899 FABLES- THE GRIMMAFIA GAME - The End. Mod Sucks.

[Ellibereth]

Am I the only one who thinks San was clearing Albert with his two posts?

[Sanhora]

Am I the only one who thinks San was clearing Albert with his two posts?

Well, if you'd ask me, I think Sanhora didn't clear ABR, nu-uh If you'd ask me, I'd say that Sanhora and ABR have a history together, yep-yep.
I don't see how you thought Sanhora was clearing ABR, so I hope you'll elaborate.

[Sanhora]

Bleh, I need a break from this game. I at least got to page 12, but everything got fuzzy during the time/before I read the Mordy-discussion. So I'll start this weekend around page 10.
But anyway, if you're voting ABR for replacing out with the reason we know, you can stop. This isn't determined by allignment, but by personality. As somebody who has seen ABR in more games than Iece has, I'm positive on this.

So let's go for a good wagon.
Support Sanhora,

(Unvote?); Vote MonkeyMan576

[Mina]

DoS, you told us you'd give us thoughts yesterday. What happened to them?

So guys, Sanhora is pretty much confirmed town now.

This is a terrible stance to take.
Scum play to their win condition until days after postmortem.

Sanhora actually hasn't SAID anything yet.
Your stance on such events is shifty, at best.

ABR hammered. Sanhora, thinking that he was dead, posted along the lines of "Nice going, idiot, I could have proven my role!" It's a genuine-looking reaction that heavily implies Sanhora is town. I actually feel guilty for bringing up ABR's screw-up (to be honest, I wasn't being entirely serious about disallowing the vote), simply because Sanhora's reaction to the "hammer" gave us meta information. At least San apparently would have cleared himself.

If you still have doubts, we can make Sanhora prove his apparently confirmable role. Another day.

Also, you used the word "shifty." Are you implying that you don't just disagree with me, but that you think I have scum motivations for concluding that Sanhora was town? Can you explain this more?

------

This will be interesting. Everyone has been tunnel-visioned on the same player all day. Now that he's been cleared and virtually everyone's on the table as a lynch option, what will happen?

ABR hammering as a trigger-happy townie frustrated by a stagnating day? I can buy it. ABR replacing out out of the game because his hammer didn't count and the leading suspect suddenly became cleared? Much, MUCH scummier. I don't know ABR as well as other players do, but I'm not ready to remove my vote yet. Too bad we can't get a defence from ABR himself.

Meh, i think kpaca/sanhora should have been lynched there. whatevs.
Agree with the late Albert about dl extensions.
Unvote, Vote: GK

Why are you voting Gerhard Krause? This is the only thing you've said about him all game:

Don't think the rhymers are fakers. Having trouble reading them though, will look back later.

Why not RayFrost, or someone you actually suspect?

Response to Jazzmyn coming up later. I have to go to work.

[SocioPath]

ABR hammered. Sanhora, thinking that he was dead, posted along the lines of "Nice going, idiot, I could have proven my role!" It's a genuine-looking reaction that heavily implies Sanhora is town.

No, its not.
There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.
Especially when they don't actually say anything.

simply because Sanhora's reaction to the "hammer" gave us meta information.

No, it didn't.

At least San apparently would have cleared himself.

Continue to believe that at your own peril.

Also, you used the word "shifty." Are you implying that you don't just disagree with me, but that you think I have scum motivations for concluding that Sanhora was town? Can you explain this more?

Its certainly not a town motivation to go 'oh he is cleared, moving on' without him actually saying anything. You are jumping all over his defense before even he has anything to say for himself.

ABR replacing out out of the game because his hammer didn't count and the leading suspect suddenly became cleared?

This. Did. Not. Happen. At. All.
Read the flow of events.
Now read them again.
Only AFTER the mod came in and said the vote didn't count, would it have made sense that ABR was asked to have been replaced.
TWO posts happened after that fact.
You saying Sanhora was 'pretty much confirmed town' and my post in response to that one.

