Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Raskol]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 3 ) elvis_knits Ellibereth Rhinox
elvis_knits ( 1 ) mykonian
evilsnail ( 1 ) Raskol
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 1 ) farside22
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) gayle
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 6 ) ojanen evilsnail popsofctown CSL fishythefish Hoopla
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

the power of christ compels you

[mykonian]

I know the case on CSL.

But that afterthought is plain wrong, still you use it. Why did you need that point with your vote?

I attack you on your points, how is that strawmanning?

You are attacking me on one point which was an afterthought and not part of my main case and call the whole case crap. Do you have a problem with my main points?

I have a problem with your afterthought and think you are scum for that and for going for an easy target with that, yes. The afterthought was unnecessary but you needed it for some reason. My guess was that you wanted a reason with your vote to make it look good. That is scummy.

You trying to pull this into a strawman is scummy.

[mykonian]

This is a bunch of manipulation, and summing up easy targets. I would look at DRK closely, I think he is scum.

Hello and welcome to this edition of Who's Da Scum! We have 3 lovely contestants today! And heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere they are!

Our first contestant votes haphazardly and without reason and he's STILL waiting for one to really stick. He disapproves of optimal town strategy

and likes getting stuck in the rain

. From Scummy McScummerville, Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

Our second contestant hails from a faraway universe in a dragon-guarded castle. Don't worry about that though; he thinks you're town! Please welcome Ellllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

Our third contestant is a real active lurker. He's 95.7% noise, 4.3% half-hearted scumhunting, Aniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

[elvis_knits]

I know the case on CSL.

But that afterthought is plain wrong, still you use it. Why did you need that point with your vote?

I attack you on your points, how is that strawmanning?

You are attacking me on one point which was an afterthought and not part of my main case and call the whole case crap. Do you have a problem with my main points?

I have a problem with your afterthought and think you are scum for that and for going for an easy target with that, yes. The afterthought was unnecessary but you needed it for some reason. My guess was that you wanted a reason with your vote to make it look good. That is scummy.

You trying to pull this into a strawman is scummy.

How is it NOT strawmanning when you won't even respond to my other points? You are reducing my case to one point that I posted later, and ignoring all the main points. That is a strawman.

[mykonian]

I am not talking about your case! I know CSL is scummy as hell, he is always scummy!

The question is, why did you need that horrible point? Why didn't you just leave it out? I think because you somehow thought it would benefit you.

[elvis_knits]

I am not talking about your case! I know CSL is scummy as hell, he is always scummy!

So how do you plan to judge his allignment if you are just going to write off all his scumm behavior? And why didn't you admit this before? You were acting like I have no case for voting CSL, when I clearly do.

The question is, why did you need that horrible point? Why didn't you just leave it out? I think because you somehow thought it would benefit you.

I said it because I thought CSL should have been the NK. Like in a normal game when somebody claims doc and they don't get the NK, I always get suspicious. I may be wrong about this considering the DGB circumstances... but I was trying to figure out how the mafia even knew that killing DGB was an option. And I thought mafia might want to kill the teleporter over the mason anyway (I might be wrong here, it's debatable).

If I'm wrong on this point, then I'm wrong, but I said it because it occurred to me. And for you to ASSUME that I have some ulterior motive is complete conjecture, totally unfair, and WIFOM at best. You have no way of knowing my motivation. You're just assuming.

[mykonian]

I think CSL is the ideal easy target, that is why I don't vote him.

And yes, I'm just assuming. Now you show that my assumption is wrong, or unlikely or something of the sort. So unfair? didn't think so. You are an intelligent girl, you could have seen that point was not protown. But still you used it. Because the goal was not to scumhunt, I think.

To say it is unfair to try to find your motives is seriously weird. And oh yes, WIFOM-defense. I love it.

[farside22]

I'm all for voting and putting pressure on Hoopla. Anyone else want to help push a slacker who is usually more vocal to the test.
Come on no one listen when I orginally thought DGB/ABR argument was more personal then scum motivated.

