Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[Sotty7]

Anyway. This is probably over-speculation, but the role most likely to be replaced iis probably a vanilla townie. As it is the hardest role to "get in to" IMO. Add that to my mostly town read on budja and I don't think Fate is scum. Wickedestjr, however, is the person that needs to be looked at for fluff and waffling.

This is a stretch. Different players react to different roles and a lot of people like to draw VT. It looks like that player slot just drew two flaky players back to back. Can you explain how you got a town read on Bujda? He did next to nothing when he was here.

I don't see an issue with Fate's entrance. Would be nice if he explained his reads a little more, but I agree with his vote on Pman.

[Wickedestjr]

He's fine with going through attacks on him point by point, but doesn't seem to be making any of his own.

I've made my case against pman. Also, defending myself has consumed most of my online time.

[quote"Wicked"]1b: From memory, Leaf actually defended himself to my satisfaction before I got a town read on Kitten.

This is not true. You continued to push me over the night talk rules quite a while after you changed your vote away from me. The reason you gave was

I am not as suspicious of Leaf as I was before because I don't see Kitten and Leaf being partners and I think Kitten is more suspicious, but I would still like responses to my questions from Leaf.

Implying that you still thought I was scummy, but that Kitten was scummier, and I wasn't going to be her partner. It had nothing to do with my defending myself.[/quote]

What? I found you less scummy when Kitten voted you, but then you eventually defended yourself to my satisfaction. (That was when I stopped questioning the issue.) After that, Kitten convinced me she was town.

I also really don't like the way Wick is answering questions with questions and mildly counterattacking the asker.

Why?

Also, asking for the exact place to defend yourself is pretty scummy.

What?

[pman5595]

I wasn't going to respond to this, because it is the same stuff that was in his other case repeated. But he "blackmailed" me

How concerned are you about the purported "blackmail" of someone you think is scum?

I'm not concerned about him and his views, but if he keeps bringing it up, other people might believe him.

[Ythill]

I agree with the people complaining about pman's speculation. I think it's true that VT's are more likely to flake, but not by enough that it sends a clear signal. Also, I think the timing of the flake-out can sometimes be indicitive of scum, but that the timing in these instances was null.

@Ythill: My read isn't that scum are sitting back and doing nothing. It is just that they are being very "unproductive."

OIC. What you said was, "My read in this game is that the scum are sitting back and letting town lynch themselves." I might have taken you too literally but I'm going to keep this discrepeancy in mind.

IIoA noted. I wasn't going to jump on my own bandwagon, and I don't think wicked is scum. If the votals are right, Pman's wagon is only 2 votes right now, but it was the best option out of all those I suspected.

Fair enough. Tangential question: what does the extra "I" mean in IIoA?

[pman5595]

Tangential question: what does the extra "I" mean in IIoA?

really off topic here, but I read that as tan genital question. But I was wondering the same thing

[Oman]

Just here to say: "hehe tanned genitals".

Other than that I have little to add to this latest round.

[Ythill]

I read that as tan genital question

Tan genital question: do you want to go to the nude beach?

Oman, why no vote on Wick?

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 456

Wickedestjr (4): pman5595, Ythill, Leafsnail, CrashTextDummie
Moriarty147 (2): Sotty7, Oman
pman5595 (2): Wickedestjr, Fate
Fate (1): Thesp
Oman (1): Moriarty147


Not Voting:

With 10 Players, a majority of 6 is needed for a lynch. The deadline is 2pm, 11th of February 2010 (GMT).

Less genital talk please. I love banter as much as anyone, but keep it clean lads.

[Thesp]

This close to a deadline, no sense in my vote being all lonesome. I will gladly move it back to Fate if there's a possibility of a wagon there.

Unvote: Fate, Vote: pman5595.

[Sotty7]

Deadline is a week away Thesp. There is still plenty of time to push your number one.

[Wickedestjr]

After seeing Kitten's comment, I realized I found her scummier, and realized I was wrong about Leaf. Not once did I suspect both of them.