During the Sanhora talking, ABR wouldn't have been asked to be replaced.
Because its not like he went 'OH I HAMMERED A GUY THAT SAYS HE CAN CONFIRM HIMSELF WHILE TALKING IN TWILIGHT, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'

Then the mod said it wouldn't count.
Then your post, then mine.
Because its not like he went 'OH MINA SAID HE IS PRETTY MUCH CONFIRMED TOWN NOW, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'
Consider the fact that he could have CHANGED HIS VOTE AT ANY TIME IN ORDER TO SUCCESSFULLY HAMMER SANHORA.

And its certainly not he looked at MY post in response to yours and was like 'WELL HE MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY BE CONFIRMED TOWN, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'


And as far as anyone 'confirming' ANYthing, first and foremost:
REMEMBER THIS ISN'T A STRAIGHT FORWARD GAME.
ANYTHING "CONFIRMABLE" IS MOST LIKELY BASTARDLY.

[Iecerint]

SP, it looks like you're attacking Mina for clearing Sanford and being relatively sure about ABRscum. I certainly understand the former, but I don't understand the latter. Why are you voting ABR? Is it different from the reason that Mina is doing so?

[Ellibereth]

Last sentence of 387 made me think you were clearing Albert somehow after reading 389. Dunno.
I disapprove of Albert wagon.

[Mina]

ABR hammered. Sanhora, thinking that he was dead, posted along the lines of "Nice going, idiot, I could have proven my role!" It's a genuine-looking reaction that heavily implies Sanhora is town.

No, its not.
There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.
Especially when they don't actually say anything.

He didn't actually say anything? Um...what the hell are you talking about?

Here are two of Sanhora's posts, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE HAMMER!

Great

My role could be proven. Seems I'll die sooner than the rose

Granded, I was told that there is only one more beautiful than me. Killed right now, it can tell somebody else how beautiful that person is.

My dramatic last words

ABR is just jealous >.>

Not MM. I've information on two players. One will stay secret. My flip will show why.
The other has been revealed in some way with my previous post. But I suck at such things >.< Though that player should be able to tell you (I hope ).
If I had more, I'd have written it down in my previous post.

Emphasis on "could be proven," "Seems I'll die sooner than the rose," "dramatic last words" and "my flip will show why." Pretty obviously an "I was lynched" reaction. He acted very confident that he'd flip town and other players would react in a certain way to the information from his flip. What's the point of such an elaborate charade if we'll all know he's scum in two minutes, anyway?

Yeah, every once in a blue moon, scum string things along just for fun after a hammer, rather than post "Bah, go scum!" I didn't get that impression from Sanhora's posts because of how many supporting details there were. But fine, calling him "confirmed town" was a little hasty. Do you agree that his reaction was a strong towntell? Enough so that he's no longer a good option for a lynch today?

Also, you used the word "shifty." Are you implying that you don't just disagree with me, but that you think I have scum motivations for concluding that Sanhora was town? Can you explain this more?

Its certainly not a town motivation to go 'oh he is cleared, moving on' without him actually saying anything. You are jumping all over his defense before even he has anything to say for himself.

I'm starting to doubt that you believe what you're arguing. What useful information could we have got from his reaction to Grimmy sparing him? "Yay, I'm alive"? "Guess what, guys, I actually

am

scum"? It's not like I defended him from a

case

before he responded. I was just stating the obvious--that Sanhora looked a hell of a lot better now. I'd argue that scum motivation would be to try to keep suspicion of Sanhora alive so as not to narrow the suspect pool.

Do you think I'm Sanhora's scumbuddy (and a pretty damn incompetent one who's been linking myself in the most obvious way possible to him), or that I'm trying to make myself look good by defending a group suspect? I don't get what you think my motivation is.

ABR replacing out out of the game because his hammer didn't count and the leading suspect suddenly became cleared?

This. Did. Not. Happen. At. All.
Read the flow of events.
Now read them again.
Only AFTER the mod came in and said the vote didn't count, would it have made sense that ABR was asked to have been replaced.
TWO posts happened after that fact.
You saying Sanhora was 'pretty much confirmed town' and my post in response to that one.

