Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[popsofctown]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 3 ) Rhinox ojanen gayle
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown fishythefish
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 2 ) CSL Raskol
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 1 ) elvis_knits
mykonian ( 3 ) flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) farside22
Raskol ( 1 ) evilsnail
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Ghostslay

[Hoopla]

quick pops, who should i vote for. i'm so confused.

[Gayle]

Don't be fooled! Pops is scum! Quick, vote him!

[Hoopla]

i like the speed in which you replied. i don't think scum would do such a thing.

vote: pops

my question was a trap anyway.

[popsofctown]

Lol...

That's hoopla for you...

[Hoopla]

i'm just thankful i was dropped into the cool universe. whoever our teleporter is needs to ship away mykonian.

[popsofctown]

does that mean you think I'm cool?

[Hoopla]

what's the point in teleporting a corpse into the other universe?

[popsofctown]

T_T

[Plum]

Hey guys. I've been lurking, and announcing that I was, due to some events this week which I didn't anticipate (namely, being asked to act as juror and spy for the seniors' Mock Trial team Monday and Tuesday nights, and then having to do all the work on a project I need done this week last night. So yeah.

Aaaaanyway. First of all, I do not consider Myk's "slip" conclusive, especially after his explanation. Slips are rarely clear-cut enough to deal with as strong evidence, and it really was

not

my main point against Myk. I would

not

have unvoted DGB and voted Myk only for that. My main beef with him was an apparent disjoint between his opinion on Kairyuu's plan which involved Teleporting in a specific pattern &c. (that it was good) vs. his preferred plan, which involved no Teleportation at all (implying that Teleportation is bad); seeming to both try to get credit for approving Kai's plan but subtly trying to dissuade us from using it for no good or explained reason at all.

@DGB

Why didn't you respond to my initial attack on you and why didn't you comment on my question asking same?

I am not so enthralled by the initial reactions of CSL and DGB. From my knowledge of CSL, I would venture to say that he's probably not DGB's buddy. I am somewhat more comfortable with Fishy's response, probably.

I honestly don't know why I typed town, could be because I was arguing it would make town lose, or just because I was tired. I have honestly no idea.

Hmmm. In the context, I can see how the intended idea "it only makes both universes towns more likely to lose [against scum]" could be transposed by accident into "it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town." It's a point but a fairly minor one; it's barely a scumtell and close to inconclusive.

On it's own I would call Myk's strategy position a nulltell. In context with a good alternative plan which . . . I explained this all above.

Kai's strategy was to create a confirmed towny by letting the claimed teleporters change play on that moment. These then had to be killed by the scum. (this later proved to be an impossible tactic because of the rules)

There was also talking about sending scummy players to the other universe. These stay in the game, are not confirmed scum or town, etc: these confuse.

So while I argued that we shouldn't do that, the plan to create confirmed townies was good. I argued against sending scummy players, but in favor using Kai's idea to make confirmed townies.

This would all be perfectly fine if you didn't press for no Teleportation whatsoever. Am I incorrect?

there is a suspicion I could be scum and suddenly everything I say is invalid. Plum, simple solution: look at the point itself and see if you agree it is a point against DGB. It is that way always: you look at what other people say and see how much you yourself agree with it.

I thought the point was based on a totally and fairly clearly incorrect reading and interpretation of DGB's words. I had a town-vibe on you at the time, so I dismissed what ordinarily I might have pressed pretty hard (that and the more pressing scumread on DGB). I know it wasn't a valid point against DGB. I dismissed it as a VI moment on your part (we all have those) but after reconsidering you had to reconsider the stark terms you stated a very very wrong interpretation of DGB's words and how you pushed it as a definitive scumslip. So yeah.

@ Gayle: I did not follow Plum. I found it on my own. However, Plum (and whoever else voted myko) already posted the "slip" and wuoting the post might not have done any good.

Wow, I'm not done with the 12th page yet, and I go to this page, and see that. That's one of the biggest slips I have seen in my life!

Vote: mykonian

You found it on your own? Really? Then why did you need to go to this page to see it? And if you did see it on this page, how were you not following me?

Unvote; Vote: CSL

Dangit, someone's gotta be scum here. Seriously.

@ mykonian: quoting would've done MORE harm.

unvote

The vote has served it's purpose.

@CSL:

WHO was your top suspect at this time and WHAT purpose did you intend your vote to serve???

This vote-switching and general tone reminds me of what I saw in CSL when I recently Modded a game he was in; it's since ended. And he was scum. Veyr erratic, got pressured easily about votes (though then again it was a very delicate 2-on-2 endgame scenario. Does anyone here have anything resembling a conclusive meta on CSL at all???).