[mykonian]

a point against Evilsnail is that he is quite active in a mini (at least, I see his name there quite often as last post), while there is little action here.

FoS Evilsnail.

[farside22]

I would like to hear from fishy as well on who he thinks is scum. I just reread him in isolation and except from the start of the game and this vote on DGB he's been realitively quiet on his scum hunting and doing more what is best in terms of teleporting.

[Ellibereth]

I should be caught up by today.
Hopefully.

[zorastermod]

Sorry for the delay on vote counts. They are now updated.

[evilsnail]

Just went through CSL in iso, and it requires quite a stretch to get to the idea that he softclaimed teleporter. He mentioned getting NK'ed, but only in the context of saying that he would be happy just living through Day 1 (ie, not getting lynched for once).

So...the "why is he still alive?" line of thought isn't terribly convincing to me.

On the CSL issue, I agree with this and I think I said something similar Day 1. Him not being NKed is a null tell, IMO, especially when there are other reasons to be suspicious of CSL.

a point against Evilsnail is that he is quite active in a mini (at least, I see his name there quite often as last post), while there is little action here.

FoS Evilsnail.

Eh, some games require little thought, while others have 43 pages to sift through.

@myko: what else would scum-elli do except scumhunt? Pretty much his only chances of winning are either getting back to U2 or reducing U1 scum. I'd say the latter is well worth his while. I do agree that supposing he's going to be a serious protown force here is optimistic.

Fishythefish is pretty much right here.

Raskol, what are you voting me for again? Voteparking? Isn't that basically what you're doing now?

[Raskol]

Voting you for what I see as a pattern of non-involved activity---trying to keep your hands clean and look busy without giving any opinions or making any connections. Vote-parking is just one part of that.

Who do you think is scum? Who do you think is town?

You thought not voting at the beginning of D1 was a scumtell, or at least thought it was worthy of a vote. Why aren't you voting now, on D2, when you should have a better read on things?

[evilsnail]

Not voting on the beginning of Day 1 is only a scum tell because it's the RVS.

The only reason I'm not as involved as I should be is because the thread is huge and I'm having trouble getting my head around it. This coupled with the fact that I've been quite busy of late.

I have a fairly clear sense of who's town. I have good feelings about elvis, farside, Ojanen and pops. Scum: you, CSL, fishythefish. But, to be honest, my cases are fairly weak.

You I mainly have a bad feeling about still because your vote feels a bit OMGUSy and your pattern of involvement isn't much better than mine. Sure, I posted some theory-related fluff, but most of that was early on. And your vote on me keeps your hands as clean as mine.

[Ojanen]

I have read the thread but feel a bit at loss for a clear target.

CSL is scummy. I know he apparently always is, but gah... Seeming lie about finding a reason to vote on his own and the awful (normal for him? only have meta as scum in active memory) bandwagoning.

Rhinox is scummy, although I've liked a couple of his latest points a little better.

Fishy being several levels more insightful and focused in teleportation thinking than scumhunting makes me worry about him despite originally thinking town.

Out of the superactive bunch, I like the others but can't make heads or tail out of myko and pops, especially myko I can't decide if he's the type who snows in people with camouflaging questionable stuff in over the top amount of words.

I'll look at the bandwagons asap to gain some clarity. I was lagging behind far too much D1, will correct that now.

The killing of DGB is strange. Scum just must have known she wasn't pulled.

[mykonian]

sorry, Ojanen, I'm a bit talkative. And I often get pulled into long arguments that really don't bring anything new

It has been worse (I have had games where I posted 1/3 of the posts day 1)

I try to solve this (the blue stuff that isn't that important, conciously not replying to every post), but I see it is not really working.

