Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[Ellibereth]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) elvis_knits Ellibereth
elvis_knits ( 1 ) mykonian
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) gayle
Raskol ( 0 )
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 9 ) Rhinox ojanen evilsnail farside22 popsofctown CSL fishythefish Hoopla Raskol
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

/GHOST SLAY

[Hoopla]

ghost lay

[elvis_knits]

U did it wrong, Hoopla!

[Fishythefish]

Ellibereth should stay here, and stay alive.

Come the endgame, we are going to have some players from our universe here, and some from the OU. If the OU finishes before us, we are then going to know how many of each kind of scum we have, and have a pool of players each is from. This will very much aid us in scumhunting. Also, it is very unlikely that at any point, OU scum will be a threat over here (it would take two successful teleports, and us teleporting/killing our scum well). There is also the chance that the OU scum teleport him back for endgame reasons.

Also, whatever his alignment, Elli's motivations here (at least during the day) are to hunt for scum. At night, he will do nothing.

There's a balance to be struck between the information that a mix of universes can give us and the confusion it can potentially cause. There's some optimal number of OU players to have over here - but it's certainly not 0. Until we have 2 OU scum over here, they aren't something to worry about until very late in the game. I'd be happiest with 2-3 players from the OU here at all times.

Even if Elli is our most likely scum (I confess to not having read him in the OU yet - though I will), he is not the player who is most dangerous to us atm. As such, he is a bad lynch, and a bad teleport.

Also, if a decent chunk of the town agree with these ideas (which are right even without this paragraph), our scum have enormous motivation to kill Elli, who is dangerous to them because he is a bad lynch/teleport and, if scum, very bad for them in an endgame situation.

I'm very happy to argue this point for as long as it takes. Players from the OU are a great asset, and the confusion and possible second scum faction they bring is well worth it.

The OU should take note of this. It is well worth it for both towns to split up both scum factions, if at all possible. This means that, for now at least, teleporting back players is counterproductive.

[Fishythefish]

Oh, and U2 teleporter, you suck. Just so you know.

[mykonian]

My thoughts on eli is that our teleporter should send him back to the UO.
I read him in isolation and I can see why they thought he was scummy.

myko: What is with your knee jerk reaction to call almost anyone who looks at you as scum and make a case against them?
So far: me, EK and DGB. (only people who call you scum that you didn't try and make a case on Rhinox and Gayle)

You forgot CSL, Plum was on me, I thought, ehh, I probably miss someone. DGB was the other way around, I expressed suspicion, she went after me. But that was pretty early, so you could have made that mistake.

and with you, that was on the moment you had expressed suspicion but nothing more, the Elvis case, I'm sure I have laying around somewhere.

Plus that I'm right with that post. She is trying to please you and Gayle. Plus that she expresses suspicion of me, but nothing more. I feel she uses it to buddy to you, so the suspicion you expressed about Elvis won't be translated into a vote.

Oh myko... you want to dance? Okay. Let's dance.

Elvis, why are my ideas about strategy pro-scum?

Your "no-teleportation" strategy is scummy.

before I have to defend this again "no-teleportation of scummy players"

no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention

Teleportation is the mechanic of these games. And you want to not use it?

What kind of argument is this? if the mechanic is antitown, then no, I don't want to use it.

My suspicion is that scum do not want to be seperated, and thus do not want to be sent to the other universe. So they would be anti-teleportation, like you are. That is how your strategy is pro scum.

oh, ok. Didn't think of it that way. That could make sense (if your suspicion is correct)

Also, you later came up with the justification that it would be too confusing for people to have to read a new game. Which is crap for lots of reasons. Too confusing, too hard? Boo-hoo. Everybody who signed up for this game came in knowing teleportation was a possibility and they were told to keep an eye on the other game. Many people have been keeping up with the other game, atleast a little bit, and even posting comments to the other universe. So, I don't see why your "too confusing" argument is good at all. I think it's just another excuse to push your pro-scum no-teleportation strategy.