Still and all, Myk says it best:

CSL: Bullshit. First it was the most important thing in the whole game. Now, you haven't answered my questions, you don't explain at all why quoting would have made it worse, you don't respond to accusations from Gayle, and above all, you UNVOTE.

I think we should cut the fat and thin down the numbers before using the teleportation. Sending all the suspicious players to one universe could be a feasible idea later on in the game when we have claimed power roles.

Have you seen Kairyuu's plan which involves getting each Universe a confirmed Townie fairly late in the game? See if you can look it up and get back to me, please.

ITT DGB recalls wrong about the legit case on CSL. Minus the cherry on top, and you're in danger of losing the caramel sauce if you're not a good girl. Also I am still not comfortable with you in this game, DGB. You'd be a lynch I wouldn't frown at at all.

Taking Raskol's claimed Meta knowledge against ABR into account.

I've got no idea why DGB is so strident on ABR/Myk scumbuddies. I know she likes to do that (even though I hate that stuff on Day 1 especially with only extremely tenuous evidence if any at all) but damn, I find it so unhelpful.

See, this is the stuff I was too tired to want to plow through after getting home late and tired on Monday, and like half of it is useless to me at the moment anyway. Grrrr.

And ABR's utter and shameless uselessness and lack of scumhunting is arrrrgh, and if all is going as usual we have at

least

one scumbag I barely realize exists and is not on my radar at all and I do not want to deal with that sort of thing.

The plum is town comment makes me sudder do to our last game together and that said comment

I remember that one. I think after this and other events DGB has learned some sort of lesson. Or is buddying to me. I certainly know the temptation of buddying to her from recent past experience. On another note, I approve of your DGB case. I am not sold on the EK case, have different vibes (that is, pretty Townie vibes).

I am getting irritated or something about Rhinox's tendency to focus so heavily on past events. I'm trying not to do the same myself despite the amount I need to catch up on (and really, I wasn't keen about having to catch up on like 15 pages myself, okay?). I don't mind that he feels his original case on Myk is very strong, and I don't mind if he thinks that the slip-or-not which I found isn't a real tell; that's all fine and dandy. But interesting stuff came out in the discussion whatever you thought of the slip-or-not and Rhinox barely touched a bit of it, and didn't touch other current stuff like lurky/non-scumhunting ABR, like . . . well, I'd be satisfied with anything so long as there was a bit more emphasis on the current. I'm not saying old scumhunting isn't strong enough or whatever, but that attention should be more consistently applied to also addressing the game as it evolves in real time.

I do appreciate Myk's attempt to use analysis of motivation when attacked. I may be biased, but I think he approached that in a pretty Townie way.

@ABR

do you ever scumhunt at all? Why does it feel like I asked you this in the game we were in together a while back? Why do I seem to recall that you flipped scum in that game, eh? And what was with the unvote, or the original EK vote, for that matter. Basically, WTH, explain.

Also Rhinox's CSL vote comes hell outta nowhere.

@Rhinox

: Why vote CSL there, and what made you set aside the origina case against Myk you clung to for a while with barely a word about him in your post where you unvoted and voted CSL????

It annoys me that no one seems to be able to do the very basic reading needed to understand where Myk's CSL vote came from. Hint, it's the same place mine is coming from.

Farside I still like the DGB case, and after Myk's responses and explanations re: my vote on him I'd much much rather a DGB lynch than a Myk lynch. I notice DGB

never

commented on my original case on her or answered when I asked her why she didn't, as I explained at the top of this post. Seems like DGB-town would be more likely to engage in the conversation with me on that point and scum DGB might be more keen to ignore it.

I can tell the difference from being scum and that's that I'm actually enjoying a putting together a mega-huge catchup post. And it won't take till one in the morning too, I'll bet.

I'm not strongly convinced by Farside's Flare case, but the way he responds directly after her post is awful funny and not more than negligibly scummy, too.

I think Town-DGB reads more than this, but not sure. It

is

hard to read her, and my final determinant on the subject is that if it's not playing like DGB, even if you can't be sure it's playing scummy you lynch it.

Unvote; Vote: DGB

I'd like to see her flip scum. CSL can be reevaluated after her lynch and flip.

I volunteered for jury duty[...].

