Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[don_johnson]

ani: way to go for the sun optimal lynch in lylo. what has manho done for town? if you believe in 1 neighbor scum then you should be lynching the last remaining neighbor. according to your thought process he would be 100% scum.

if there is any buddying between me and juls it is because we have some history on the site.

I thought the votes for me from you and particularly Juls were partly at least based on that. Was I wrong?

you implied that the idea of one neighbor being scum was placed on the backburner and then resurrected with recent votes. that is a huge assumption which you failed to backup with fact. this new statement is blatant weaseling. please show where the "one neighbor scum" theory fell to the weighside and where it was ressurected. that was what you said. please show proof of that. if i remember correctly, a large part of the reason SB was lynched was because of the "one neighbor scum" theory as well. if that's the case then the accusation you are making is entirely false.

[animorpherv1]

[quote="dj']ani: way to go for the sun optimal lynch in lylo. what has manho done for town? if you believe in 1 neighbor scum then you should be lynching the last remaining neighbor. according to your thought process he would be 100% scum.

if there is any buddying between me and juls it is because we have some history on the site. [/quote]

Yes, I agree with that, but you've done little to no scum hunting, which is a bigger tell then someone is ythe last Neighbour.
Also, I'd like to mention manho's vote on me AFTER I mentioned that manho is possable-scum for not sucmhunting.

[Fishythefish]

you implied that the idea of one neighbor being scum was placed on the backburner and then resurrected with recent votes. that is a huge assumption which you failed to backup with fact. this new statement is blatant weaseling. please show where the "one neighbor scum" theory fell to the weighside and where it was ressurected. that was what you said. please show proof of that. if i remember correctly, a large part of the reason SB was lynched was because of the "one neighbor scum" theory as well. if that's the case then the accusation you are making is entirely false.

So, here's what I recall:
When neighbour first claimed/after DRK lynched, most people thought that a neighbourhood pointed to either none or one scum in it, and weakly to the second of these.

For a long period after this - including SB's lynch - this was barely mentioned, with the exception of ani.

Now, you and Juls vote for me - Juls at least seems to be going by that logic, with "fishy must be scum now". I kind of assumed you were too because it was such an out-of-the-blue vote, but you haven't actually given any reasons.

I may be wrong about some of that. It currently takes me a few minutes to load an MS page, and I don't have time to reread this game. Can you give me any quotes from around SB's lynch that show that anyone apart from ani was going with the one-neighbour-is-scum theory?

Reading you today, it is totally clear that you are interested only in my lynch. Why this sudden certainty?

So, it looks like there's no 3-man scum team.

Given yesterday, I'm not seeing DJ and ani as scum together.

nice omgus.

What on earth did you mean by this? Did you think "oh, I voted for him, he said something, must have been omgus"? Because I didn't actually attack you at all here.

[manho]

fish/ani/juls

well done guys.

vote: fish

i think you mean you also find juls scummy here. what's the reason behind?

[farside22]

okay I started with morph because I saw DJ point out that morph had a contradiction which is correct. I found here the contradictions from morph

At this point, not sure:
manho/DRK (due to lack of posts)
SB/Fishy (like I said, 1 probably is scum)

Scum list:
don_johnson (because he's scum (or any derivative) is never an answer, unless your on page 1 of the RVS, some posts seem to not be like town would say)

Morph: if DJ is scum who do you think is his scum partner?

Like I've said before, I wouldn't be suprised if there was a neighbour - scum, and Fishy seems more helpful right now, so SB, I guess. But with manho's lack of participation, I wouldn't be suprised if he was to.

vote:DJ

Acting by far more scummy then Fishy, who has actually helped to try to find scum, where as DJ is just looking it. I do belive in 1 neighbour scum, but IMO, DJ hasnb't ,done anything to help the town.

[quote="dj']ani: way to go for the sun optimal lynch in lylo. what has manho done for town? if you believe in 1 neighbor scum then you should be lynching the last remaining neighbor. according to your thought process he would be 100% scum.

if there is any buddying between me and juls it is because we have some history on the site.

Yes, I agree with that, but you've done little to no scum hunting, which is a bigger tell then someone is ythe last Neighbour.
Also, I'd like to mention manho's vote on me AFTER I mentioned that manho is possable-scum for not sucmhunting.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Basically morph says one of the 2 neighbors is probably scum but after SB's lynch backtracks a bit and attacks DJ for not scum hunting saying it's a bigger tell then fishy.
This looks very scummy in retrospect.

Morph do you think fishy is not scum now or that a neighbor isn't scum? Why?

Next up will be the juls/Dj stuff I noticed in the game.

[farside22]

DJ: if there is any buddying between me and juls it is because we have some history on the site.