[Fishythefish]

As noted by Ojanen and farside, my teleportation thoughts have been more/deeper than my scumhunting thoughts. This is because (at least for me) game theory is easy, and scumhunting is hard. The posts I made a couple of days ago took me a total of maybe 10 minutes to think and write, and I’m sure they are almost entirely right; this post has taken more like two hours, and the conclusions in it might be totally off the mark. I acknowledge that theory posts are no substitute for scumhunting, and until the reread I just did I’ve considered myself behind in this game.

It should be noted that the mafia may, just possibly, have known DGB was here in order to kill her. They had 3 minutes to make their kill after the OU exited night. Otherwise, they took a big gamble – which makes CSL the softclaimed teleporter look bad, since he was the obvious other kill.

Scummy people:

CSL on slip –
1. Votes myk, saying it was a huge slip.
2. Claims, implausibly, to have found a slip from many pages ago independently from Plum.
3. Unvotes, saying “the vote has served its purpose”. What was that purpose?
Publishes an unconvincing scumlist – reasons are “scummy posts” (me and snail), “Not here” (raskol), “not scumhunting enough” (ABR) and “meta” (pops). Of these, only ABR’s is a good reason – the others either aren’t scumtells or need expansion.
Defends with “I’m not scum – wouldn’t have killed DGB”. There’s a three man scum team. This is just the kind of thing I can imagine someone saying as scum if I personally wouldn’t have kill DGB, but my scumpartners overruled me/talked me into it.
Verdict: Fairly likely scum. Clearly has a scummy-looking playstyle generally, but even within this has lied, and generally gives me a scum read.

evilsnail I really don’t like. Reading him in iso, there’s a huge amount of stuff which falls into the categories of null reads, discrediting other points, calling people town, strategy discussion of the kind that reads protown but doesn’t really say anthing, weakening his own points with equivocal reads, and other assorted things which don’t commit him in any way to any serious reads. He’s leaving himself in a position to vote CSL, myko and myself – perhaps the three easiest lynches in the game right now. His play feels like trying to stay under the radar and be in a position to get a town lynch. I really think he is scum.

vote:evilsnail

pops: Of the wagon on DGB, his vote is definitely the one I find least convincing. It’s really about DGB scumhunting vocally and certainly – which is very much in her meta. I don’t really believe pops thought the evilsnail vote from DGB was so bad that pushing it hard merited a vote. Oj says this post is bizarre – and pops replies that an analysis of DGB is expected to be bizarre. Yes, but I’d also expect it to convince me you thought she was scum, if it’s followed with a vote.
I also find his vote for me unconvincing – it’s ridiculously aggressive to vote someone for not being able to find a quote, and saying they’ll explain it later. Particularly when the immediate unvote is followed a little later with a vote for EK, this looks like a way to move off DGB onto another wagon.
The reason for jumping back onto DGB is that DGB didn’t stop declaring reads with no support after pops attacked her for it. This is crap – it doesn’t become a better scumtell after you pointed it out. This suggests that you think town are more likely to respond to accusations by changing the way they play – which seems like rubbish.

[Raskol]

Not voting on the beginning of Day 1 is only a scum tell because it's the RVS.

The only reason I'm not as involved as I should be is because the thread is huge and I'm having trouble getting my head around it. This coupled with the fact that I've been quite busy of late.

I have a fairly clear sense of who's town. I have good feelings about elvis, farside, Ojanen and pops. Scum: you, CSL, fishythefish. But, to be honest, my cases are fairly weak.

You I mainly have a bad feeling about still because your vote feels a bit OMGUSy and your pattern of involvement isn't much better than mine. Sure, I posted some theory-related fluff, but most of that was early on. And your vote on me keeps your hands as clean as mine.

You've made exactly one vote all game, and only a pretty low percentage of your posts actually contain anything that serves to encourage or discourage a lynch of anyone. You've taken few stances and made few connections, either pro or con, with almost anyone. This is a kind of play that makes it very hard to pin anything on you, if you're scum, and if you're town, hurts your effectiveness. Assuming you're relatively competent means I'm inclined to think you're more likely to be scum overall.

