Open 190 - Trendy and Subversive C9 - Over

[startransmission]

What am I missing here? By the way, I don't recall you ever going into what those other reasons are. Please do, and make sure they're different from Kitty's.

^Oh, and this one too.

I don't want a massclaim. When I'm in newbie games and it comes down to lylo I usually do call for a massclaim. It pins people down to roles, and prevents any false PR claims at deadline. The difference here is two things. (1. I only urge massclaims when the lylo is on the last day. No matter who gets lynched, the game will be over. Not the case here. (2. I'm convinced that DocPotter is scum. I don't want scum getting the information of what roles there are and who has them. And make no mistake, that is why Doc has brought up the massclaim.

Ok, give me a few and I'll post up why I'm so convinced Doc is scum.

[DocPotter]

I apologize for being absent the last couple of days.

I answered everything. You're still misquoting me, and you're not thinking.

Where have I misquoted you? And here are some of the questions that have been asked of you that you have not responded to.

In my verry next post to the one yo quoted I provided a clear example of you mis-quoting me.

I didn't read all of his games. I referenced the one other game I played in with him. His behavior as scum was fairly consistent with his behavior here. I discarded nothing. The mistake is yours. And what does lurkery mean?

Do I really need to provide a definition for an adjectival form of Lurker? Seriously do I?

I don't believe that. So what was the reason? Why wouldn't you bring up that reason when you FoSed me? How could I not think that you were FoSing me for not going along with the no lynch, when the only content of that post was you agreeing/buddying with Kitty for being for it, while scolding me for not?

First. From my post immediatly before the one you quoted above: "Finally, I never ment for you to think that I was fossing you for you stance on a no-lynch. That was not the reason and I'm sorry for making it appear like it was. "
Second if by now you haven't figgured out that the FOS was for the doctor congratulations comment, the thing that is part of why I'm voting for you, the thing that has dominated the thread for the last few days.

So where did I discard/cherrypick? By the way, what was the name of the game that I played with him? I really don't think you have even read through it.

Do I have to provide this again? "Of course claiming that your vote was random and claiming a non-random reason", from the same post I just quoted, is the summary from where I listed your discard, with quotes.

Doc how can you even remotely think that a no lynch is the way to go? Did you see my post where I describe three possible scenarios, all of which are bad for the town?

Strangely, did you read Kitty's colourful post that spelt it out?

1. If we no no lynch today then everyday afterwards will be lylo. Advantage: Scum.

2. If we no lynch today and assuming scum get a NK, they will NK the player that is the biggest threat to them. Advantage: Scum.

3. I we no lynch today then the precious 3 townies to 2 scum ratio will allow scum to have a bigger influence on which wagon to move forward with, as well as a larger presence on that wagon. Advantage: Scum.

If we no-lynch today, then the odds of us lynching scum increase signficantly.
Even if we do manage to lynch scum today, the NK will still happen.
As I said, the chances of hitting scum increase. So you're 1, 2, 3 become Pro-town, null, pro-town

I would really like you to clarify what you meant here. Ah, and please try and copy the real quote, whole quote.

Star asked "When did he agee with someone and then hold it against them". I showed him what is practically the same thing, with supporting quotes

Excuse me? My point was that a no-lynch today would hurt the already insanely slow pace of this game. So where's the inconsistency? And when else did I agree with somebody about something, and then hold it against them?

What? He was focused and played reasonably well? Are you serious? But wait, he also played scummy? So which is it? And when did I say that my meta on him was based on him making mistakes?

Do I need to answer this one again as well? You said that your vote was, and was not, based on similarities in the way he played in the last game he played with you. In that game Mipe was scum. He also played the same way in his first game and was scum there as well. I'm saying that you should have seen that he was also different from those two games to this one. That he was more mistake ridden and less focussed in this one.
I never said that your Meta reason was based on his mistakes. I'm saying that you completely ignored that part of his meta to provide, and somehow not provide, a reason for your vote.

So we have yet annother lie from Star. The only question I hadn't answered was from Kunk, after I said I had answered everything.

I hope people are paying attention to these lies and mis-representations.

Oh, if #200 is refering to the no-lynch that is now clearly not happening, my reasons are the same as Kitty's because it would have been the right thing to do for exactly those reasons.
But then we don't need a no-lynch now.