I don't care if you have history with a player. Buddying up isn't something I feel is town as people are mislead. Why buddy up to a player who's allignment is unknow to you?
Why do you think juls scum now over manho?

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: animorph

the only thing scummy about juls is the lurkiness of her play.

fishy is most likely scum due to the "one neighbor as scum" theory, i just think he's using that as an excuse to make others look bad. it was something he inferred from juls and my votes, but wasn't really stated, and imo it was never really on the backburner, nor was it "less likely" than the town neighborhood idea. now he doesn't have time to "reread" the thread. that's my bit. ani thinks i'm scum because of my disinterested approach, but hasn't attacked anyone else on this. fish may have given the appearance of scumhunting before, but now, he back's off and gets no flak from ani? i think they are scum partners.

in regards to the buddying: i didn't intentionally "buddy" juls, nor do i feel she "buddied" me. what i was saying is that

if someone thinks they saw some buddying between us

it is most likely because of our history. farside, if you are interested in producing your "notes" i am all ears as i am not 100% sure of town juls, but i think it is our best interest to lynch animorph today. the discrepancy in his logic is telling, and i think he has given up his partner in fishy.

[farside22]

Why the switch from fishy to morph?

I will have notes on this more tomorrow. I'm sorry I got swept away with a few other games I needed to catch up in.

[animorpherv1]

Morph do you think fishy is not scum now or that a neighbor isn't scum? Why?

Oh, he probably is. I think DJ is scum more though.

And DJ, scumhunting + lurkering is better then more posting but not many reasons.

[don_johnson]

Why the switch from fishy to morph?

why not? i think they are both scum and i am willing to lynch either of them.

you see:

Morph do you think fishy is not scum now or that a neighbor isn't scum? Why?

is a good question.

this:

Oh, he probably is. I think DJ is scum more though.

is an incomplete answer. there's no answer to the "why?" part of the question. there is also no real stance on fishy here. if you think fishy is scum(and your earlier logic just about guarantees it) what is the purpose of lynching me first? who else do you think i am paired with and why?

also, i assume that you(ani) are referring to juls as "scumhunting +lurkering". please expound as to when and where juls has been "scumhunting" as opposed to "lurkering".

farside: ani's inability to reconcile his logic has me more sure he is scum. i don't currently see him partnered with anyone but fishy. i could be wrong, i guess, but fish needs to speak up and explain their "town read" on ani. otherwise, i think i have them both pegged.

[zoraster]

animorpherv1 the Town Redirector was killed

It is no longer possible for the town to win (before, technically ani could have redirected a kill onto a mafia member).

Therefore, your winners are:

farside22

, the role blocker (recharges every 10 days, has a duration of 2 days)

fishythefish

, the Mafia Bus Driver Neighbor (recharges every 14 days, has a duration of 2 days)

Juls

, the Mafia Tracker (recharges every 7 days, duration of 3 days)

Congratulations to the winners!

The town power roles still alive at the end of the game were as follows:
Manho the Tracker.

---
My thoughts:
This game wasn't optimal for a number of reasons.
1. While I think many started excited, there were a significant number of lurkers that had to be gotten rid of. Given the extremely time sensitive manner of the game, this threw off at least one day and possibly more. I knew this was a risk, but I thought it was avoidable. I may have been wrong.
2. The power roles may not have been adjusted correctly, which is hardly a surprise. There was only one time-sensitive result the entire game. I think the solution would have been to have recharge times quicker and adjust the durations down (even making them hours rather than days).
3. Even though my timing of 7 days for lynches and 10 days for mafia gave the town one extra lynch than they otherwise would have, I think this was tilted in favor of scum. It's tough to only have 7 days, especially in a game that isn't really active.
4. The server's technical troubles probably affected this game more than any other. Given that this game is SO dependent on timing and it was SO frustrating to post for a long time, it's hard to blame anyone for letting the game languish. I know my own played games have suffered.

So for those watching, I'm not sure this is an entirely dead concept... I think with work and the right people it could be viable. But I'm definitely not ready to call this a "good" design yet. Personally, I think this game might be most effective as a Marathon Day game.

So I want to thank each and every person who played for participating. It was a fun experiment, and it had some memorable moments (Fishy's JOAT role-claim was simply brilliant. If the game were better and it weren't such a slaughter in favor of mafia, I might nominate him for best role claim. I won't now, but I'd be happy to second anyone who does so).

So thanks, and I'm sorry that it didn't turn out to be as spectacular as many hoped. Still, I think many had fun playing, but I won't try and put words into people's mouths.

[Juls]

For the record...my lurkiness was completely due to my busy schedule since school has started back. I am contemplating taking a break from mafia until this semester is over.

Good game scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

The game design was fun, but we had too many lurkers. This game would be interesting to play with only players who could commit to at least a certain activity level. Meh, whatever.