Real life lynches are more important than play lynches

We found the defendant guilty as charged, but only because the defense was inept. The next night the prosecution was great but the defense wasn't inept and we found Not Guilty. [/interesting RL happenings]

Raskol feels fairly prob Town, as does Farside (a LOT) and to a slightly lesser degree EK and maybe Gayle. The players I'd be happy to see swinging are DGB, CSL, ABR - basically, if you can abbreviate to three letters you look pretty scummy here. Rhinox I'm iffy on. Myk vibes are Town, hesitant to commit on that because of certain actions which don't include the slip-or-not. Fishy is fishy.

Yeah the "QT argument" is the exact same thing you said in War in Heaven...when you were scum. Looks like you're a one trick monkey DGB. Universe II seems ambiguous to losing you as well. Probably your scumpal doc rooting for you.

ABR

can you explain more? I've seen Town-DGB speculate that someone had a scum QT/were being daycoached by a scumbuddy, but not sure if I've seen her insinuate a specific hypothetical scumpair to be doing it. Nevermind, I see you provided links. LOVELY. Also, while I'm at it, can you scumhunt more? I agree with your read on DGB; but no need to stop when you're on a roll (assuming you are). Y'know?

@DGB

Links where you speculated on two specific people being in a scum WT together when you were town, and ASAP please.

plum (lurking again?)

Not for laughs and giggles, I'll tell you that.

I can barely bring to mind anything about evilsnail in this game. Which makes me want to see more of him. Same goes for Ojanen.

I have seen DGB make the scum-QT argument as town. LAL mafia comes ot mind but I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere.

Links please? I'd like to pick apart the differences and similarities between your claimed meta and ABR's. Thanks.

And I don't recall having seen touchy DGB-Town.

Pops, I could probably get a read on you and some good scumhunting would get done between us if you post more and substantially.

Plum's avvie is intriguing.

How so? I'm interested in your interest. [/avatar conversation]

@evilsnail

: What do you think of Raskol? I want this answeres

ASAP

.

As annoying as DGB's play might be, I think she is town, as evidenced by her outright refusal to change the way she plays no matter how scummy anyone might find it.

I think the latter is a function of DGB being DGB, not DGB being Town. Eh.

Fishy brings up a good point about DGB in this post. If DGB was so concerned that answering mykos question was scummy, why wasn't she paying more attention to see who all actually answered the question. That would be an excellent opportunity for a townie to catch scum. Instead, DGB was lazy about it. It makes it seem like scum lazy pretend scum hunting. A townie genuinely scum hunting would have been keeping a close eye out for other players committing the tell.

QFT. BUT. Why still voting CSL? Your vote smells weak and your posts don't give me huge Townie vibes. Not major scum vibes, but overall . . .

Ojanen's catching-up post, however, is hugely pleasing and feels Townie. And I should't drop the CSL case either. Steps in after absence after a bit more suspicion on him and makes an explanation post which is utterly incomprehensible. Ugh.

Ojanen's posts are even more Townie. Sudden desire to engage in a bond of trust goes way way up. Throw Ojanen onto my prob Town pile.

Feels like Pops.Farside is Town-on-Town. Not sure. But. Farside's posting style makes me think she's Town, slight meta base on that one.

Oooooh, confirm vote by Rhinox feels weirdly scummy, especially because it seems like trying to appeal to Ojanen, who recently said he looked v. scummy. I;d like this guy lynched sometime, okay everyone?

A snail or a fish lynch is good enough. I can't count how many scummy things there are in there.

Vote: evilsnail

I am not even going to ask at this point. The scumminess in this game in making me sick. ABR at this point feels somewhat less scummy than before, not worthy of my bottom three.

I'm starting to have to skim some parts quickly because I'll be sent to bed pretty soon.

All right. I'd prefer a DGB lynch. If we can't get that, CSL. If not, Rhinox. Again, I think it's less than likely that CSL and DGB could be buddies. Might be wrong.

Good night, all.

[mykonian]

re: me 'lurking'. Yes, I have been somewhat. I'm in 4 games atm, which is twice as many as I've ever been in before at once, so I'm not going to be posting as much in any of them. I've also been relatively busy in the past few days getting caught up on some reading. The fact that this game is moving so fast doesn't make it any better, either.

That is reasonable, the game is moving a little bit too fast, too much arguing over nothing. But seriously, evilsnail? I would have to reread him, but his posts seemed town to me.

[mykonian]

Aaaaanyway. First of all, I do not consider Myk's "slip" conclusive, especially after his explanation. Slips are rarely clear-cut enough to deal with as strong evidence, and it really was

not

my main point against Myk. I would

not

have unvoted DGB and voted Myk only for that. My main beef with him was an apparent disjoint between his opinion on Kairyuu's plan which involved Teleporting in a specific pattern &c. (that it was good) vs. his preferred plan, which involved no Teleportation at all (implying that Teleportation is bad); seeming to both try to get credit for approving Kai's plan but subtly trying to dissuade us from using it for no good or explained reason at all.

