SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata (Game over!)

[sykedoc]

I've actually decided to narrow it down for you all.

On the subject of the way I handle questions and read requests:

Vote: skyedoc.

A variety of reasons, the majority of which I've made pretty clear. I think the most likely scumpair is skyedoc/AP, although I get scummy vibes from everybody but EA and no read at all on SensFan.

skyedoc replaced for a scummy player, didn't play a good game, lurks frequently,

has avoided questions all game like the plague

, and I'm not sure if my role is paranoid or insane, but I did get a guilty on him.

I was mason in this game. Town sided.

I found MF more odd on my reread, but

skye's frantic posting and threatening after he claimed did scream scum to me as well

. I mentioned in my analysis I found both of them scummy, and I think a lynch of either of them would be a good strategy today. At deadline, I'd be willing to lynch either of them but I'll have a reread and see who I find more likely to be scum out of the two.

Same game. Town sided mason.

Of the two, right now I'm more confident with skye being scum, particularly because of his most recent post and the fr

antic and agressive nature of his posts

when he claimed so I'm going to unvote vote: skyedoc

Town.

On the subject of AtE/claimthreat: Its a nulltell.

Neither of us will come up scum and if you need to lynch me to see that go the hell ahead.

Same game again. TSM.

@ Lowell: It wasn't a meaningless vote. Your vote was meaningless which caused suspicion and

if you even bothered to read my post

, i just said that i had read further into it and after deciding you were suspicious enough i have decided to vote for you.

Similar to my responses to starbuck? Townie.

Bionic, At the risk of sounding more scummy i'm going to say this.

I really don't care at this point if you lynch me, but realize that you will be lynched the next day when you find that im town.

I tend to commonly get accused for trivial things, so really go ahead and kill me because out of the few games i've played on this forum it's happened in all. Kinda ruins the fun for me. So go ahead kill me idc.

Sound Familiar? Town.

It wasn't an OMGUS vote. I don't just OMGUS people.

He's been leading a crusade against me for about three pages based on a flat out retarded question which shouldn't have REQUIRED an answer.

If that isn't somewhat fishy, i dont know what the hell is.

Town.

On the subject of bending to pressure: Nulltell

OK. Rereading and I am going to vote sykedoc. A

lot of action has come around since some light prodding of syke, leading me to think we may be on to something.

This is why I like getting discussion going. Attitudes changed real quick as soon as somebody felt like they were being figured out and some people went from friendly to not very friendly in a hurry.

Townie.

Make your Meta is lame statements all you want, but If you use my meta against me, I have just as much right to show you that I'm innocent in the same fashion.

I don't require you to change your votes but I ask you to take this into account if you're also going to take Anon's case into account.

[Rifka Viveka]

So since saintkerrigans slot is due to be replaced, making any case would be futile right now. But whoever replaces in, im not just forgetting about this i expect some protown things out of this slot

Unvote

My other suspect sykedoc, is doing what made my initially suspicious, which is a whole bunch of AtE. Asking to be lynched, the ''you will be sorry for lynching me'' defence used earlier'' and imo a lack of any pro town activity

vote: sykedoc

also your most recent post is of little interest to me sykedoc, your actions are independently scummy in THIS game.

[sykedoc]

So since saintkerrigans slot is due to be replaced, making any case would be futile right now. But whoever replaces in, im not just forgetting about this i expect some protown things out of this slot

Unvote

My other suspect sykedoc, is doing what made my initially suspicious, which is a whole bunch of AtE. Asking to be lynched, the ''you will be sorry for lynching me'' defence used earlier'' and imo a lack of any pro town activity

vote: sykedoc

also your most recent post is of little interest to me sykedoc, your actions are independently scummy in THIS game.

Voting me based on a nulltell? At least Starbuck's post has some things in it.
This is opportunistic.

[wolframnhart]

@sykedoc

If we pull down your pants and yell "SCUM!!" you should see a doctor about that.

Seriously though you post all three scenarios you see, with the outcome being that no matter what you are scum, saying we might as well lynch you, I can't decide if this is more defeated townie giving up or defeated scum giving up.

I see Amish's reasoning behind his vote, and perhaps he sees it clearer then i do.

for no i will

unvote

think this through.


