Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[MichelSableheart]

Kunkstar

Patriots mostly ignored Kunkstar. He responded to some questions by Kunkstar, and gave a mild defense in ISO #17. The most interesting thing though, is that he places Kunkstar third on his suspicion list, initially with no reasoning given, later explained as gut. I can easily see his behaviour there as distancing.

ISO #6 by Kunkstar is interesting, in that his stance on random voting is effectively defending Patriots.
Kunkstar played an important role in the early pressure on Magic Trainer, but wasn't the one who started that wagon. But after Magic Trainer gave his explanation in #109 and Medix became the big wagon, Kunk switched without another word on Magic Trainer.
Kunkstar's vote on the Medix bandwagon matches how scum would behave toward such a wagon. When it's obvious that most people are agreeing with it and there isn't much chance of repercussion, he joins the wagon of the likely mislynch.
ISO #16 by Kunkstar is remarkable. When asked why he wants to lynch Medix, he replies that if Medix isn't scum, he is providing the scum with an easy lynch target. A statement along these lines is repeated in ISO #20, when he agrees with me about voting for someone not helping the town being the biggest cause of mislynches. Yet he continues to vote Medix.
Kunkstar's response to Patriots is mainly about how Patriots voted Kunk. He doesn't comment about the other points brought up against Patriots.
Kunk doesn't take a strong position on Patriots when he is the focus of discussion. He mentions being hesitant to believe the claim, but isn't really attacking Patriots.
However, when it has become obvious that Patriots is scum, he takes the opportunity to score town points by placing the hammer.

Overall, Kunk's behaviour strikes me as opportunistic chasing the likely bandwagons, and keeping neutral on Patriots until it had become obvious he was scum. Very likely mafia.

Randommaster

Patriots mostly ignored Randommaster, only mentioning him when Randommaster asked him a direct question.

RandomMaster was the one who started the attack on Magic Trainer, but quickly gave it up, even though others added to the pressure.
He quickly joined the Medix wagon, was the third person on it, and gave a FoS before it picked up speed.
Randommaster's answer to the question why he was voting Medix was a lot better then the answer Kunk gave. The reasons he gives aren't strong, but on second read do indicate that Random believe Medix was scum.
Random was the first to point out the contradiction in Kunk's behaviour (Medix is easy mislynch vs vote Medix)
Random's response to Patriots and his claim feels natural. He adds pressure when he's there, bringing up original points.

Overall, Random gives me reasonably good vibes. He joins attacks because he believes in them, doesn't feel opportunistic. I can't really match his behaviour to scum. Random is probably town.

Flareonage

Patriots completely ignored both Magic Trainer and Flareonage. Neither of them is mentioned by him at all.

Magic Trainer was under quite a bit of pressure early in the game. He was annoyed about it, but didn't lose his head, kept explaining. Ultimately, he came with a good explanation of his posts.
Magic was one of the last to join the Medix wagon. He had good reasons, and was careful about actually voting, so his joining didn't feel very opportunistic. Still, his joining could be scum strengthening a wagon.

Flareonage is hardly participating at all. He makes short posts, doesn't give much content.
His position on the Patriots lynch give him small town points. He disbelieved the claim and joined the wagon before it was obvious that Patriots was scum. Still, Patriots was under a lot of pressure already by then, and his lynch was starting to look inevitable, so this could be bussing.

I really don't have strong feelings either way on Magic Trainer/Flareonage. Neither of them have stood out. Neither made actions that strongly benefit scum, but neither made actions that strongly benefit town either. Possible scum.

-------
Kunkstar strikes me as by far the most likely scumsuspect. Flareonage is a distant second for me. I'm going to

Vote: Kunkstar

putting him at L-2.

[MichelSableheart]

Kunkstar

Patriots mostly ignored Kunkstar. He responded to some questions by Kunkstar, and gave a mild defense in ISO #17. The most interesting thing though, is that he places Kunkstar third on his suspicion list, initially with no reasoning given, later explained as gut. I can easily see his behaviour there as distancing.