[startransmission]

Why I Think DocPotter Is Scum

1. Comes in and FoS's the two players under the most scrutiny, being myself and Mipe. This is classic fencesitting. When the tide turns against Mipe he hops on the wagon.

2. Votes for Mipe without citing any reason other than a lackluster defense. Oddly my "lies" aren't an issue for him.

3. FoS's me for not going along with the no lynch. Apparently we're supposed to believe that the FoS was actually because I congratulated the doc. Interesting, as that is not referenced in the post where he FoS'd me. More interesting? That is also not referenced in the "iso" he did on me in which he FoS'd me a second time.

4. Buddy's up to Kitty. See iso posts 7,8,10,23,24 and 25.

5. Says that he's read the meta I had on Mipe (after Mipe was lynched mind you) and claims I disregarded information. He then quotes a game that I did not play in, let alone read. When I ask him what game I was referring to, he refuses to answer. I press this issue because the search function is off right now, and I don't believe he ever read the meta to which I referred.

6. Claims I abandoned the reasons for my vote (I stand by any and every quote regarding the Mipe wagon) and am trying to change history. The history in this game ain't that deep. Is seemingly unable to pull quotes, and when he does he breaks them up and presents them out of context to sell his point. He also like to "paraphrase"... which translates to putting words into my mouth.

7. Despite believing so strongly that a no-lynch is the town's best option, places an OMGUS vote on me.

8. Wants people to claim. Is openly trying to out town PR's.

Summary/Theory/Narrative

DocPotter inherits a mafia role and replaces into the game. He sees that Mipe and Startransmission are the two players under scrutiny. He places an FoS on both. Good scum cover their bases. Sleepless has issues with ST's joke vote on Mipe, and Doc wants a little taste of that action. He calls ST's reasons for voting Mipe "disingenuous". He calls out people for not posting enough, but places suspicion on people who post

too

much. Soon ST finds real reasons to lynch Mipe, documents and explains them, and starts actually pressing for his lynch. Perfect for Doc, Mipe is both town and he's a boob. Doc sees the opportunity and hops on the wagon. Mipe is lynched.

Day 2 starts. Does some fluff Iso stuff, and comes to some conclusions. He had been giving Kitty a rough time over her posting, but it clearly wasn't going anywhere so he figures the best thing to do is to buddy up to her.

On a dime

he begins to like her posting, and begins to have "definite town feelings" from her. That dime? Kitty wants a no lynch. Doc can't believe his luck. People are quiet, but the most active poster wants a no lynch? Easy win. Kitty throws out some math which makes such an abomination seem reasonable. Doc latches on. But then stupid ol' ST says he doesn't want a no lynch. Kitty continues with her reasoning, but that shithead ST won't budge. So, Doc FoS's him for not agreeing with Kitty. In fact, Doc is so sure that everyone is on his side, he puts together a little case on Star.

(stick with me folks)

Doc thinks that this'll be pretty easy. After all, ST pushed for a Mipe lynch and Mipe flipped town. Surely, that can be used. So, he goes back to the well and uses SA's case against ST. But what if people point out that Doc had nothing to say about the matter on Day 1? And that he was on the Mipe wagon himself, the reason being that Mipe didn't defend himself against ST's points? Eh, nobody's really posting, and SA will probably side with him. Plus Kitty should be on his team now too. But what's this?? ST fights back? Crap. Doc begins to flail, misquote, paraphrase, and misrepresent ST in a lame attempt to paint him as a liar. In doing so he tries to make it look like ST is doing a Appeal to Emotion, and wonders why ST ever got the idea that he would be FoS'd or voted for not going along with the no-lynch. ST quotes Doc doing just that.

OOPSIE POOPSIE!!!

Doc realizes his mistake, and tries to pass it off with an apology. ST isn't satisfied. Doc goes back to the drawing board, and steals SA's concern over ST congratulating the Doctor as his reason for FoSing ST. SA seemed to think that it was a scumtell, and surely this time Doc can bring him aboard the ST lynch wagon once again! Doc abandons the whole Mipe wagon thing, and..

(Guy, I honestly cannot follow Doc's logic at all. If anyone else can, please explain it to me.)