Also Amish i just saw your question about who i think is scummy. I thought Doc is, but I haven't seen anything new that makes me think I was right about that. I definitely thought datadanne is, but with the replace out due to WoW for her I will have to see how Rifka plays to fully decide on that.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

DocPotter (8): LlamaFlufft, kyle99, Nul, Fishythefish, SaintKerrigan, Kairyuu, Parama, sykedoc
kyle99 (1): DocPotter
Parama (1): Sanhora
sykedoc (7): Anon, DeathNote, Starbuck, MafiaSSK, RayFrost, Amished, Rifka Viveka
Not voting (8): Bogre, My Milked Eek, xRECKONERx, animorpherv1, tubby216, RichardGHP, Pomegranate, wolframnhar

With

25

players alive, it takes

13

votes to lynch.

Mod: I need to replace out. School's becoming a larger factor, and I don't have time for this game. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Looking for replacements for you and Sanhora (who's picked up his or her prod, but hasn't posted in thread).

EBWOP: for some reason my reply ended up in the quote right above
"is not true. So?"

Mod: Can you fix it? TY

Done.

[Amished]

/me expresses my dream to have a dayvig for Wolf.

Now I just need to convince SCoug...

[sykedoc]

Third Request:

MafiaSSK, please give your reason for voting for me, as you have not even hinted at it and you seem to disappear for long periods of time while posting very little.

[Pomegranate]

/me expresses my dream to have a dayvig for Wolf.

^^^ This.

--

With the last page, and the response to my post about him, definitely

Vote: Sykedoc

.

--

On an irrelevant note, Rifka Viveka, is there anything that your username comes from? It interests me.

[Parama]

Meta-based defense is lame.
Meta-built case is also lame.
Meta-based defense to a meta-built case = contradiction. One of the two has to be wrong by definition. At this point, I don't know which.
But seeing as sykedoc caused this contradiction by forming the meta defense, his reaction is what makes me want to lynch him more than anything. He overreacted early on to having 5 votes all based on a meta case, not a townie thing to do at all.
However, DocPotter's vote on kyle doesn't make sense IMO. If Doc was scum I would think he'd find a good reason to jump on the syke wagon. But then again... syke was pretty reluctant to vote DocPotter. And he only switched after the Doc wagon lost momentum and was head towards him. I think we may have found a scumteam here. Syke's bussing his partner to save himself, whereas Doc doesn't want to vote his partner in fear of being called out for bussing. But if I look at it that way, then either decision would've gotten them called out... kinda WIFOM. But if any response would make them look scummy, that could mean they're both scum. Eh. There's some sort of logical fallacy in my argument it seems that's causing this problem. Can't be bothered to find it right now. If anyone figures out the problem I'd be glad to fix it and see what impact it has on this theory I've set up.
For now, my vote stays. If both are scum, then I don't have any reason to switch from one to the other.

[Pomegranate]

The case on Syke is not meta.

[StrangerCoug]

With the last page, and the response to my post about him, definitely

Vote: Sykedoc

.

This vote doesn't count. Unvote Nul first.

Never mind—you did already. I was looking at something out of date.

[Parama]

The case on Syke is not meta.

It's where the case started. I understand that the case on syke isn't purely meta anymore, heck, how could it be?, but the initial case started with meta arguments.

[sykedoc]

The case on Syke is not meta.

It's where the case started. I understand that the case on syke isn't purely meta anymore, heck, how could it be?, but the initial case started with meta arguments.

^this

This is why I feel bringing up meta is a fair step at this point.

At this point I've exhausted my defensive options. So, unless there's a change, turning point, or question, I can't do much more right now.

[Pomegranate]

It started with meta, but many of the people on the wagon aren't voting based on any meta. I know I'm not. Starbuck isn't either. I don't know specifically about any other players. I think the only one still hanging onto the meta argument is DocPotter.

[Parama]

The case on Syke is not meta.

It's where the case started. I understand that the case on syke isn't purely meta anymore, heck, how could it be?, but the initial case started with meta arguments.

^this

This is why I feel bringing up meta is a fair step at this point.

At this point I've exhausted my defensive options. So, unless there's a change, turning point, or question, I can't do much more right now.

Nope, using meta as a defense to a meta built case just makes you look stupid. If you read my earlier post, there is no reason to use meta to defend a meta built case, especially if you're stuck on the meta arguments while the case has moved on to reactions and scumtells. Urgh. This post is really making me want to change my vote.

[Parama]

EBWOP:

It started with meta, but many of the people on the wagon aren't voting based on any meta. I know I'm not. Starbuck isn't either. I don't know specifically about any other players. I think the only one still hanging onto the meta argument is DocPotter.

