more than:

"I agree with Y <Paraphrase another player>, <Insert Bandwagon>"

And what makes it worse is your paraphrasing a player who did the same thing:

Lowell is imitating Kyle's arguments who's imitating Gayle's.

If that was the same for every player we might as well not play a game and just stroke each others' egos.

@

Gheb

Yes, I selected you as you were the only other player asides from me not to vote. Getting some information from you would aid the game and give us something to analyse. All other players had voted e.g. Kyle, so getting something from you would allow us to progress.

Do you feel that players who support RVS need to do more to actually analyse it?

@

wdjat

Asides from goading other players I haven't really seen you do much, IIoA I believe is the phrase. Also, you call me a liar, I really meant more along the lines of

my

meta not others'. It's fair game.

Dude. RANDOM voting stage. It is for shits and giggles. That's why it's worthless.

He seems to be inciting arguments between players while not getting involved himself. Either he's level headed and trying not to become biased or is keeping himself low ... which is inherently anti-town.

@

Gayle

In post 49 you respond to Wdjat's post asking you to show us your vote analysing which you ignored. Why?

Do you feel that the RVS stage has lost meaning since the RQS vs. RVS battle took over?

@

Kyle

I've pretty much already been over this with Lowell, you accuse me of having no content yet you have none either. Are you going to become an active member of the town or continue with your passive membership?

@

gameplayah

You haven't posted in a while, has Lowell done anything to redeem himself in your eyes? If not, what has made you maintain your position?

@

Tatetothetot

+ All Others

Has the game advanced at a pace you are happy with? If not why not?
Which player has generated the most attention in your opinion? Is that rightfully so?
Who has remained under the radar? Should they have?
Is there a player who needs to pick up activity? Who?

[Max]

Yes, really, and I don't need to reread. I think what has happened recently has been mostly people teaming up against others without any proof.

Why didn't you mention this then, it is scummy to try and get someone lynched without evidence?

Your questions are stupid, and have very few of scumhunting.

Errr... so you'd consider that your opinion that Dana has stayed under the radar a pointless exercise?

I'm considering it interesting you perceive you being forced to air opinions about activity that you should be giving naturally is stupid. Unless since '08 the way people play mafia has changed dramatically I'm working on the assumption that players being forced to give info is generally a bad sign.

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

Really? In the past 2 pages of posts you have revealed no opinions of your own? Really? Perhaps you should do the same.

Except that the argument with you and the RQS completely stopped the RVS.

Yes gayle that is the point, your arguing with the RQS and wdjat (and myself) ended the RVS, he was saying you could still have gained info from your RVS despite the RQS.

@max- I'm trying to insinuate that you're PRETENDING to be more helpful than I. I dont' particularly think I've done anything

world-beating, but it's only page 3.

Yes, at least I'm posting something. 10% is better than 0%.

I believe scum is among:

wdjat
Lowell
kyle99
+ Those not posted anywhere near enough (Tate, Scott, Game and Jacob)

I believe that the following are neutral:
dana
Gheb
Gayle

I believe that the following are town:
The1fifi

[Max]

I need to re-read then post I've got a bit behind

[Max]

okay so then let's vote max. this game is in danger of dying.

Surely it's people like you that are making the game die?

wdjat - pretending to be helpful, posting lots but saying little
Lowell - ignores the game, accuses people of doing nothing then... does nothing
kyle99 - Admits he has reads and doesn't reveal them

dana, gheb and gayle - each has posted some good stuff but has also posted things which I would consider to be questionable.

the1fifi has maintained a good level of commenting and I haven't seen anything directly anti-town

This game is so slow. Anybody wanna argue with me about something vaguely related to the game so we can get some posts?

Lowell is evidently scum, what are your feelings on lowell?

[Max]

I actually find wdjat's last post amusing.

The kunk wagon could use some support, or someone give me something else to do.

Here's something for you to do... post something with content.

Post 114 by the1fifi is a bit iffy. I said "Lowell is evidently scum"...
next post (fifi's): "vote: lowell"?? - Interesting that no reason is provided.

Lowell is starting to reek of scum. He just picks someone and starts to follow the crowd, very little original thought and his votes are just "I agree with ______", and his original content level is quite low.

So, what is the difference between you and him. Pot, kettle, black?

Right... So an ISO on Kyle is to come. One moment I think he's scum. Very weak scum at that

[Max]

A History of Hypocrisy - Kyle99

ISO 5 - "have a few town tells and a small scumvibe from max"
ISO 6 (3 hours later with no post from me) - "I have <snip> scumvibes from max"

So what happened to the few town tells, few > a small. What happened between the two posts?

ISO 8 - "I reread and I think that Max is just a townie trying to hard."

So I'm townie again? Right.

ISO 9 (No post from me again) - "I honestly think that Lowell is acting scummier than Max atm"

Right? So somehow I'm townie and Lowell is scummier than townie?

ISO 10: "Lowell is jumping on bandwagons, following the crowd, and uses generally bad logic."

I've yet to see a single example of good logic from you. I think you're scum, and you haven't improved things. I think Lowell is lurking scummy as hell but... There's no denying that you are scummy.

Pros Of A Kyle99 Lynch: Has made opinions clear on other people, few, but gives us something to work on.
Pros of a lowell lynch: Lurker dead.

Vote: Kyle99

[Max]

Usually, scum act scummier than town. Whodathunkit?

I'm just saying that it's incoherent to say that somebody is acting scummier than someone you think is town. Saying even more so that wdjat would be comparatively useful, the one you used is bizarre and appears lazy.

[Max]

Mod: I'm sorry, but please can you bold your vote counts and give them their own post it's just they are really unnoticable and I thought you'd gone awol.

[Max]

No scum is obvious. Merely more probably than others. The only obvious scum is someone who claims they are scum.

[Max]

Nothings new, lowell is scum with kyle.

[Max]

I'm going to vote lowell tomorrow I would however like a post (from him) before I hammer

[Max]

Going to re-read and post tomorrow.

[Max]

Can I say that kyle is still scum so even though he's being replaced we can lynch him now still.

[Max]

He was scum so this new player is scum... Where has my logic gone wrong? I'm not voting him because he lurked, I'm voting him because he's scum.

[Max]

hewitt... trust me on this. wdjat is not like Empking, wdjat

is

trying.

Serious time. Where's the lynch on kyle gone it still needs to happen.

[Max]

Or maybe he was trying to stop people lynching him?

[Max]

I think we need some prodding when I disappear for 2 days and there are about 10 posts by 4/5 players (I haven't counted.)

[Max]

Edit (fifth): All prods are done by request only.

Request that you prod everyone who hasn't posted in the last 48 hours

[Max]

I dislike how this bandwagon on kyle has continued, I agree with the purpose but not with the way people have just dived onto it.

[Max]

Mod Please can you actually make Hewitt officially a player in this game he still isn't in the player list

You know its times like these when banging your head against a brick wall could be appropriate.

[Max]

Well, the kyle wagoning is just being dragged on and no one pushed for another wagon.. That means we are in the wrong way.

Well wagons on scum are slower than those on scum.

I dislike this post. We have no deadline limit, fifi's post has just rubbed me up completely the wrong way. I'm not liking it at all.

[Max]

Fifi, it's too late, you already hammered him.

[Max]

Generally the rule is that when a lynch is reached it can't be undone.

[Max]

you know in twilight generally some form of conversation helps

[Max]

It's what happens when mafia kills me :/