During the Sanhora talking, ABR wouldn't have been asked to be replaced.
Because its not like he went 'OH I HAMMERED A GUY THAT SAYS HE CAN CONFIRM HIMSELF WHILE TALKING IN TWILIGHT, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'

Then the mod said it wouldn't count.
Then your post, then mine.
Because its not like he went 'OH MINA SAID HE IS PRETTY MUCH CONFIRMED TOWN NOW, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'
Consider the fact that he could have CHANGED HIS VOTE AT ANY TIME IN ORDER TO SUCCESSFULLY HAMMER SANHORA.

I know the sequence of events. My point wasn't that ABR would have replaced out because Sanhora looked so townish that ABR was terrified of the pressure he'd be under for hammering.

My point is that if I were scum who'd put away a townie, rejoiced at the news that the hanged could have saved himself with a claim...then all of a sudden, had the rug pulled out from under me and been told that my vote didn't count--well, I'd be a little pissed off. I find it more likely that ABR would replace out to protest a mod decision that harmed his faction than to protest yet another deadline extension. I'll admit it's just a theory, though.

As for re-hammering...well, if you think he looks scummy now for hammering before a Sanhora claim, then imagine if he'd quickhammered AFTER Sanhora had claimed to have a provable role. He'd be lynched within twenty minutes tomorrow.

Anyway, like Iecerint said, why are you voting for ABR if you don't have a problem with him replacing out?

And its certainly not he looked at MY post in response to yours and was like 'WELL HE MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY BE CONFIRMED TOWN, OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'

This is probably your only valid point in this entire post. We don't know the exact minute at which ABR requested replacement--before or after your post. But true, ABR might have been able to get Sanhora lynched anyway. I'll admit I have doubts about him. I still think his replacement needs to be greeted with a big fat wagon.

And as far as anyone 'confirming' ANYthing, first and foremost:
REMEMBER THIS ISN'T A STRAIGHT FORWARD GAME.
ANYTHING "CONFIRMABLE" IS MOST LIKELY BASTARDLY.

I think the fact that Sanhora said it was confirmable

after

our perception of him no longer mattered implies that he

believed

it was confirmable, at the very least.

But anyway, this is irrelevant. If Sanhora does anything scummy, we can make him confirm his role. If his "confirmation" doesn't hold water, we lynch him. I don't see the point of outing another power role today.

SP, it looks like you're attacking Mina for clearing Sanford and being relatively sure about ABRscum. I certainly understand the former, but I don't understand the latter. Why are you voting ABR? Is it different from the reason that Mina is doing so?

Seconding this question. (Just to nitpick, though, I'm much more confident in Sanhora's innocence than ABR's guilt. I think his quickhammer-replace combined with his non-contribution all game was scummy, but I almost find him too scummy to be scum.)

But why do you think my clearing Sanhora was scummy? This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinely surprised I'm the only one who thinks Sanhora's reaction to the "hammer" was townish. I'd like to hear more opinions.

[Mina]

Last sentence of 387 made me think you were clearing Albert somehow after reading 389. Dunno.
I disapprove of Albert wagon.

Ellibereth, could you answer this:

Why are you voting Gerhard Krause? This is the only thing you've said about him all game:
Ellibereth wrote:
Don't think the rhymers are fakers. Having trouble reading them though, will look back later.

Why not RayFrost, or someone you actually suspect?

[MonkeyMan576]

Sanhora's reaction does not prove he was town
Scum try to act townish even after the enevitable goes down
The evidence on Kpaca is to hard to ignore
But the near hammer by Albert gives us more info to store

I believe that one is town and one is scum in the end
To think that both are on the same team is too difficult to mend.
So if Sanhora flips town, we have scum for next day
So lets all get in a conga line and start shouting HOORAY!

[SocioPath]

He didn't actually say anything? Um...what the hell are you talking about?

Here are two of Sanhora's posts, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE HAMMER!

And he didn't say anything in those posts.

Emphasis on "could be proven," "Seems I'll die sooner than the rose," "dramatic last words" and "my flip will show why." Pretty obviously an "I was lynched" reaction. He acted very confident that he'd flip town and other players would react in a certain way to the information from his flip. What's the point of such an elaborate charade if we'll all know he's scum in two minutes, anyway?

There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.

Yeah, every once in a blue moon, scum string things along just for fun after a hammer, rather than post "Bah, go scum!" I didn't get that impression from Sanhora's posts because of how many supporting details there were. But fine, calling him "confirmed town" was a little hasty. Do you agree that his reaction was a strong towntell?