We have already had several people who couldn't keep up with our thread alone. When we are at day 3, and our pagecount is above 100, I fear the worst.

Farside her case is not that my strategy discussion was bad or wrong. In fact, everybody accepts what I said, but doesn't agree that the confusion of the teleports could be harmful to town, or at least not outweight the benefit. There has been little discussion if adding that was actually scummy, something you are saying now.

I don't see what farside's case has to do with my feelings about you. I have my own brain and my own thoughts. You can't defend against my suspicions on you by saying "that's not why farside thinks I'm scum." Total non-sequiter.

your post was towards her, then expressing why you think I'm scum. Just posted that for clarity.

What stands out in the above post is how Elvis appeases 2 players

: farside and gayle, and then still go for the easy target.

FoS Elvis

I'm not appeasing them. I think farside and gayle are both town and I think their suspicions are good. They are both pressuring people that I am suspicious of, although I am still more suspicious of CSL. To accuse me of pushing an easy target suggests I don't have good reason to vote him. I DO.

He softclaimed teleporter and didn't get NKed.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT BE??? HMMMMMMMM?????11eleven

WTH. A confirmed towny got killed and this is your reason to vote CSL? Come on, you can fake better. And the "I agree with you, that he and she are scummy, but still I don't follow you because I find him more scummy", is appeasing.

[elvis_knits]

One point I am going to disagree with EK on is the mafia kill. They had a confirmed mason (no one counter claimed) to kill and a breadcrumb of CSL saying teleporter.
Killing CSL if he is the town teleporter all it means is someone else will get the role that is town. Kill DGB means one confirmed town dead.
I don't see how killing DGB over CSL means CSL is auto-scum in that regards.

First of all, softclaiming is scummy.

But secondly, the whole kill on dgb is weird. DGB was supposed to get pulled from the other universe. Either mafia is told who the other universe is pulling/teleporting and who is therefore available for kill -- OR -- the mafia took a big chance putting a NK onto a target who might not even be in this universe (and therefore not available).

I asked the mod if the mafia is told about any teleporting/pulling that might effect their kill -- like if they are given a list of players available for NK. The mod didn't really say yes or no, but said that it was possible.

So if they knew for sure DGB was staying put, it does make sense for them to kill her. Personally, I think they might still want to kill the teleporter over the mason... but I dunno, I guess that's debatable.

If they had to take a shot in the dark on DGB, not knowing if she had been pulled or not, I think it makes it MUCH more likely that CSL is scum.

[mykonian]

and elvis, btw, Fishy's points are much better to show my strategy was wrong.

[mykonian]

Elvis, what makes a teleporter so important?

(hint, we are all "backups")

[elvis_knits]

and elvis, btw, Fishy's points are much better to show my strategy was wrong.

I couldn't even follow fishy

[elvis_knits]

Elvis, what makes a teleporter so important?

(hint, we are all "backups")

If the teleporter gets the NK, their night choice does not go through. If scum are trying to stay in their own universe, killing the teleporter as often as possible is a good strategy to prevent teleportation.

Myko, what makes the mason so important? All they can do is confirm themselves innocent (and their mason buddy, but that's in the other universe so the mafia here don't really care that much I would think).

[farside22]

I still don't get how killing the teleporter helps scum when someone else will just become the teleporter.

[elvis_knits]

Rhinox going after elli was kinda scummy. If we lynch the OU's scum for them, we are not lynching our own.

[Gayle]

Rhinox going after elli was kinda scummy. If we lynch the OU's scum for them, we are not lynching our own.

I don't see any reason why we should not question Elli.

[Raskol]

Just went through CSL in iso, and it requires quite a stretch to get to the idea that he softclaimed teleporter. He mentioned getting NK'ed, but only in the context of saying that he would be happy just living through Day 1 (ie, not getting lynched for once).

So...the "why is he still alive?" line of thought isn't terribly convincing to me.

