Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[evilsnail]

Day 1 Vote Count

ace5993 ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 3 ) mykonian plum popsofctown
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 2 ) DrippingGoofball Albert B. Rampage
farside22 ( 1 ) gayle
fishythefish ( 1 ) Raskol
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 1 ) fishythefish
Albert B. Rampage ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) flareonage
Raskol ( 4 ) evilsnail farside22 ojanen elvis_knits
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 2 ) ace5993 Rhinox
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

It's not in MD/GD. It's in the sign-up thread to this game.

[Ojanen]

Well DGB triggers some interesting turns of phrases from people.
@evilsnail: how do you go about attempting to read DGB?
I've had a pro-town read on pops although 266 is a little bizarre. He doesn't know what to think on DGB play, calls it erratic, denies defending DGB in general, goes on to express concern over "insanity plea scumhunting" and promptly votes her.

Still like my Raskol vote. Not only being totally tiptoeish and then pulling out a substantially disagreeable suspicion about right away after my criticism, he feels largely different to the Raskol I met in a previous game.
Admittedly one-game metas are sucky but it's the solidest bad feel I've got at the moment.

@Fishy: do you think, from a point of an individual scumplayer, that getting apart from buddies to the other universe would seem disadvantageous early? (I'm asking you cause I don't trust my own judgment on the strategy discussion.)
@Albert: you throw me off balance cause, I dunno, you're consistently nice to me? I can't use my self-demeaning wonderful shield from the world.

[popsofctown]

Ojanen, would you expect an analysis of DGB's play to be anything but bizarre?

[evilsnail]

@evilsnail: how do you go about attempting to read DGB?

Well, DGB as I remember her is a gut player, especially on day 1, which I find hard to read. But there are a few things I do look for. Gut is erratic, so you look for rapid changes of heart. Going after one player really hard for some time and then suddenly backing off on the basis of one townie-looking comment. That sort of thing. Paradoxically, relying heavily on logic can also be a scum tell (because it indicates an absence of gut feelings). Finally, if my gut reads are the same, that's usually a sense of pro-townness.

In this game, I feel her logic about the scum tell question could be a tell of the second type, but that's about all I have on her so far.

[zorastermod]

cancel that. Reckoner can't replace. searching for another

[DrippingGoofball]

Please - don't let this intrusion from the mod interrupt this fascinating conversation about me. I'm still trying to decide whether evilsnail is buddying up... I'm such a fool for flattery that way.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Albert: you throw me off balance cause, I dunno, you're consistently nice to me? I can't use my self-demeaning wonderful shield from the world.

I try to be nice lol

'Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.' -Malcolm X[/i]

[Albert B. Rampage]

Right now I'm not loving elvis knits, could switch a vote to her if I bothered

[Raskol]

vote: Fish

For attacking Gayle on something I think makes Gayle more likely to be town than scum, but which might look like fuel for an easy bandwagon.

Which point of mine are you referring to here?

Center paragraph in your iso 18.

[Raskol]

I really don't see how I was adding pressure to a gayle wagon btw, assuming there was one at the time.

Here's how I would lay out that exchange:

-I'm taking part in a strategy discussion (sorta).
-Gayle says something about how we shold stop the discussion
-I ask him(her?) what he/she would prefer and point out he/she isn't providing any alternatives (as an answer to his/her complaints)
-I go about my business afterwards and continue the strategy discussion, mentioning gayle again only to explain why I think it's useful that I/we do so.

You're going to have to explain yourself a bit more substantially, ek. More to the point, can you show me any place in any of my posts where an unbiased person might think that I'm encouraging people to vote for gayle or implying that gayle is scum? Because, you know, misrep is bad.

[Raskol]

BTW elvis, while you're answering that, could you go ahead and let me know how usual it is for you to claim town before you even have any votes on you?

A

lso, dgb has almost flawless ability to tell my alignment, so her calling me scum is somewhat of a problem since I'm town.

Maybe it's just because of my computer problems and she hasn't seen enough from me? The weird part is that even if she's scum I wouldn't expect her to call me scum. I've been in the situation where she's scum and I think she feels bad about screwing me over like that. Also she probably knows how I love to be buddied and she can get more of my bees with honey. So I'm confused as to her calling me scum. Perhaps she really does think it... indicating she's town? I don't know. It's a mindfuck for me.

Speaking of subtly egging on bandwagons, would you like to clarify whether you think DGB is scum or town? I can't understand what you're saying through that much defensive waffling.

vote: elvis_knits

(just fyi, this is what it looks like when I want to push a wagon on someone)

[Raskol]

Right now I'm not loving elvis knits, could switch a vote to her if I bothered

yes pls

[elvis_knits]

ahahaha

What is that I smell? OMGUS?

If you need a wall of quotes/text to point out your flaws, I can do that. (post coming)

Regarding DGB, I'm not trying to waffle. I'm undecided on her. I don't have to be decided on every person at all times. I explained what I am suspicious of (the evilsnail reasoning) and why my read is not clear-cut on her. I am trying to decide, hence my questioning her about evilsnail. And I'm not going to be pushed by you or anyone else to make a decision on her or anyone else.

[elvis_knits]

This is where you add fuel to the Gayle wagon. The reason it's fuel is that you're criticising her with the exact same thing that people are wagoning her for.

There is really nothing I can say to defend myself from "Finding the strategy discussion irritating is scummy". I maintain that it is pointless to continue the strategy discussion.

You would prefer maybe random voting? Jokes about avatars?

Strategy discussion is necessary because what strategy we follow later, if any, will determine how likely it is that we'll reach our win conditions. For that reason, it's kinda important, you know?

In any case, you don't seem to be trying very hard to bring up something different to talk about.

I dislike this post for so many reasons. First of all, it's just a rehash of what pops, farside, and fishy said about Gayle's comments, illustrated here:

As if the strategy discussion created a post restriction that cut off random vote posts anyway.

Gayle isn't making sense about RVS in any way shape for form but I was willing to see how far she goes to hang herself on the issue.

Also, her comment about RVS is blow totally out of proportion. She didn't say that we shouldn't discuss strategy. She said that people had put in their thoughts and discussed it, but that we should move on. Let's look at what she said:

Either way it is left up to the teleporter. If we want a person teleported, we just let the teleporter know and they'll do whatever they want. There is no reason to rig up some system to select the teleportee, because in the end it is up to the teleporter no matter what anyone else does.

The strategies have been presented. The dissents have been presented. Can we move on now?

I think that continuing discussing strategy is pointless. Seems to me that the teleporters will decide for themselves on what to do. You are right in that it is better than discussing nothing, but it feels like the game still hasn't begun because we haven't decided on a strategy. You say that it can be quite the springboard, but I think it will just lead to someone being accused as scum for liking one strategy over another. I'm sure someone with say that is fine, but I'd rather not go down that route.

As for an alternative direction, I'd prefer if the strategy discussion hadn't interrupted the rvs.

I really don't see how this is a scummy POV. Too much strategy talk can interfere with scum hunting. It's a type of IIOA. Gayle correctly encourages us not to overdo the strategy discussion, and people jump down her throat, picking on the RVS comment like it was some sort of venal sin.

So when Raskol chimes in with post 109, echoing the exact sentiments of the three people wagoning her, it is definitely adding support to the sucky Gayle wagon, and in a cowardly way since he's not backing it up with a vote on Gayle. This is a scum move designed to "test the waters" and see if the wagon has legs... see if other people are going to buy this crap. If nobody buys this crap and the wagon fails, Raskol can backpedal (like he's doing now) and say he never thought Gayle was scum. THEN WHY WAS RASKOL USING THE SAME REASONING/ATTACKS AS THE WAGONERS? HMM?

[mykonian]

I agree

vote raskol

You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?

[Raskol]

ahahaha

What is that I smell? OMGUS?

If you need a wall of quotes/text to point out your flaws, I can do that. (post coming)

Regarding DGB, I'm not trying to waffle. I'm undecided on her. I don't have to be decided on every person at all times. I explained what I am suspicious of (the evilsnail reasoning) and why my read is not clear-cut on her. I am trying to decide, hence my questioning her about evilsnail. And I'm not going to be pushed by you or anyone else to make a decision on her or anyone else.

It's only OMGUS if I don't have a reason for voting you other than your voting for me (example of OMGUS: your speculation of DGB's alignment based on her negative read on you). Early town-claims are pretty good scumtells though IME. Notice you completely ignored that part of my case against you---that's okay, I'll keep drawing attention to it.

I think it's perfectly fine to vote for someone that's voting for you, if they also happen to be the scummiest player in the game. You fit the bill atm.

So, back to your scumminess: you get called scum by one person that doesn't even vote for you---then you claim town, and waffle about your accusers' alignment while they are being pressured by others.

This is a coincidence, if we're to believe what you say.