There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.

I'm starting to doubt that you believe what you're arguing. What useful information could we have got from his reaction to Grimmy sparing him? "Yay, I'm alive"? "Guess what, guys, I actually

am

scum"? It's not like I defended him from a

case

before he responded. I was just stating the obvious--that Sanhora looked a hell of a lot better now. I'd argue that scum motivation would be to try to keep suspicion of Sanhora alive so as not to narrow the suspect pool.

There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.

I know the sequence of events. My point wasn't that ABR would have replaced out because Sanhora looked so townish that ABR was terrified of the pressure he'd be under for hammering.

My point is that if I were scum who'd put away a townie, rejoiced at the news that the hanged could have saved himself with a claim...then all of a sudden, had the rug pulled out from under me and been told that my vote didn't count--well, I'd be a little pissed off. I find it more likely that ABR would replace out to protest a mod decision that harmed his faction than to protest yet another deadline extension. I'll admit it's just a theory, though.

So, the logic flow of events, is that you assume ABR got replaced because of twilight.
Or the 'OH WHY WASN'T THE MOD ON THE SECOND I HAMMERED I EXPECTED THE THREAD TO BE IMMEDIATELY LOCKED OH SHI- REPLACE REPLACE!'

As for re-hammering...well, if you think he looks scummy now for hammering before a Sanhora claim, then imagine if he'd quickhammered AFTER Sanhora had claimed to have a provable role. He'd be lynched within twenty minutes tomorrow.

And yet he wanted replacement, which is worse in my eyes, because not only is the whole scummy intention their, the coward ran away without manning up to his actions.

Anyway, like Iecerint said, why are you voting for ABR if you don't have a problem with him replacing out?

Where did those words come from that you are putting in my mouth?
Just because Sanhora isn't cleared, doesn't mean Bert is.

I think the fact that Sanhora said it was confirmable

after

our perception of him no longer mattered implies that

he

believed

it was confirmable, at the very least

.

Bolded may very well be true although regardless of alignment, first part not so much.

I don't see the point of outing another power role today.

Me either.

I'm much more confident in Sanhora's innocence than ABR's guilt.

I'm much more confident in ABR's guilt than Sanhora's innocence.

I almost find him too scummy to be scum.

Fallacy.

But why do you think my clearing Sanhora was scummy? This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinely surprised I'm the only one who thinks Sanhora's reaction to the "hammer" was townish. I'd like to hear more opinions.

There is no 'I was lynched' reaction that implies heavily someone is town.

For my repeated quote of emphasis, I can link you to many games where scum proved such time and time again. Actually...scratch that. Just click on a random game, and you are likely to see at least one scum doing such, some more to the extent than other. In fact, one game comes to mind that the GAME WAS GOING TO BE CANCELED, and yet the scum still were playing that card. TO THE POINT IT WAS CLEAR THEY WERE SCUM BECAUSE OF THEIR INCESSANT BEHAVIOR. (At least, clear to me.)

[DragonsofSummer]

Life happened Mina. Will have them tomorrow afternoon. I am sorry about the delay everyone.

[RayFrost]

Replacing out.

Reason is I'm having difficulty motivating myself to catch up from where my posting dropped off as well as making posts, etc, etc, etc. Too many games, lack of interest, frustration, life quenching the amount of time and mental energy I have left to do a friggen' thing, the whole gallery, blah, blah, blah.

I know, I know, you all cry at my departure as well as shake fists of anger for the fact grimmy has to replace me, but... tough.

Mod: I request replacement

[Grimmy]

Ill be putting in for two replacements in a bit.

Grimmy

[Iecerint]

Sanhora's reaction does not prove he was town
Scum try to act townish even after the enevitable goes down
The evidence on Kpaca is to hard to ignore
But the near hammer by Albert gives us more info to store

I believe that one is town and one is scum in the end
To think that both are on the same team is too difficult to mend.
So if Sanhora flips town, we have scum for next day
So lets all get in a conga line and start shouting HOORAY!

This is very cute, but I disagree. I agree that ABR and kpaca are almost certainly not scum together, but, to the extent that ABR is not obvscum based on his meta, it's not at all true that they couldn't both be town.