This was because I wasn't going to just let Leaf off the hook because I found a new suspect.

???

Oh. Sorry. The first quote should be "...and realized I might be wrong about Leaf."

...But I would have still wanted him to defend against the accusation even if I thought he was the towniest person in the game. There's no reason for him not to.

[Wickedestjr]

My very first suspicion in the game was Leaf because of a possible Leaf and Ellibereth connection. Sure I thought the points had merit, but 4 pages in the game, that wasn't a case I wasn't going to stick with forever unless nobody seemed scummier, or Leaf reacted strangely. However, the opposites of those two things occured. I got a new suspect (Kitten) and Leaf didn't react strangely to the accusation. It took him a day or two I think it was to convince me, but I eventually thought he was town based on his response.

I've already shown you that this isn't true. And you've ignored it. You voted Kitten because you thought she was scum and that made me town. And you continued to press me anyway. This segment is an outright lie.

Where exactly am I lying? Just because I think you are town doesn't mean I am supposed to let you off the hook. People make mistakes.

Another reason I voted him was to see how he would react so I could figure out if he was town or scum. I thought he was town and also thought Ellibereth was town based on his behavior later in the game. Kitten seemed scummier with her strange reasons for voting Leaf. I voted her for these reasons. She defended herself to my satisfaction.

1: Where? 2: And why did you chase her all the way to L-1?

1: What is this in reference too?

2: I didn't chase her to L-1. I was one of the first few people to vote her.

I have to say though that the day was cut short for me. I usually need about 20 pages at least to get a decent idea of who the scum were. That is why my suspects changed a lot day 1 and it is my town meta to do that. I can show you several games to prove it.

Meta based defence is null - any decent player can manipulate their town meta, especially if they are the one to bring it up. What is scummy is that you're trying to use it as a shield.[/quote]

This doesn't make sense. Let's say that there was a player who always lurked regardless of their allignment. Why would lurking in a game where their allignment was unknown mean that they were scum?

[Thesp]

Deadline is a week away Thesp. There is still plenty of time to push your number one.

So we should wait a week? I've been pushing for two weeks and haven't gotten any traction. I'd rather push for our claims/lynch now, and I don't want to be pushed up against the deadline doing it.

[Ythill]

After seeing Kitten's comment, I realized I found her scummier, and realized I was wrong about Leaf. Not once did I suspect both of them.

This was because I wasn't going to just let Leaf off the hook because I found a new suspect.

???

Oh. Sorry. The first quote should be "...and realized I might be wrong about Leaf."

...But I would have still wanted him to defend against the accusation even if I thought he was the towniest person in the game. There's no reason for him not to.

What should "not once did I suspect both of them" have been?

[Leafsnail]

All quotes are from wick.

Why?

What?

I hope you're joking. That'd make you the funniest person here.

...But I would have still wanted him to defend against the accusation even if I thought he was the towniest person in the game. There's no reason for him not to.

If you thought I was so townie... why push it so much?

1: What is this in reference too?

Where did she defend herself to your satisfaction?

2: I didn't chase her to L-1. I was one of the first few people to vote her. Rolling Eyes

But you stayed on her right until L-1.

This doesn't make sense. Let's say that there was a player who always lurked regardless of their allignment. Why would lurking in a game where their allignment was unknown mean that they were scum?

You were using it as a defence. Not as a null.

[Oman]

Oh Ythill I thought I had, thats my mistake.

Of course, with 4 votes on him I'd expect more of a climb were he town (due to mafia trying to push the lynch) I know that is pretty archaic reasoning, and has fallen out of favour, but I find it moderately accurate.

Unvote Vote Wicked

Claim please.

[Ythill]

Heh. My other game is over so this one gets my full attention for now. Replaced into that one as VT in LYLO, won before endgame.

Anyway, seconding the claim request...

[Fate]

This close to a deadline, no sense in my vote being all lonesome. I will gladly move it back to Fate if there's a possibility of a wagon there.

Unvote: Fate, Vote: pman5595.