I'm still liking evilsnail for my vote, meanwhile.

vote: evilsnail

[farside22]

Ellibereth should stay here, and stay alive.

Come the endgame, we are going to have some players from our universe here, and some from the OU. If the OU finishes before us, we are then going to know how many of each kind of scum we have, and have a pool of players each is from. This will very much aid us in scumhunting. Also, it is very unlikely that at any point, OU scum will be a threat over here (it would take two successful teleports, and us teleporting/killing our scum well). There is also the chance that the OU scum teleport him back for endgame reasons.

Also, whatever his alignment, Elli's motivations here (at least during the day) are to hunt for scum. At night, he will do nothing.

There's a balance to be struck between the information that a mix of universes can give us and the confusion it can potentially cause. There's some optimal number of OU players to have over here - but it's certainly not 0. Until we have 2 OU scum over here, they aren't something to worry about until very late in the game. I'd be happiest with 2-3 players from the OU here at all times.

Even if Elli is our most likely scum (I confess to not having read him in the OU yet - though I will), he is not the player who is most dangerous to us atm. As such, he is a bad lynch, and a bad teleport.

Also, if a decent chunk of the town agree with these ideas (which are right even without this paragraph), our scum have enormous motivation to kill Elli, who is dangerous to them because he is a bad lynch/teleport and, if scum, very bad for them in an endgame situation.

I'm very happy to argue this point for as long as it takes. Players from the OU are a great asset, and the confusion and possible second scum faction they bring is well worth it.

The OU should take note of this. It is well worth it for both towns to split up both scum factions, if at all possible. This means that, for now at least, teleporting back players is counterproductive.

Am I the only person who finds this line of reason completely scummy?

[elvis_knits]

Rhinox going after elli was kinda scummy. If we lynch the OU's scum for them, we are not lynching our own.

I don't see any reason why we should not question Elli.

Feel free, especially if he stays here for a while, but Rhinox was thinking about lynching him today. I think we need to lynch somebody from mafia1 today... and it is impossible for elli to be from mafia1, so I don't care about him at the moment.

[mykonian]

Just went through CSL in iso, and it requires quite a stretch to get to the idea that he softclaimed teleporter. He mentioned getting NK'ed, but only in the context of saying that he would be happy just living through Day 1 (ie, not getting lynched for once).

So...the "why is he still alive?" line of thought isn't terribly convincing to me.

I'm still liking evilsnail for my vote, meanwhile.

vote: evilsnail

this makes me slightly sad, after you've seen that reason for a vote is terrible.

Elvis, what makes a teleporter so important?

(hint, we are all "backups")

If the teleporter gets the NK, their night choice does not go through. If scum are trying to stay in their own universe, killing the teleporter as often as possible is a good strategy to prevent teleportation.

Myko, what makes the mason so important? All they can do is confirm themselves innocent (and their mason buddy, but that's in the other universe so the mafia here don't really care that much I would think).

I'll try to get the scum doesn't want to be teleported in my mind.

@Farside: I am finding it perfectly logical. Scum from Mafia 2 is not really a danger now. If the other universe wins, we can see how many of the teleports are scum/town. This plus that scum-elli probably doesn't kill here, means that we should wait for that information, and lynch Mafia 1 first.

Fishy's assumption that scum-elli would scumhunt is a little optimistic though.

[Raskol]

Just went through CSL in iso, and it requires quite a stretch to get to the idea that he softclaimed teleporter. He mentioned getting NK'ed, but only in the context of saying that he would be happy just living through Day 1 (ie, not getting lynched for once).

So...the "why is he still alive?" line of thought isn't terribly convincing to me.

I'm still liking evilsnail for my vote, meanwhile.

vote: evilsnail

this makes me slightly sad, after you've seen that reason for a vote is terrible.

?

[farside22]

@Farside: I am finding it perfectly logical. Scum from Mafia 2 is not really a danger now. If the other universe wins, we can see how many of the teleports are scum/town. This plus that scum-elli probably doesn't kill here, means that we should wait for that information, and lynch Mafia 1 first.

