Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[jmurph3]

Now 3 votes against me.

Well. I apologize for whatever it was I did wrong in your books. I am townie, though.

[RayFrost]

jmurph is prob. town.

The latest vote on the wagon is scummy.

unvote, vote: PranaDevil

You basically piggyback the reasoning put forth by others without putting your own analysis into play.

Contrasting this with how you've been putting your own reasoning in play with your other votes, this seems like opportunistic bandwagoning in hopes of a lynch before much discussion happening.

[PranaDevil]

Actually, I agreed more with what others had said, what's more to say than "yeah, good point well made"? If agreeing with others views was a scum tell then either everyone would be scum, or nobody would ever have more than a single vote on them.

[RayFrost]

Actually, I agreed more with what others had said, what's more to say than "yeah, good point well made"? If agreeing with others views was a scum tell then either everyone would be scum, or nobody would ever have more than a single vote on them.

As I said before, scumtells are situational.

In this case, you pretty much mindlessly voted with the other two, stated "I agree with them," didn't add anything to the discussion, didn't give your opinions on other things, and you also use what I feel to be language to help you backpedal as need be ("

somehwat

liking the idea of...").

Your vote contains very little content, makes your stance mild rather than solid despite the vote (Scum keeping the option of running away from the wagon open), and overall has very little that can really be considered helpful.

It's taking a timid stance while voting, which is a form of fencesitting while creating a thin smokescreen to hide that fact by voting.

Also, Fuzzy's case can be broken down into "I don't think jmurph has posted enough content."

This is a rather weak case.

The possible reasoning to find this null is virtually endless. It's a load of newbie tell rather than scum tell.

jmurph could be nervous town that is unsure of how to scumhunt / doesn't know that dying is okay for a townie.

otoh, jmurph could be nervous scum that is trying to stay under the radar.

jmurph could be town that operates like an old T.V. where it takes a while to start up but works fine after that, which would make jmurph a slow-to-get-there scumhunter, but still a scumhunter.

jmurph could be scum that doesn't know how to fake scumhunting.

Now, let's look at what this covers.

It covers the possibility that jmurph is new.

Nothing else.

The case is bad.

The wagon is bad.

[PranaDevil]

and how many "good" wagons turn up day one? most of the time it winds up being an accidental townie lynch anyway, at least if someone gets some pressure on them then they might reveal something. jmurph has been very quiet, perhaps some pressure might push her to talking more.

[RayFrost]

and how many "good" wagons turn up day one? most of the time it winds up being an accidental townie lynch anyway, at least if someone gets some pressure on them then they might reveal something. jmurph has been very quiet, perhaps some pressure might push her to talking more.

I've been part of wagons that lynched scum day 1. In fact, I've

started

wagons that lynched scum day 1. (read one of the games I was talking about, scum got lynched D1 cuz of me awesome scumhunting skillz, and I got NKed night 1 cuz of me awesome scumhunting skillz)

Using "we are likely going to lynch a townie anyway" as reasoning to let any old lynch go through / avoid scumhunting is such terribad reasoning that it really reinforces my vote on you.

You are essentially saying that any lynch is good, regardless of who is lynched or the reasoning behind it. This is extremely bad and I can only really see scum motivation from it, since it shows apathy toward the quality of the case as long as the lynch goes through. This kind of logic is what scum would likely have considering that, as long as it isn't them or their buddy, scum don't care who dies.

Wagons are great, but intending to lynch somebody based off of such a terrible case is not.

The wagon's way too fast in growth to be town-only, imo.

It started less than two pages ago and yet there are already three votes.

"Good" wagons turn up all the time on Day 1.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP (accidentally hit submit before being finished):

"Good wagons turn up all the time on Day 1. The jmurph wagon is not an example of this, and bad wagons are

bad

.

[jmurph3]

Unfortunately, I'm not the start urgently defending myself because a bunch of people are jumping on the bandwagon against me type. As I've stated before (namely in my pseudo-accusation of Ray - ironic, given as he is now defending me), I consider over defense and over talking to be scumtell, in my real life experience, hence why I'm not doing either of those. Now, I've read Ray's previous games and thus know that this is the way he goes. Hence why I did not turn what I said into a formal vote.