That's what I mean by keeping your hands clean and whatever else I might be accused of, it's not something I've been doing, I think.

[popsofctown]

The reason for jumping back onto DGB is that DGB didn’t stop declaring reads with no support after pops attacked her for it. This is crap – it doesn’t become a better scumtell after you pointed it out. This suggests that you think town are more likely to respond to accusations by changing the way they play – which seems like rubbish.

Actually, this makes sense. May I ask why you wait to defend townies with impending lynches after they are out of danger?

[Ellibereth]

Time for more "I agree with the posts above me" until I finish.

Unvote, Vote evil

[Fishythefish]

@pops: it was only on a reread that it struck me how bad that point was.

[evilsnail]

evilsnail I really don’t like. Reading him in iso, there’s a huge amount of stuff which falls into the categories of null reads, discrediting other points, calling people town, strategy discussion of the kind that reads protown but doesn’t really say anthing, weakening his own points with equivocal reads, and other assorted things which don’t commit him in any way to any serious reads. He’s leaving himself in a position to vote CSL, myko and myself – perhaps the three easiest lynches in the game right now. His play feels like trying to stay under the radar and be in a position to get a town lynch. I really think he is scum.

vote:evilsnail

I've had some trouble keeping up with the game, fine. As you yourself have just said, posting theory is easy, scumhunting is hard. Why can't the same be true for me? That's totally hypocritical. You can at least give me the chance to be more active today.

How do I leave myself in a position to vote you and myko? Myko I haven't attacked at all. You I have a gut feeling about, which goes back to Day 1, before there was any real pressure on you. So that statement is basically a lie.

In addition, if there's anyone who's leaving himself in a position to jump on the available wagons, it's you. You just fingered me, pops and CSL in the same post. Everything you accuse me of you do yourself in the same post.

Vote: fishythefish

[evilsnail]

You've made exactly one vote all game, and only a pretty low percentage of your posts actually contain anything that serves to encourage or discourage a lynch of anyone. You've taken few stances and made few connections, either pro or con, with almost anyone. This is a kind of play that makes it very hard to pin anything on you, if you're scum, and if you're town, hurts your effectiveness. Assuming you're relatively competent means I'm inclined to think you're more likely to be scum overall.

Well, I think I actually have more posts than you and you're also exaggerating a little. I have taken a stance on elvis, DGB, ABR, CSL and various wagons. Sure, I should have posted more, but me having trouble keeping up with the game Day 1 is hardly a good reason to vote me. You're conveniently ignoring the fact that I've said a number of times that I was pretty busy in RL.

[Fishythefish]

1. You don't really address the main reasons I find you scummy there. I feel your play actively avoids taking stances on who is scum. I don't feel you don't have the time/energy/ability to scumhunt - I feel like you aren't trying. "Give me a chance to improve today" is a silly argument - the same can go for any reason for thinking anyone scum. The fact that I have recently posted lots of theory is pretty irrelevant - I have tried to scumhunt in this game, and I think my posts reflect that. The same can't be said of you.

2. This is the point - you haven't given a good reason for any of your three suspicions, and are in a position to jump on any of their wagons, saying that you think them scummiest. Until you just voted me, I had no idea who you found scummiest.

3. Giving a scumlist, with reasons, isn't at all the same thing as the above. I've committed myself to positions on multiple players. These cases can be argued against, and compared - and if I now vote CSL, people can ask me what changed. Your post commits you to nothing more than "I dislike CSL, fish and Raskol", and later on you can decide how strongly you feel about that. I'm not calling you scummy for giving multiple reads; I'm calling you scummy for fingering multiple good targets while giving no reads.
Note: I originally thought that in your last post before mine, "you" referred to myk. I'm not sure how this changes anything, I'll look at this later today.

4. Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell.