Warning: This is a long post, I have, however, bolded each persons name so specific reads I have on them can be spotted easier if people wish to look back on the post later.
Okay, I'm attempting to go through everything possible and come up with some views on each player. But if anyone notices I've missed anything (and the amount we've posted, that's likely, as it's hard to read through everything in one go and note things, so I've been looking at the specific posters), let me know what I've missed so I can look over it.
Apathy
Possible jumping on the Ray wagon, and using some smaller things to try boosting it, the last point in the huge post (
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48#2095848) was a jokey thing about Carmen Sandiego, and even if we consider that as just joking, prior to that it was the fact Ray said he was town, that alone doesn't mean he's scum. I mean just because I say I'm from England a lot doesn't mean I'm lying about it.
However I'm not feeling scum from that, I am however worried about the possible lurking going.
fuzzylightning
Not really getting a scum read here either, but I am worried that he's confusing even himself with his stuff about me. In one breath he calls me scummy, the next he's saying he thinks me and Ray are both town. This is despite the fact I had not that long ago mentioned that I was backing off and looking at others, and realizing that was a good idea. But I'm willing to accept that he just hadn't seen that post at the time. But it's worth keeping in mind for future reference.
jammer/kelyn
kelyn I had my doubts about because of the whole newbie thing but having experience elsewhere. But realize I could be wrong about that, jammer on the other hand, seemed to open up with some fence sitting, and commenting on something that was a complete non-issue, and even stated it was a non-issue (the "bad wagon" stuff) which to me gave the impression of posting without actually giving anything to the debate.
The stuff towards Ray with AtE being "leaning scum" and calling himself town just a couple of times being "mildly scummy" seem as though there's possible pressure towards Ray for the wrong things. Then we got him saying Ray was joking well after we got serious, and I don't think he was, he joked a bit, sure, but didn't joke as much as jammer would like us to think.
I'm thinking jammer is a possible scum, but right now wouldn't commit unless I saw more, the combination of coming in after a ton of posts (and I was having trouble getting halfway through them today, so buggered if I can know how you pulled it off, lol), and seemingly scum hunting makes me think he might be town, but I'm not wholely convinced either.
jmurph3
Very quick to jump on any strong wagon and then seems forced to stick to what she's saying, especially as her reasons for voting Ray now seem rather flimsy, as her reason pretty much seemed to be "Apathy said this", and quoted a bunch of reasons that don't (looking back) really seem all that scummy.
The reasons are basically:
Ray said he's town a few times - bad reasoning
Defensiveness is not a scum tell but sometimes it is - Pardon? In fact... Apathy made no sense with that to me, but the fact jmurph3 uses it as actual reasons to vote Ray seem scummy.
Ray posted lots to create confusion - bad reasoning (early game it was to get discussion flowing, late game it was purely to defend himself from my attack, posting lots doesn't make a difference).
Ray said he's town a few times - wait... wasn't that already in there as a point?
Then she quotes what I said, and Ray talking to me about tunnel vision, which I understand his point about now too, and have even said I agree with it, as I took it as an actual negative attack on me, when it wasn't (though don't make me accidentally find a link in another of your games for it next time Ray, link the damned thing again :p). So it came across as reaching for something to grab onto when it was really just following along.
The fact that she pretty much said "We lynch Ray, then we lynch redbox" came across extremely scummy, and made me consider whether redbox is scum or not, as if jmurph is, then it would be pretty strange to be pre-arranging to lynch her scum partner as if we lynched Ray, then went after redbox, and she tried backpedalling then, it would be a huge red flag.
So far the scum hunting has been pretty much all on Ray, which is similar to what I was doing, but I did it for about 24 hours, slept, then realized it was a mistake I was making to not consider others, murph on the other hand appears to have stuck to the Ray vote blindly, and now others are backing off it's left her between a rock and a hard place, with nowhere to go.
PaltryExcuse
Not much to say here, personally I'm thinking very pro-town, everything comes off pro-town, and I can't really see anything negative in that direction, the holding off Ray's lynch was a benefit, and even I can see as much now, I needed to cool off and check things properly, and PE wouldn't have stalled the lynch if he was scum, regardless of whether Ray was or not, as he would have quick lynched him to get him out of the game.
PranaDevil/RayFrost
(Putting me and him together, as I've only really focused on him, and therefore my view on him here denotes how I'm feeling about what I've said).
First up, his early vote switching was to bring in discussion, that much is obvious now, so I wouldn't consider that in any voting of him.
Then the first clash between us came from me voting jmurph, which was since cleared up, and I'm beginning to think was more differences of opinion as opposed to him being scum.
Then the mistaken issue of town vs townie, which didn't really help anyone, town or otherwise, just a clash again that blew up into more than it should have been.
Bringing up the point of fuzzy not having questions for apathy, I think that was more Ray just not checking back far enough as opposed to deliberately feeling fuzzy was avoiding questioning apathy for whatever reason.
Again, miscommunication I feel with Ray thinking I was role fishing.
Actually... reading through all of this, yes there were times I think Ray took what I said the wrong way, and re-worded it badly, but... it's not done in a scummy way. He's viewing what I'm saying as different to how I'm writing it and meaning it, and that's okay, that happens. But it doesn't make him scummy.
Which means I was allowing myself to be pressured into pushing for him because of an earlier issue, and then focusing purely on him without looking elsewhere... i.e. I was doing what he said, and what others have said too. My reasons were flawed.
I don't think Ray is scum right now, he could still be sure, but a lynch on him now would be a mistake. He's doing a good job of pointing out issues and flaws in others thinking, and is being pro-town and pro-active in scum hunting.
redbox
Ahhh, the redbox situation, which seems to be the growing way of things now.
I backed him up on the whole "jmurph is with Ray" situation, only for him to respond to it all with a non-answer in "You decide; did I say Ray and jmurph3 are a scum team or has Ray misrepresented my words?"
and... no, just no, town wouldn't expect other town to second guess them, our motives need to be obvious to other town, the only time we should be hiding ANYTHING as town is our roles, and that's to keep that knowledge away from the scum. Everything else, our viewpoints, our motives, basically everything that will help scum be lynched, should be given out, not made into an offhand remark designed to confuse town.
What's more... looking at it with a clear head, and even I'm agreeing with others that you meant Ray, why you would do it in that way I don't know, but it does read strange. Especially after your lackluster response to the questioning of it. You even later in the post say:
"somewhere in there somebody asked me who I thought Prana's partner in crime was; at the time of that post, I thought it was probably jmurph."
And it wasn't "my" partner in crime at all, it was jmurph's, so you evidentally weren't even paying attention to your own arguments.
Despite what I said above about jmurph, I'm thinking redbox is perhaps scum to a rather strong extent.
Skill006
Not entirely sure where I stand on her just yet, she's posted a bit, but it all just seems to be fence sitting with no proper direction, it's all "I can see that, however I think this, but this could be true too" on pretty much every point. It makes me think she's just waiting for a half decent bandwagon to join in with.
Overall
So, that makes me think that the potential scum would be in the region of:
jmurph3
redbox
with possibles of:
fuzzylightning
skill006
Now, that leaves me with a choice of jmurph and redbox to vote for, and right now I get a stronger feel of scum of jmurph after her comments towards redbox and lynching him next.
vote: jmurph3