If you want to lynch me, I cannot stop you. I can tell you that it will be a waste of a day townie-lynch.

[RayFrost]

You really shouldn't be saying your role unless one of the SE's or the IC says you should role claim (which they shouldn't only do if you get one vote away from a lynch and are going to be hammered)

[PranaDevil]

I've been part of wagons that lynched scum day 1. In fact, I've

started

wagons that lynched scum day 1. (read one of the games I was talking about, scum got lynched D1 cuz of me awesome scumhunting skillz, and I got NKed night 1 cuz of me awesome scumhunting skillz)

But is that what "normally" happens in your games, or was that a one off?

Using "we are likely going to lynch a townie anyway" as reasoning to let any old lynch go through / avoid scumhunting is such terribad reasoning that it really reinforces my vote on you.

I never said it was good reasoning, in fact I said my reasoning was to instigate something, and if anything her choosing not to say something speaks volumes to me, perhaps it's being instantly wary of saying the wrong thing and causing "foot in mouth" syndrome?

In the words of Ronan Keating "you say it best when you say nothing at all" eh?

You are essentially saying that any lynch is good, regardless of who is lynched or the reasoning behind it. This is extremely bad and I can only really see scum motivation from it, since it shows apathy toward the quality of the case as long as the lynch goes through. This kind of logic is what scum would likely have considering that, as long as it isn't them or their buddy, scum don't care who dies.

See, this is where you are coming unstuck yourself, you're putting words in my mouth, I said it was more likely to land a townie lynch on D1, somehow that's me saying "any lynch is good" and no, it's not, I never said it was, but playing like it is does, indeed, perhaps draw out people desperate to get others off the hook, wouldn't you say?

Right now I have my suspicions on jmurph, but trying to put words in my mouth to turn people on me is blatantly scummy tactics there Ray.

unvote; vote: Ray Frost

[jmurph3]

As an honestly confused person, is stating that I'm town role-claiming? When I've played, claiming an important role (i.e. cop, doctor, etc.) was frowned upon, but saying you're town is a valid defense.

Just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

[RayFrost]

Hahahaha.

If it is often a mislynch on D1 and you are resigning to that fact, you are essentially giving free reign of lynching a townie.

It becomes

okay

to lynch a townie rather than to lynch scum by default of "resigning" yourself to that.

I'm not really putting many words in your mouth, here.

You say it's often a townie lynch D1 as an excuse to get a bye on your behavior, which is scummy.

Looking at it from you-scum, you would want any lynch to be good regardless of who or why.

Just saying "it's often a townie lynch" as a defense is about as good as me saying "but I'm a guy!" as a defense against you voting me :/

Your reasoning for voting me is flimsy at best, since it can be summed up in "i dun like u" covered by a thin film of BS.

[RayFrost]

As an honestly confused person, is stating that I'm town role-claiming? When I've played, claiming an important role (i.e. cop, doctor, etc.) was frowned upon, but saying you're town is a valid defense.

Just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

"townie" is a role.

So you saying "I'm a townie" is saying that you are vanilla town, as in not a power role.

If you are, in fact, a townie, you should not claim cop/doctor, but you shouldn't be claiming at all at this point.

Saying you are town is about as good a defense as saying "but u guys should trust me because I say so," which isn't very convincing.

[PranaDevil]

I didn't view the phrase "townie-lynch" to be roleclaiming, just saying that she's on the town side. I wouldn't view townie as roleclaiming a vanilla role, would be a bit... well, silly.

and no Ray, you were putting words in my mouth, I never once said any lynch is a good lynch, I said we are more likely to lynch a town on day one, and by that I mean "it's best to see what you can do, go for gut instincts, if someone gives something away that looks scummy, don't be afraid to go for it, and above all else, don't be afraid to jump on a bandwagon if you think the person looks scummy".

a jmurph bandwagon wasn't going to do much in the way of harm, as I was only on there to see what sort of response would come from it, the response being murph not being smurfed, and Ray jumping off the deep end with stuff I hadn't said.