He then presents the conclusion that ST could only be the doctor or scum, and somehow ST not being cool with being called a liar makes him not a doctor, therefore he is scum. Doc then asks for a massclaim. Why? So that scum will get the information they need- the identity of the doctor. Two things are accomplished. There is obviously a doctor, and scum will find out who via the claim. It will also somehow validate Doc's bizarre theory that because I am not the doctor that I must be scum. Two birds, one stone.

By the way, I'm not saying I'm not the doctor. I won't claim, soft or otherwise, until I am at L-1 and am specifically asked.

Please, everybody, re read the thread. It's not that long. We can lynch scum right now, and we will be out of lylo for at least another day.

[startransmission]

I'll respond to 201 tomorrow.

[DocPotter]

Aren't you sick of lieing yet Star?

Sue me for being suspicious of the two most suspect players.

I challanged Mipe to provide something, anything. He didn't.

Meaning we have a doctor that made the correct choice, unless I'm missing something. Can we count on that happening again tonight?

And I don't think it's really pro-town to be discussing about why or why not there was a nightkill. One time back in the day I was scum and I dropped a cop breadcrumb day 1. My partner pointed this out, and from the extremely awkward response of the real cop (something along the lines of "well, I don't think she's the cop, but I...uh...yeah" in a more complicated form), which allowed us to successfully roleblock her every night. If a successful doc protect was the reason for the lack of nightkill, we don't want the doctor to accidentally slip.

fos Star Kitty partly explained one reason why what you started talking about was a bad idea. There are more.

Is this not a simple link. Is this not an obvious link. This is exactly what you started talking about. This!


131 Star talks about the doc, again
132 Kitty starts to tell Star off for talking about the doc.
133 I fos star, citing Kitty.

How bloody obvious does it have to be? They were 3 sequential posts Star. How could you fail to understand.
YOu didn't of course. YOu are creating all sorts of rubbish about me FOSsing you for the no-lynch thing which I have repeatedly said is wrong. I have shown you it is wrong. I even apologised for giving you the wrong idea. AND YOU ARE STILL MIS-REPRESENTING ME ON IT!

4. Buddy's up to Kitty. See iso posts 7,

8

,10,23,24 and 25.

My iso 8 is my post #133, the one you are claiming to misread. Surely if you think it was buddying then you read Kitty's post as well. Surely you noticed what you started talking about in the post before.
You're even condeming your own arguements as bogus in your attempts to cast doubt on me.

Do you, or do you not concede hat in finding one of Mipes three games at that stage, I had also found the second game he played that particular one you were in. That in quoting the finished one I indicatd that I had looked. You constantly ask what I am on about, and I have stated this three or four times now. I have refused nothing. Again you lie.

Do I have to quote you again? Honestly do I have to quote you back peddling from your vote reasons again.

I am in favour of a mass claim because it will help identify your scum buddy.

Your fluff is so wrong and biased that it isn't even funny. But since you have ignored every other tiome I've quoted corrections at you, quoted you, I shan't bother.

Star, you are honestly unbelievable. It is not an OMGUS vote when I have given you my reasons multiple times. Multiple reasons, multiple times. On this page alone I have listed multiple reasons. I really hate the way people, especially scum, try throwing OMGUS around to try and discredit votes on them. I even said that I was in favour of a no-lynch, until you prooved beyond a doubt that you are scum. Do I have to quote that back at you again?

Die scum die.
It is beyond a joke. It is beyond needing to be prooven it has been prooved so often. Just on the no-lynch issue alone you have continuously lied and mis-represented me on it. Let alone every other time I've raised one of your lies or mis-representations.

The funniest part, is that in your trying to say why I was scum, you had to mis-represent me so badly. That you could not provide a single quote. Perhaps I have finally gotten you to stop mis-quoting me by continuously correcting them when you do it. But then it's easier to mis-represent someone when you don't provide the quotes isn't it.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

startransmission (1): DocPotter
DocPotter (2): Sleepless Assassin, startransmission
not voting: KittyMo, wolframnhart, kunkstar7

Deadline is about a week away.

kunkstar7 has been prodded.