So we should wait a week? I've been pushing for two weeks and haven't gotten any traction. I'd rather push for our claims/lynch now, and I don't want to be pushed up against the deadline doing it.

The last two posts from Thesp make me *raise eyebrows*

I think your vote on me was back when Budja was still around. Either way, it didn't seem like it was going to stick, so you switched wagons.

Why didn't you put Wicked at L-1? Especially if you want to push for claims? As I see it right now, the only reason you voted pman was because he had more votes on him.

Unvote

Vote: Thesp

I haven't liked your posts all game, and this seals it for me.

*Further actions pending Wicked's claim*

[Fate]

Edit to clarify:

Why didn't you put Wicked at L-1? Especially if you want to push for claims?

As I see it right now, the only reason you voted pman was because he had more votes on him.

Should read as two different thoughts. The first parts are questions, the second part is "the reason you voted pman was baseless" NOT "the reason you voted pman instead of wicked is because pman had more votes" In which the latter is false.

Sorry to confuse.

@Ythil: IIoA=Information instead of analysis. Maybe I have the acronym wrong.

[Ythill]

Fate, once Wick claims, I'd be open to hearing more detail about what's bothering you about Thesp. He doesn't seem scummy to me but a fair number of people are twigging on him.

IIoA=Information instead of analysis. Maybe I have the acronym wrong.

Meh. It's IoA (Information over Analysis) on the wiki. Leaf said the same thing about me, but it's null. In my first games I posted a lot of analysis but my posts were too long and bad for sig:noise so I trimmed them down across my meta. If you've got an honest question about how I reached a conclusion (rather than circle-questioning like Leaf), I'll answer it.

[Thesp]

This close to a deadline, no sense in my vote being all lonesome. I will gladly move it back to Fate if there's a possibility of a wagon there.

Unvote: Fate, Vote: pman5595.

So we should wait a week? I've been pushing for two weeks and haven't gotten any traction. I'd rather push for our claims/lynch now, and I don't want to be pushed up against the deadline doing it.

The last two posts from Thesp make me *raise eyebrows*

I think your vote on me was back when Budja was still around. Either way, it didn't seem like it was going to stick, so you switched wagons.

Why didn't you put Wicked at L-1? Especially if you want to push for claims? As I see it right now, the only reason you voted pman was because he had more votes on him.

Nice deflection of the pman5595 wagon. I'm quite happy with my vote on either of pman5595 or Fate.

I'm not a fan of the wickedestjr wagon, but I don't want to see stalling for a claim with him now at L-1.

[Fate]

Nice deflection of the pman5595 wagon. I'm quite happy with my vote on either of pman5595 or Fate.

So are you suggesting I voted pman, and I am now deflecting off him? How about you respond to the other points in my post?

[Thesp]

Nice deflection of the pman5595 wagon. I'm quite happy with my vote on either of pman5595 or Fate.

So are you suggesting I voted pman, and I am now deflecting off him? How about you respond to the other points in my post?

Yes. He emerged as a conceivably viable second candidate, and you move off him to a single-vote, leaving Wickedestjr as the only person with more than 2 votes. Yeah, that's a significant deflection.

Also, there were other points in your post? What is it you want me to address? Why I didn't vote for Wickedestjr? (I thought I made it clear that there were others I preferred to lynch. Did I not convey this?)

[Fate]

I'm going to wait on Mori for awhile but, if the Wick wagon grows, y'all can expect me to jump on.

If it's between either of them, I'd vote on Wickedestjr, but I'm not convinced it needs to be between the two of them.

Mod, can we get a prod on Budja?

We seem unwilling to give attention to people who aren't posting.

^No, I guess you didn't make it clear, because in this post it seems like you are willing to vote Wicked. Add that to the fact that the "point" I brought up that you should've explained was your dissonance between "close to the deadline, let's push for claims lynch." and not voting Wicked, who you said before you're willing to vote for, to put him at L-1.

[Oman]

I made a banner for wicked but I lost it.

It said "Come play with us, we're not that mean!"