I'm more than happy with my vote on Ray.

[RayFrost]

Sweet, you are voting me, and I'm voting you.

/twiddles thumbs

[PranaDevil]

and stop twiddling my thumbs, twiddle your own. :p

[Skill006]

Oh man. This is gonna be a rough game. Everyone is so intelligent. Oh well, 'least everyone has big avatars and good grammar. ^_^

apathy has good logic for just one post. I would point out that he's tunneling Ray (as i think fuzzy pointed out) if it weren't for the fact that I was too so...

fuzzylightning disturbed me when he contradicted himself in playstyle:

while others may have a high volume of posts to clutter up the thread and discourage people from trying to figure out what they are saying

While you don't have a high volume of posts, your posts are so blocked together that it's scary to look at and I'm...well, discouraged to read it (although, i did read all of your posts through because I'm considerate like that ).

I dunno if anyone else feels that way, and I'm pretty sure it's just writing style (after all, everything you say is useful), but it's a bit hard to get through your stuff. My recommendation is to break it up a bit so people can read it, although if you don't want to that's fine.

Now for my actual read on you- You have been posting a considerable amount of information, but most of it is game theory and the like. When it's not, it's asking questions. While its good to ask questions, you just keep asking them, even after you get answers. When you get other people to open up about their case, it's easier to attack them.

It's kind of a mix of gut, a mix of posting style, but:

vote:fuzzylightning

[RayFrost]

Apathy has ~1 post that involves a case, so they can't be tunneling.

Not enough posts to have been doing so.

[RayFrost]

aaaaaand I love how the defense I put forth is ignored by skillz0r, which means skillzzzz isn't reading the entire thread or didn't think that the defense was worthwhile but is too lazy to say that.

[Skill006]

As an honestly confused person, is stating that I'm town role-claiming? When I've played, claiming an important role (i.e. cop, doctor, etc.) was frowned upon, but saying you're town is a valid defense.

Just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

"townie" is a role.

So you saying "I'm a townie" is saying that you are vanilla town, as in not a power role.

If you are, in fact, a townie, you should not claim cop/doctor, but you shouldn't be claiming at all at this point.

Saying you are town is about as good a defense as saying "but u guys should trust me because I say so," which isn't very convincing.

You! quit trying to make it seem like people have claimed or not claimed. I don't think anyone has claimed anything yet. You're so worried about everybody's roles, it's making you look scummy.

[Skill006]

aaaaaand I love how the defense I put forth is ignored by skillz0r, which means skillzzzz isn't reading the entire thread or didn't think that the defense was worthwhile but is too lazy to say that.

No my attack was not really an attack, it was a failed attempt to get a game going that was already going, I didn't really believe much in that case. >.> He's gonna call me scummy, now

[RayFrost]

You! quit trying to make it seem like people have claimed or not claimed. I don't think anyone has claimed anything yet. You're so worried about everybody's roles, it's making you look scummy.

Yah, sorry, I just don't like seeing

claims

happening prematurely.

TOWNIE is a common term for VT, so my thinking that was a claim is perfectly logical.

I feel that things like that will grate on my nerves, so I figure out why, and I realize it's because it

seems like a claim because many claims are worded almost exactly the same

, which makes me go into the lesson of don't claim prematurely.

[Skill006]

You! quit trying to make it seem like people have claimed or not claimed. I don't think anyone has claimed anything yet. You're so worried about everybody's roles, it's making you look scummy.

Yah, sorry, I just don't like seeing

claims

happening prematurely.

TOWNIE is a common term for VT, so my thinking that was a claim is perfectly logical.

I feel that things like that will grate on my nerves, so I figure out why, and I realize it's because it

seems like a claim because many claims are worded almost exactly the same

, which makes me go into the lesson of don't claim prematurely.

well...ok. dat makes sense.
it didn't even seem like a specific claim, though. town, townie, there's no difference to someone who hasn't played 5000+ games.

[RayFrost]

I've only finished around 30.

[Skill006]

I've only finished around 30.

O_O; That's prob. more than our actual IC...I don't understand why you be an SE. You seem more than confident enough in your ability.