Meanwhile, the person I disagree with in a completely non-accusatory way (my post wasn't an attack at all, and it won't become one no matter how many times you say it was) and then declare to be likely town, is someone I'm trying to push a bandwagon on.

So when I disagree with someone and later defend them as town, it counts as pushing their wagon. When you speculate that someone could be scum

just for thinking that you are

and then refuse to come out with a read on them, it's okay.

Do you always fail this hard at logic, or is this a scum-specific thing for you?

_____________________________________________________________________________

mykonian---you sure you're not just mad I pointed out how dumb your question was?

If you really do think your point is a good one (frankly I'd think more of you if you were to admit you're just rage-voting but w/e) then let me ask you how switching my vote this early in the game is a scumtell. Care to enlighten me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

O.K.

Unvote vote elvis knits

[mykonian]

mykonian---you sure you're not just mad I pointed out how dumb your question was?

If you really do think your point is a good one (frankly I'd think more of you if you were to admit you're just rage-voting but w/e) then let me ask you how switching my vote this early in the game is a scumtell. Care to enlighten me?

nope, not mad about that, because frankly, you only said it was pointless, but never argued the theory behind this statement (this is not an invitation, to me you have made your point clear that you are not going to answer it for whatever reason)

To the point, because the above is only an introduction to your play that you try to hide, somebody (I forgot who) called you on not having placed a vote. Suddenly you vote Fishy for a wishy-washy point, without quote. I find you suspicious for this, and post that. Elvis agrees, and you have completely missed that point seen the above post where you strawman me by saying the question is the only post of the case.

But suddenly, without ever mentioning Fishy and your "case" on him, you switch for another interesting target, this time on the accusation that Elvis said she thinks DGB scum, but then again some points are in DGB's favor. That seems like analysis to me, but you vote her for it.

It is not placing multiple votes, it is making bad cases, and avoiding responsibility as soon as people post they were bad (as with your fishy case)

[farside22]

Okay so raskol doesn't seem to be defending EK's points against him from what I can see. And yes I do see scum that telegraph a weak case and not vote on it as a scum tell.
However I do more often then not see scum proclaim themselves town early like EK did. Even though all Raskol did was point to one paragraph and highlight without saying much about his reasoning I can see why EK thought it was OMGUS.
ABR doesnt' feel town to me. Call it gut but I'm just thinking of our last game together and he feels off to me.
Right now I'm keeping my vote on Raskol because he didn't say much till now when there was pressure on him with some votes and when people don't respond to votes I find it more unnerving then those that do.

[elvis_knits]

The "claiming town" point is entirely stupid.

1)As far as I know, this "tell" refers to roleclaims. Which mine wasn't.

2)Everyone is going to say they're town no matter if they are or not. It's not crazy.

3)I didn't say I was town in response to pressure, I said I was town as part of my speculation on DGB since she normally has a high success rate for reading my allignment. There was literally no way for me to share my thinking without saying that I am town. Look at the context. Without context, scumtells are entirely useless.

[Plum]

Mmmmm. I've heard the "claiming town" argument; it was used against me once when I mentioned something; in context, EK's context seems similar (and yes, i

was

Town in that case) (and my accuser was scum, but that's another barrel of monkeys. In any case, it is

not

a strong tell.

[popsofctown]

DGB, is Raskol or e_k scummier?

[elvis_knits]

@ UNIVERSE TWO

... Nobody in this universe will help me understand the strategy, or maybe none of us understand the strategy. Please outline the strategy. And please make it simple enough for a monkey to understand.

Thanks.

[farside22]

Mmmmm. I've heard the "claiming town" argument; it was used against me once when I mentioned something; in context, EK's context seems similar (and yes, i

was

Town in that case) (and my accuser was scum, but that's another barrel of monkeys. In any case, it is

not

a strong tell.

I did it as scum in a game I think that's why I can see what people are talking about but so far it's minor in comparison.

[Gayle]

Yesterday I meant to post a message saying I would be busy, but apparently it didn't post. You all are to blame because you haven't been using your hard earned money to buy mith some ramsticks. I'll be back later tonight to make a proper post.

Some quick comments though:

-The whole argument about EK claiming town is ridiculous. That is, it is not scummy in the least.
-Myko's vote seems opportunistic.
-Disagree about pops being 'so towny in hurts'


Also, zoraster has been accused of being a disappointing mod and his posts are apparently intrusions. Loving it. Keep up the abuse guys!