I certainly don't want to be bombarded with scummy players from UO into our world. You know if they (the teleporter) teleports correctly and elli is scum the scum group maybe doesn't group but this means scum start to out weight town
It also seems the OU isn't thinking town if they didn't take DGB over to their side instead of giving us elli so don't mind me if I wish to ship someone they think is scum right back on them for screwing over the town here.

[mykonian]

@Farside: I am finding it perfectly logical. Scum from Mafia 2 is not really a danger now. If the other universe wins, we can see how many of the teleports are scum/town. This plus that scum-elli probably doesn't kill here, means that we should wait for that information, and lynch Mafia 1 first.

I certainly don't want to be bombarded with scummy players from UO into our world. You know if they (the teleporter) teleports correctly and elli is scum the scum group maybe doesn't group but this means scum start to out weight town
It also seems the OU isn't thinking town if they didn't take DGB over to their side instead of giving us elli so don't mind me if I wish to ship someone they think is scum right back on them for screwing over the town here.

That was my first idea too, but elli, if he is scum, is practically powerless here. And when his buddies in the other universe would get caught, it would be clear one of them was here too.

In any way, your solution isn't that bad, but not necesary (and btw, just for the record: I proposed it first)

[Rhinox]

good points made here by fishy.

I was wondering why the nk on DGB was even attempted. Technically, it was announced 11 minutes before night ended that ellibereth was entering this uni. Theoretically, that means scum could have made their nk choice during those 11 minutes, thus knowing that DGB was still in this universe. For all we know, they might be allowed to resubmit a nk choice if their target is teleported away, since once a target is gone, they're no longer a legal target. So they could have submitted DGB's name knowing that if she was teleported, they would get to pick a new target.

So what I'm saying is, we don't know enough about the scum side of the mechanics to know if the nk says anything about CSL's allignment. That being said, I still think CSL is scum and needs to die today.

vote: CSL

gayle's vc analysis is points against pops, but in general I have liked the points he has brought up in the game, so I'm not ready to damn him just yet.

I've lost the ability to objectively analyze myko in this game due to our earlier exchange. My gut won't let me think he's anything but scum

Rhinox going after elli was kinda scummy. If we lynch the OU's scum for them, we are not lynching our own.

When they're in our universe, they're our scum. Besides, I wasn't really

going after

elli...

myko...

and while Elli starts out scummy (see rhinox's post) I think we are better off leaving him. Best course of action IMO is to send him back tonight. Even if that doesn't happen,

we should leave him for the chance on crosskills.

About crosskills. I wanted that I could share your optimism, but I don't see scum going for scummy players that are zapped in. Neither do I see the new scum shooting other then players that are likely town.

>_>

[mykonian]

@MOD

did you send the mafia a pm notifying them who was teleported. Or did you send them a list with targets that were available?

And Rhinox. The first is the from the point that we shouldn't lynch Elli (since he won't shoot, if he is scum). The second was against (mostly docpotters) idea that we should use crosskills to win the game.

It looks pretty weird this way, but the context is different. And both are arguing from the point that scumhunting for Mafia1 is our most important task.

[farside22]

There is no reason unless he is dumb enough to do so, if elli is scum for him not to shoot.
The OU is making it pretty clear they are sending their outcast our way. Again I don't see the point of keeping a player here to outweigh the town here.

[zoraster]

@MOD did you send the mafia a pm notifying them who was teleported. Or did you send them a list with targets that were available?

I did neither. A mafia may wait, but does not have to, until the very end of their deadline to choose who to kill. Of course, if they do this, they risk sending "no action" in should they not send in the kill.

This said, a mafia's targets may only include the players who are present when they go into night (for what it's worth, this is also true of teleporters in the very rare case it would matter). So, for example, if someone is teleported into their universe because the other universe ended night before, the mafia could not choose to kill that person.