[kunkstar7]

The following scumpairs are now pretty unlikely:
Kunkstar7/wolframnhart
Kunkstar7/KittyMo
wolframnhart/KittyMo

because any of these pairs would've had a chance to quickhammer DocPotter by now. Just figured I'd put that out there. =]

This. The fact that DocPotter hasn't been hammered yet has some implications. Either he is scum, so they don't have enough to force the kill. Or more likely imo, one scum is already on. The pairs are unlikely but still one of these three is possible scum. One idea I toyed with is putting a third vote and seeing if the vote went through. Yet this is a touchy move, as you might as well be hammering if Doc is not scum and they are holding to one on and one off at the moment. The pressure of losing this game is really staying my hand at this point.

Between DocPotter and Startransmission, I am losing the argument, its hard to follow. I will try to focus.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Kitty, massclaim is a bad idea. There's no guarantee that we are in LYLO. We more than likely have a doc. If the doc protects successfully, we get another day even if we mislynch. If we massclaim, scum know power roles. Scum will target the doc. We don't want to give them that chance. Massclaiming is a BAD BAD BAD idea.

[startransmission]

This is insane.

More DocPotter votes please.

[kunkstar7]

Ok this isn't going anywhere, someone's got to make a decision.

Vote: DocPotter

Your answers to startransmission have been unsatisfactory. I see "look at this, this proves something!" Without explicitly pointing out what you are trying to put the suspicion of. I believe you are the one misrepresenting startransmission. He did not ever backpedal from his vote on mipe, which was originally random but he found later reasons that justified the previously random vote. Agreeing with both a massclaim and a no-lynch...that's not good. I'm not saying your scummy because of the no-lynch idea, because mathematically to me it looks the better option. Yet you have mentioned both for this day. Trying to out the power roles and attempting to skip the day lynch doesn't work together. It seems excessive that you favored both, hoping that either way you get the scum some advantage, either a free day off or they learn the power roles.

[kunkstar7]

EBWOP: And now that you are at L-1, I would like a claim from you.

[wolframnhart]

vote DocPotter

Totally agree with start. We need to move on.

[kunkstar7]

Why not wait for a claim? Too late now though....

[startransmission]

Arrgghh. I wanted a claim as well.

Wolf coming in and hammering the way he did makes me nervous about Doc.

[startransmission]

Hrm. If Doc flips town I'm going to guess a Sleepless and Wolf scumpair.

[Excedrin]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

startransmission (1): DocPotter
DocPotter (4): Sleepless Assassin, startransmission, kunkstar7, wolframnhart
not voting: KittyMo

DocPotter, townie, lynched d2.

It's Night 2. Submit actions if you have them (oooh I hope I didn't make everyone townies). Night 2 ends in 72 hours or so.

[Excedrin]

Game Over!

KittyMo, doctor, died.

Mafia wins.













Sleepless Assassin mafia rb
wolframnhart mafia goon
KittyMo doctor
kunkstar7 nurse
startransmission townie
kunkstar7 townie
DocPotter townie

N1 KittyMo protected kunkstar7
N1 scumteam killed kunkstar7 and blocked startransmission

N2 KittyMo protected nobody (I opened the thread ahead of time since scum win can't be prevented)
N2 scumteam killed KittyMo and blocked startransmission

[wolframnhart]

Mwuahahahhhaahahahaha! my laugh is an evil laugh!!!

GG, kinda sad how it stalled out there, and really I am glad DocPotter and Startransmission had their little back and forth going on there because it kept everyone from asking me what i really thought if the game etc. because I didn't even bother to really read the thread, I knew all i needed was to quick hammer the biggest wagon to win, and I also knew who was the doctor after Kitty was asking for a mass claim, so all i needed was one more vote on someone (thank you kunk for that). I think town would have really won this had they taken a second to really look at the votes on the second day. Sleepless was kind of just sitting there with his vote on Doc, Star was pushing real cases, Kitty knew kunk was town (she protected him after all) and I was just waiting, really I should have been gone after with Sleepless right away.

All in all was fun while I was in it.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Yeah, Excedrin said docs couldn't self-protect because I had asked. He asked if he should post that in thread, and I said if you do, don't tell anyone I asked. I asked because I knew it made Kunk non-doc. Star was also non-doc because we blocked him and our kill was stopped. That left DocPotter and Kitty as possible docs. So we had to lynch one of them to find out for sure who the doc was. Then all we'd have to do to win is kill the known doc, Kitty. I knew Kitty probably wouldn't be lynched, so I went after Doc. Star making his case and going back and forth set up a "Star or Doc, take a side" which was perfect. We got our other town vote and Wolf knew what to do.