[Ellibereth]

Last sentence of 387 made me think you were clearing Albert somehow after reading 389. Dunno.
I disapprove of Albert wagon.

Ellibereth, could you answer this:

Why are you voting Gerhard Krause? This is the only thing you've said about him all game:
Ellibereth wrote:
Don't think the rhymers are fakers. Having trouble reading them though, will look back later.

Why not RayFrost, or someone you actually suspect?

Now? No.

[DragonsofSummer]

Okay reread finished.

Mina: I was never attacking you because you did defend kpaca. I attacked you because you defended him before he ever defended himself. That being said, since he never actually showed up again it is somewhat of a moot point right now.

Now reads:

RayFrost: His play here is somewhat inconsistent with how I have seen him play in other games recently, but the fact that he has requested replacement eases my scummy vibe on him for now. Until I have more to go on from a potential replacement, he is neutral.

Sociopath: It seems to be generally accepted that he is playing within his town meta, and I think that he has made some good counter arguments toward those who don't agree with how he plays the game. But I don't see a lot of original non defensive thought from him either. For now he is in my town catagory.

Iecerint: Iece has been pursuing trains of thought, and actively working on scum hunting through his questioning. I have no qualms about him being town. (as a side note, I would like to remind you that I thought MordyS was scum in MoviestarMadness. No one would listen to me.)

Sanhora: Sanhora got a raw deal with the replace in, but at the same time, I agree with mina on the town tell. With the small amount of information we currently have to go on I put San in my town catagory as well. In complete honesty I think kpaca just gave up, and that is really all there is too it.

Mina: I still don't like the jump to defend kpaca before he ever did so himself. But her posting since has been very forceful. She is not backing away from cases she believes in and I see that as a good thing. For now town.

MonkeyMan576: Monkeyman has given very little thought on anything, and just keeps rhyming with no real content to add to the game. Unlike GK who has been pursuing people and actively scum hunting in spite of his PR Monkey has not. Scummy.

unvote vote MonkeyMan576

Gerhard Krause: I legitimately believe his PR, and think he is doing a good job interacting with everyone else despite his limitations. He is in my town catagory.

Jazzmyn: Her posting feels very reactionary to me, and it doesn't sit quite right. Thought I am currently guilty of much of the same, I don't like that most of her posting has been directed toward answering questions and not really putting pressure on anyone. Her reads up until the ABR thing have been very vague as well. Scummy.

Albert B. Rampage: Neutral. Will wait on replacement to make judgment here, but His vote to hammer right after a replacement is scummy.

MordyS: I didn't get a very strong feel of alignment from MordyS on my reread. He has talked a lot about theory, and very little about what is actually happening in this game. (That is partially because of the argument with ABR) Right now I am neutral on him.

Ellibereth: So far I like Ellibereths posting. He has been actively playing and interacting. For now town.

[MonkeyMan576]

MonkeyMan576: Monkeyman has given very little thought on anything, and just keeps rhyming with no real content to add to the game. Unlike GK who has been pursuing people and actively scum hunting in spite of his PR Monkey has not. Scummy.

unvote vote MonkeyMan576

I've added content, the game has been slow
voting for me is not the way to go.
It seems you are wagoning me because we disagree
Not a good reason to vote, look for scum, not me.

[Iecerint]

I agree with DoS about MM. I also don't like MM's recent claim that both ABR and kpaca having been town is impossible; in actuality, the only unlikely combination is that they are scumfriends AFAIK.

Since town had no reason (except error) to make that assertion, it could be that he was hoping to set-up a double mislynch. This looks slightly more likely IMO owing to his having ignored my criticism; maybe he thinks it'll go away, or that my failure to have voted him meant I wasn't serious enough about my criticism to pursue it. I think a scum player would be more likely to take that route whereas a town player would be likely to at least throw out a "my bad" or something.

There's also my prior point that there is a chance that he is faking his PR, whereas I think there is relatively little chance that GK is doing so. If he were faking the PR for pro-town reasons (as I prior speculated), I think he probably would have stepped in to help us evaluate GK's somewhat bizarre OTOK claim, especially because I explicitly mentioned as much back then.