It was fun while I was still alive. I'd sign up if again if a similar game were to be run.

I'm fine with the Neighbor QT being posted if Fishy and Annachie are.

Anyway, good game all. Good game especially to the scum.

[Annachie]

and thus my problem reveals in all it's glory.

Scum in this game driving towards a lynch and no night break, scum in a rapid 5 player game with Eli that had just started. One optimal strategy for Vengence mafia was for me to dribble scum because if Elli got lynched in that game scum looses. But anyone looking at that game with the both of us in it might have assumed that that was the one Elli was talking about and voted me here. Let alone a flip here affecting that game. If there had been a night break I would have had time to ask people for advice, and in the end I over reacted. Oh well.

Specifics.
1: I suspect that next time the mod needs to be a bit more careful selecting players to make sure that they are high activity type people.
2: I don't think the balance was that bad but I had a lot of time thinking of when I'd use the bussing power, and I didn't get many good answers. I bet that Ani might have felt the same about the re-direct.
3: Not sure. I was just about to advise the other scum to hold off on the kill to try and suck information. I think the kill could have been used tactically to mess with the votes and really screw the town over.
Personally I think town lost to being manipulated too well and people not paying full attention/getting lost.
4: I noticed that watching.

Zor, I was so disapointed that I felt I had to replace out. This game interesed me most of all and is the one I regret leaving. I'd happily play again, though maybe with a couple more players and perhaps a gun smith or a JoaT
Maybe not so much "twilight time" at the start of the game either.


DRK, I assumed that the various QT's would be pulic after the game and have no problem with it.

Fishy, Juls, Farside. I lost count of the number of times I screamed at you while reading the scum QT.

Also, after being called 'her' a few too many times in other games, despite the male gender sign and claiming to have fathered multiple children, I've stopped playing using the Annachie ID. Using something else now.

[farside22]

Sorry Anna it's the name that had me saying she.
Also I think I giggled 4 times this game with the number of people saying I was town.
Poor SB I was so not nice this game and morph what can I say that was just completely out of left field voting for DJ over fishy.

Some of my procrastination this last day was knowing the game was about to end.
I'm shocked morph didn't use his ability the the 10 day mafia kill talk.

DJ I swore was sk or cult he was playing so poorly I wanted to ask if he joined the scum team and I missed it.

Town should have so lynched fishy over SB with the claimed gunsmith was killed.

[Ellibereth]

GG scum...completely misread farside and Juls, I didn't think scum would jump on the last-second wagon switch on their buddy.

What happened with Ann was as follows: In mafia with Quickness he mentioned he thought I was town due to me following my town meta. All the games that were available to meta me with at the time were either ones where my flip wasn't revealed yet or I was playing in a different manner.
The only game I actually played in a similar fashion was here, hence to know my town meta he had to know my alignment here and be scum.

[Flareonage]

told you a neighbor was scum

[Annachie]

But I have seen games where three neighbours were all town. Hell I was one of them. Would have sworn that one of the neighbours in that game was scum but no.

[manho]

i've tracked 2 scums...

i tracked Juls, and she was targetting DJ. and the following it my deduction:
Juls won't be a town tracker as I'm the tracker.
she won't be a town doctor as I really don't see the reason scum will kill him.
she won't be a town watcher as I don't see him being targetted at all.
she won't be a town jailkeeper or gun-smith as we have a claimed one.
so, i narrow the possible choice to scum-framer and scum-doctor.

i was looking for a right timing to ask for Juls's claim, better just after a scum kill. but the V/LA from Juls screw the timing.

i tracked farside lately, from 31/1 to 2/2.
@mod, who made the last kill and did I track it?

[manho]

really didn't think fishy is scum. the claim is so great.

[farside22]

really didn't think fishy is scum. the claim is so great.

Which reminds me. Eli claimed way too early and should have waited for fishy to claim first before explaing himself.

[Ellibereth]

really didn't think fishy is scum. the claim is so great.

Which reminds me. Eli claimed way too early and should have waited for fishy to claim first before explaing himself.

I know...I thought it was over the second Fishy chose "other" though. Meh, my mistake.

[Pomegranate]

Hi guys... sorry we replaced out. The hydra just didn't work well, both of us assuming that the other one would get to it... by the end, Plum had probably made about 3 posts maximum, and I had made the rest of them, which were shorter. In the end it was me who made the division to replace out- I knew that we had both fallen to far behind the game, even with a cool role. Thanks Ani for replacing us. I would've enjoyed playing, but I just new it wouldn't happen... so thanks!

[Snow_Bunny]

Good game scum.

Interesting mechanic, but it was in reality a bit troublesome for town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Neighbor QT, for anyone who's interested. Can someone post the scum QT, if no one minds?