Thanks guys. I had fun. This was my first time being scum so I'm happy that we won.

[KittyMo]

Ugh. I thought it was Sleepless Assassin/Startransmission for sure until wolf pulled that hammer. DocPotter was getting more obvtown as the day carried on, but I didn't speak up enough to stop it... I feel really crappy that I set up such an easy mislynch.

I thought wolf was pretty obvtown, and I knew kunkstar was. I protected him just because I figured me, Sleepless, or he would die, and then looking closely at why scum would benefit from killing me VS those 2, I figured they were most likely to kill him. For some reason I thought I would be the obvkill. Lol.

By the way, you didn't need to lynch me or Doc because you could always roleblock one of us and kill the other...I realized that later. I should've noticed that and told people of that while scum were pushing a mylo lynch. Oh well.

Ummm. Apparently nobody noticed my obvious as hell breadcrumb? Lemme find it again...

P

retty much there's not a single post he's made that I actually like.

R

eplacing in, all he really says is that he has suspicions of the same 2 people that pretty much everyone else does. Then, he doesn't comment on anything anybody else says, just how much they've posted. As scum in the past, I focused on this a lot because it was a convenient way to make it look like I was doing something without actually scumhunting. I'm not a fan of the mipe vote either.

O

h, and the way malpascp dropped off the face of the game seems scummy to me.

T

he thing here is that a good portion of my scumhunting in this game has taken place in my head because I'm not willing to post 80,000 times when there's nothing to reply to.

E

ventually, Sleepless Assassin, keep in mind that our goal today is probably to no lynch because we have 6 players alive. We're in mislynch or lose.

C

onsequently, L-3 votes are okay, but L-2 votes have the danger of a scum quickhammer.

THESE WERE MY FIRST 3 POSTS ON DAY 2 AND ONLY HAD ONE POST IN BETWEEN EACH ONE. I realized how obvious it was, and then stopped crumbing, since I figured it was obv who I protected anyways. Who else would've been killed N1 besides Kunk? But yeahhhh.

I think Sleepless should've roleblocked himself the last night.

Anyways, town, I'm sorry I couldn't salvage the game from its state of nobody caring. If I'd cared more Day 2 and was less irritated about my awesomely protown plans being shot down, I think we could've ended up lynching Sleepless. I dunno if I would've ever caught wolf, though. :/ Tho I would've died because I was obvdoctor anyways, so I could leave that up to the rest of you. (:

Good game, scum. (Haha, you just lost it too! )

[KittyMo]

2 more things:

not really a prod since I know you're sick, but plz come back omgz everyone misses you!

seriously you're the voice of reason in this game, it's amusing.

---

Oh, so the last post I'd read was Kunkstar commenting on impossible scumpairs as of that point. Reading through to wolf's hammer, I was like NO NO NO NO WHY DID YOU LYNCH SOMEONE A WEEK BEFORE THE DEADLINE?! and upon having my non-suspicions confirmed seeing the flip, I was really pissed. I even went on to the irc channel where Excedrin, mipe, and me go. (Cat used to, apparently) and private messaged Excedrin screaming gibberish in all caps. >_> All he did in response was " " so I gave up on that. Lol.

[startransmission]

Well, lack of activity killed us. I had a bad feeling about Wolf and Sleepless, and when Wolf hammered I knew for sure. I just couldn't let go of Doc, I was just too sure he was scum.

Congratz scum. Not a setup I particularly care for, a little too stacked. But as long as Excedrin is PMing players with hints and flattery, I'm glad it was to town.

[KittyMo]

But as long as Excedrin is PMing players with hints and flattery, I'm glad it was to town.

Excedrin and I have known eachother for a few months, so that may have to do with the flattery. Also, in the irc place we come from, it's just generally accepted that in lylo, you massclaim, and in mylo, you no lynch and if you don't no lynch, you massclaim. So even if he hadn't said that in the PM, I already knew that was his opinion on things.

[DocPotter]

Dammit. I was thinking that Kitty had to be the kill target that got saved.

[KittyMo]

Dammit. I was thinking that Kitty had to be the kill target that got saved.

So that's why you were kinda buddying me...