I hope I explained this afterwards. The difference is in the benefit of those plans. Kai's, if it had worked, had given confirmed townies. Teleporting scummy players would just have shoved players around. 1st = good, 2nd = bad.

Kai's strategy was to create a confirmed towny by letting the claimed teleporters change play on that moment. These then had to be killed by the scum. (this later proved to be an impossible tactic because of the rules)

There was also talking about sending scummy players to the other universe. These stay in the game, are not confirmed scum or town, etc: these confuse.

So while I argued that we shouldn't do that, the plan to create confirmed townies was good. I argued against sending scummy players, but in favor using Kai's idea to make confirmed townies.

This would all be perfectly fine if you didn't press for no Teleportation whatsoever. Am I incorrect?

If there is a mechanic that could provide confirmed townies, we would be fools not to exploit that.

Still and all, Myk says it best:

you make me so very very happy. This is a first

Hoopla, do you want me to be teleported to get me in that universe, or out of this one, and why?

PS: Hoopla, you have seen one of my recent games. The game where I tried to look very protown (in stead of trying to find scum). Here is how I play when I have to find scum.

[Fishythefish]

Mykonian doesn't remember playing with me, DGB doesn't remember playing with me, how many people will forget playing with me?

Who are you, and why are you posting in our game?

I think I'll be able to make a real post in 5 hours or so.

[DrippingGoofball]

Unvote; Vote: DGB I'd like to see her flip scum. CSL can be reevaluated after her lynch and flip.

Is this a suggestion to lynch ME first to better evaluate CSL, whom you have also voted on before?

Plum, I read your long post and I have this sinking feeling that you just WANT to vote me. You have no solid reason; all of it is fluff talk because for some reason, you feel like voting me, because it's more convenient to get me out of the way (as I hunt scum like a spinning dervish) than a merely useless player like CSL. I can see why I'd be a lynch priority for scum (especially since for some reason I'm under some suspicion, why not exploit this vulnerability to a most convenient lynch), and that CSL would be the #2 easy lynch.

I doubt CSL is scum and here again you seem to overstate the reasons why he should be today's lynch.

A lot of excuses are made for mykonian and ABR.

Also Rhinox's CSL vote comes hell outta nowhere.

How can you say that when you voted CSL in your post yourself, and claimed CSL to be your second choice later??? Really? Sounds to me like you are trying to manufacture suspicion on Rhinox for voting CSL while finding an excuse for Mykoniann have done the same?

There is a lot of spreading suspicion around.

I'm not providing links where I speculated about QTs as town - go check Medieval Mafia yourself, large theme. Farside knows. Elvis knows. They will vouch for it. You want to vote me, so even if I provide you 3 such links you're not unvoting. I'm too juicy a Day 1 lynch for the scum to pass up. Oh I see. You noted that elvis DID indeed vouch for me. And yet you demand links. Why? I'm guessing it's because you don't want to give up your foregone conclusion/townie-frame.

Pops, I could probably get a read on you and some good scumhunting would get done between us if you post more and substantially.

pops is posting plenty we'll figure out his alignment don't worry.

[Rhinox]

myko 679: ok I can see what you're saying here but IGMEOY still because that is a very weak reason to call someone town. IMO, fishy's response is a null tell, not a town tell. Either scum or town could have made that response.

What did you think of my response to your question by the way? you never really gave any thoughts on it.


Why is everyone talking about CSL like his lynch would be a pure policy lynch? I've never played a mafia game with CSL before, but in this games his few actions have seemed scummy. There's nothing policy about his hypo lynch except the policy of lynching scum.


poor pops... I remember playing with you before. Do you remember playing with me??


DIE SCUM!

double confirm vote: CSL

DGB 709: I agree with you here. But I also find you very scummy. If I don't vote for CSL today, I'll be voting for you.


DGB 736 Using this logic, you are very scummy for the lists you've been throwing around all game.


Plum 759:

I don't really know what you mean about focusing on past events. When I mentioned myko's non-slip, its because the discussion about started after my previous post. It might have happened 10 pages ago at that time, but thats only 24-48 hours or so in real time, so its not really much of a past event. Things I haven't commented on (like ABR since you gave that specific example) is because I have other avenues to explore that are more interesting. Other players are exploring ABR and that is fine. I don't have anything particularly useful to add right now so I'm observing while exploring other areas.