Coupled with the assertion by a couple players that ABR could realistically pull that stunt as town (which I could possibly believe from the WoT read, though this is still a bit extreme),

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan

. Am awaiting ABR's replacement, though.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP:

Impossible

"Too difficult to mend," but it's the same argument and doesn't affect my criticism.

[Gerhard Krause]

I am inclined not to vote monkeyman,
until I have decided how strongly I feel about his rhyming.
Perhaps it makes sense for the two rhymers to be in the same van,
but both as scum would be terrible aligning.

[Grimmy]

THE SECOND LAST VOTE COUNT FOR DAY ONE

SANHORA - 3

MONKEYMAN576
MORDYS
GERHARD KRAUSE

ALBERT B RAMPAGE'S REPLACEMENT - 3

MINA
JAZZMYN
SOCIOPATH

MORDYS - 1

RAYFROST

GERHARD KRAUSSE - 1

ELLIBERETH

The deadline right now is a running joke due to the need for replacements. Im hoping that the incident with Al does not kill the enjoyment of this game for everyone else. if it does, I apologize.

See you all monday
Grimmy

[Iecerint]

I am inclined not to vote monkeyman,
until I have decided how strongly I feel about his rhyming.
Perhaps it makes sense for the two rhymers to be in the same van,
but both as scum would be terrible aligning.

1. Why is his rhyming the predominant tell you're concerned about?
2. Why are you even alluding to the possibility that you may both be scum? O.o

[Jazzmyn]

Sanhora's reaction does not prove he was town
Scum try to act townish even after the enevitable goes down
The evidence on Kpaca is to hard to ignore
But the near hammer by Albert gives us more info to store

I believe that one is town and one is scum in the end
To think that both are on the same team is too difficult to mend.
So if Sanhora flips town, we have scum for next day
So lets all get in a conga line and start shouting HOORAY!

While I agree that Sanhora's reaction does not

prove

that he is town, I think that his reaction to the ABR attempted hammer (which for all intents and purposes looked like it would count as a hammer at the time) was genuine, and far more indicative of town than scum, and I think that ABR's attempted hammer in the prevailing circumstances at the time is - by far - the scummiest move I've seen to date in this game.

Therefore, I do not agree with your suggestion that we should lynch Sanhora and if he flips town, lynch ABR('s replacement) tomorrow. I would much rather lynch the scummiest player today, and that is ABR. You're beginning to edge further up there yourself, though.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Am I the only one who thinks San was clearing Albert with his two posts?

I didn't read it that way at all.

On preview edit: I see that Sanhora responded to this himself subsequently and that you subsequently pinpointed the reference that you say made you think that he was clearing ABR. I guess I can see why you might have interpreted it that way, even though I did not read it that way.

Replacing out.

Reason is I'm having difficulty motivating myself to catch up from where my posting dropped off as well as making posts, etc, etc, etc. Too many games, lack of interest, frustration, life quenching the amount of time and mental energy I have left to do a friggen' thing, the whole gallery, blah, blah, blah.

I know, I know, you all cry at my departure as well as shake fists of anger for the fact grimmy has to replace me, but... tough.

Mod: I request replacement

Normally, I wouldn't take someone's replacing out as suspicious, but looking at RayFrost's history in this game where he has done little but act like ABR's little sycophant, and looking at his wiki (which has been updated as recently as today), it appears that he has not replaced out of any of his other multiple ongoing games in which he is still alive (~11), so this just strikes me as off.

I may be overthinking things, but I thought this worth mentioning. Disclaimer: the forum's profile search function is disabled, so I am not certain that the 11 games currently listed in his wiki as ongoing games in which he is still alive are the totality of his ongoing games, and it is, therefore, possible that he is in other games that he has replaced out of others citing the reasons he cited above, but on the available evidence at the moment, that does not appear to be the case.

So, his replacing out of this game immediately after ABR did so in "protest" strikes me as potentially suspicious, on the basis that a scum partner might join a "protesting" partner in replacing out, especially if the second one has exhibited such sycophantic behaviour towards ABR as RayFrost has done in this game.

So, for what it's worth, I thought I should mention it.

Regards,
Jazz