Yeah, I know. Syke also seems to be caught up in the meta part of his case and is ignoring why people are now voting him, his reactions to the initial case and reactions to the DP wagon.
And DP hanging on to the meta arguments means he doesn't care about current arguments, which would mean he probably finds them invalid, which makes no sense. More reason to believe in a syke-DP scumteam.

[sykedoc]

It started with meta, but many of the people on the wagon aren't voting based on any meta. I know I'm not. Starbuck isn't either. I don't know specifically about any other players. I think the only one still hanging onto the meta argument is DocPotter.

Have you considered that it explains some of the things blatantly labeled as scumtells?

I feel these are nulltells, and this is just a point to prove as any. How are they scumtells if they've been done in similar situations as town several times?

I think the general view of this is an unfair one in that case. Tells vary person to person, which is exactly why I don't vote without a good reason as I said initially. I don't vote for someone because they AtE, or they defend themselves overly. These are normal reactions to someone who isn't good at staying cool under pressure. Not everyone falls into the same mold.

[sykedoc]

Look at the cases presented:

Pom's recent argument: I folded under pressure and it makes me look scummy

Rifka: I AtE'd and it makes me look scummy.

RF: Same as Pom

Ami: Sounds like an AtE case as well as well as the way I reacted

Starbuck: all of the above plus a softclaim threat

Anon: meta + all of above

Now take a look at the post I made again.
I ask you for the billionth time:

If I've done this several times under similar circumstances, why is this still considered a scumtell? I have physically given evidence that its null.

Examples of things that aren't scumtells that make cases:
SSK's vote for me following an utter lack of any contributory posting. There was no reason attached to the vote and he still hasn't responded.

^ This isn't based on a tell that could be a nulltell.

This is Rule 1 of scumtells guys...
"An action is a scumtell if and only if a specific player is more likely to take it as scum."

If i've done that in 1 game as scum and several as town, which is more likely?

"I'm not completely discounting behavioral scumhunting, of course - it can certainly be useful in certain situations, but it's by far the less efficient method imo. It seems to derive almost completely from intuition, which is very different from player to player, and it's therefore extremely difficult to convince the town with a behavioral case. There's also always the chance you're just wrong about the guy, especially if you've never played with him before. Psychological guidelines simply don't apply to everyone. I think it's seldom easy for a town to correctly lynch scum on purely behavioral reasoning, probably almost only happens in the case of serious blunders. "

This should at least turn some heads on the way I'm currently being attacked.

[RayFrost]

ITT syke misrepesents what I've said is my case.

I've said you had AtE, that you folded under pressure, that you gave an assumption of every possibility as an excuse to give up, that you were trying to maintain the docpotter-wagon while not doing anything actively for it in order to avoid suspicion, that you didn't have conviction in your case towards anon because you dropped it when under pressure from just one person....

[Amished]

.... none of my case was AtE, but does consider behavior. I'm a "natural" scumhunter as I don't really look at votecounts, or anything like that but I do see stuff that doesn't make sense coming from a town perspective. In your {syke's} case: I believe your reaction to come from scum as you don't feel that anything you can do in this game will redeem yourself. If you were town, you'd have the belief (especially with... 3? votes on you at the time?) that you can prove your townieness by being yourself. But instead you feel that no matter what you do you're going to look scum. I view this to be a scum mindset as you know you're guilty and you can't redeem yourself through standard means.

[RayFrost]

^5 Amished.

Syke, lerntooreed

[Pomegranate]

<3 Amished

[Amished]

<3 Yuna? Looks like her, but I <3 you more, Pom

[sykedoc]

.... none of my case was AtE, but does consider behavior. I'm a "natural" scumhunter as I don't really look at votecounts, or anything like that but I do see stuff that doesn't make sense coming from a town perspective. In your {syke's} case: I believe your reaction to come from scum as you don't feel that anything you can do in this game will redeem yourself. If you were town, you'd have the belief (especially with... 3? votes on you at the time?) that you can prove your townieness by being yourself. But instead you feel that no matter what you do you're going to look scum. I view this to be a scum mindset as you know you're guilty and you can't redeem yourself through standard means.

Its the impression that I got from your post where you voted for me. I didn't intend to misrepresent you. The point I've been trying to prove is that its a common fallacy on my part. I freak out at little things, its just who I am. Also its very easy to get the mindset that no matter what you do you're scum when everything is seen as scummy coming from other people.

[Pomegranate]

<3 Yuna? Looks like her, but I <3 you more, Pom

Yeah, it's Yuna.