I was early on CSL. I voted for the same reasons you're voting now. I unvoted myko because I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall with our argument, but are disagreements seemed mostly theory disagreements and that didn't make myko scum. and CSL was much scummier. My comments against CSL were first in this post, which CSL continues to ignore.

QFT. BUT. Why still voting CSL? Your vote smells weak and your posts don't give me huge Townie vibes. Not major scum vibes, but overall . . .

At the time, my vote on CSL was more for pressure. He hadn't yet answered my questions, so I didn't want to let him off the hook so easily.

Oooooh, confirm vote by Rhinox feels weirdly scummy, especially because it seems like trying to appeal to Ojanen, who recently said he looked v. scummy. I;d like this guy lynched sometime, okay everyone?

That was the point where my vote changed from "mostly for pressure" to "thinking he's scum". Because Oj brought up a good point and caught CSL in a lie. Considering I don't think I have talked about Oj at all before or since, I don't see how you think that I am trying to appeal to him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

3. Each day has a deadline of 2 weeks. If the deadline is reached, there will be no lynch.

This means we need 7 players to lynch on a 5 player dgb bandwagon. Evilsnail, you claim to find DGB's play bizarre and mildly suspect, so prove it with a vote. Ojanen, vote plz.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I will get to your questions when I can, first priority is to lynch before deadline as of now.

[farside22]

About the part in italics: I don't think I have one post that is my case against DGB, there are a lot of point over multiple posts. In the post you use I say I think she is just trying to read scum in everything I do, and that this manipulation is scummy. I also say that this is not the first time, but that she is doing it over and over again. This is one point (and you are right, one of the weaker) points I have against her.

I'm sorry I'm not understanding this. It could be because I'm feeling sick today but is there a way to rephrase this.

I didn't think them the same, also not in idea. This plus your reluctance to answer, made me think you are scum who is hesitant to answer, while I never had such a feeling with Fishy. I believe I have said this multiple times.

Anyone who wants to openly share their nature as scum and you want to question me because I said I would rather not with valid reason?

Then the last quote. What is there to reply? Do I have to say "you are towny for trying so hard"?, Or do I have to say "why are you trying so hard to look town, Farside?"

Clearly you are making up a case then. Because I'm showing how your comments don't match the action and you know the too towny is a falicy

ie: now leaning more scum on myko at this point

By the way myko this is exactly what I was talking about with meta on DGB

I'm not providing links where I speculated about QTs as town - go check Medieval Mafia yourself, large theme.

She did this last game where she said something about scum talking during the day and was town. I'm wondering why plum is bringing it up since he was in the same game

God help me I agree with DGB about CSL this is sadly more someone I see town then scum.

@pops what is your view about the following players: EK, DGB, ABR, myko and Rhinox

@Hoopla you replaced someone that is on my scum list who offered next to nothing. I would like your views on the players in the game and who you think is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's not do Kairyuu's plan. Seems like scum will abuse it and I don't want the teleporters to claim.

[Gayle]

Why is everyone talking about CSL like his lynch would be a pure policy lynch? I've never played a mafia game with CSL before, but in this games his few actions have seemed scummy. There's nothing policy about his hypo lynch except the policy of lynching scum.

That is a bit disingenuous. No one said that CSL's lynch would be only a policy lynch. The policy lynch came from the fact that pops specifically said he wanted to policy lynch CSL.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I rescind my will to vote CSL under any circumstance. We are lynching DGB-scum today.

[DrippingGoofball]

She did this last game where she said something about scum talking during the day and was town. I'm wondering why plum is bringing it up since he was in the same game.

Was she in the same game? Are you sure? If so, we have Scumplum.

[DrippingGoofball]

I rescind my will to vote CSL under any circumstance.

Speak English.

We are lynching DGB-

scum

today.

We are not.

I think everyone can see you are carrying out a vendetta. And if you are not scum yourself, the scum is taking advantage of it. Your behavior in unequivocally anti-town.

[DrippingGoofball]

CSL trying to act like he's a teleporter now...yeah, PRETTEH SCUMMEH.

Seems like scum will abuse it and I don't want the teleporters to claim.

Maybe CSL is it. You seem to think he hinted. Maybe it's too late? Why the concern about teleporter claims, when you're the one that drew attention to it in thread? Your concern seems fake to me.

What is really scummy is THIS:

I will get to your questions when I can, first priority is to lynch before deadline as of now.

First you carry out your personal vendetta, then you answer questions? That's not how it works.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nothing personal DGB, just winning the game. I'm not mad at you at all girl.