ISO #6 by Kunkstar is interesting, in that his stance on random voting is effectively defending Patriots.
Kunkstar played an important role in the early pressure on Magic Trainer, but wasn't the one who started that wagon. But after Magic Trainer gave his explanation in #109 and Medix became the big wagon, Kunk switched without another word on Magic Trainer.
Kunkstar's vote on the Medix bandwagon matches how scum would behave toward such a wagon. When it's obvious that most people are agreeing with it and there isn't much chance of repercussion, he joins the wagon of the likely mislynch.
ISO #16 by Kunkstar is remarkable. When asked why he wants to lynch Medix, he replies that if Medix isn't scum, he is providing the scum with an easy lynch target. A statement along these lines is repeated in ISO #20, when he agrees with me about voting for someone not helping the town being the biggest cause of mislynches. Yet he continues to vote Medix.
Kunkstar's response to Patriots is mainly about how Patriots voted Kunk. He doesn't comment about the other points brought up against Patriots.
Kunk doesn't take a strong position on Patriots when he is the focus of discussion. He mentions being hesitant to believe the claim, but isn't really attacking Patriots.
However, when it has become obvious that Patriots is scum, he takes the opportunity to score town points by placing the hammer.

Overall, Kunk's behaviour strikes me as opportunistic chasing the likely bandwagons, and keeping neutral on Patriots until it had become obvious he was scum. Very likely mafia.

Randommaster

Patriots mostly ignored Randommaster, only mentioning him when Randommaster asked him a direct question.

RandomMaster was the one who started the attack on Magic Trainer, but quickly gave it up, even though others added to the pressure.
He quickly joined the Medix wagon, was the third person on it, and gave a FoS before it picked up speed.
Randommaster's answer to the question why he was voting Medix was a lot better then the answer Kunk gave. The reasons he gives aren't strong, but on second read do indicate that Random believe Medix was scum.
Random was the first to point out the contradiction in Kunk's behaviour (Medix is easy mislynch vs vote Medix)
Random's response to Patriots and his claim feels natural. He adds pressure when he's there, bringing up original points.

Overall, Random gives me reasonably good vibes. He joins attacks because he believes in them, doesn't feel opportunistic. I can't really match his behaviour to scum. Random is probably town.

Flareonage

Patriots completely ignored both Magic Trainer and Flareonage. Neither of them is mentioned by him at all.

Magic Trainer was under quite a bit of pressure early in the game. He was annoyed about it, but didn't lose his head, kept explaining. Ultimately, he came with a good explanation of his posts.
Magic was one of the last to join the Medix wagon. He had good reasons, and was careful about actually voting, so his joining didn't feel very opportunistic. Still, his joining could be scum strengthening a wagon.

Flareonage is hardly participating at all. He makes short posts, doesn't give much content.
His position on the Patriots lynch give him small town points. He disbelieved the claim and joined the wagon before it was obvious that Patriots was scum. Still, Patriots was under a lot of pressure already by then, and his lynch was starting to look inevitable, so this could be bussing.

I really don't have strong feelings either way on Magic Trainer/Flareonage. Neither of them have stood out. Neither made actions that strongly benefit scum, but neither made actions that strongly benefit town either. Possible scum.

-------
Kunkstar strikes me as by far the most likely scumsuspect. Flareonage is a distant second for me. I'm going to

Vote: Kunkstar

putting him at L-2.

[MichelSableheart]

Kunkstar

Patriots mostly ignored Kunkstar. He responded to some questions by Kunkstar, and gave a mild defense in ISO #17. The most interesting thing though, is that he places Kunkstar third on his suspicion list, initially with no reasoning given, later explained as gut. I can easily see his behaviour there as distancing.

ISO #6 by Kunkstar is interesting, in that his stance on random voting is effectively defending Patriots.
Kunkstar played an important role in the early pressure on Magic Trainer, but wasn't the one who started that wagon. But after Magic Trainer gave his explanation in #109 and Medix became the big wagon, Kunk switched without another word on Magic Trainer.
Kunkstar's vote on the Medix bandwagon matches how scum would behave toward such a wagon. When it's obvious that most people are agreeing with it and there isn't much chance of repercussion, he joins the wagon of the likely mislynch.
ISO #16 by Kunkstar is remarkable. When asked why he wants to lynch Medix, he replies that if Medix isn't scum, he is providing the scum with an easy lynch target. A statement along these lines is repeated in ISO #20, when he agrees with me about voting for someone not helping the town being the biggest cause of mislynches. Yet he continues to vote Medix.
Kunkstar's response to Patriots is mainly about how Patriots voted Kunk. He doesn't comment about the other points brought up against Patriots.
Kunk doesn't take a strong position on Patriots when he is the focus of discussion. He mentions being hesitant to believe the claim, but isn't really attacking Patriots.
However, when it has become obvious that Patriots is scum, he takes the opportunity to score town points by placing the hammer.

Overall, Kunk's behaviour strikes me as opportunistic chasing the likely bandwagons, and keeping neutral on Patriots until it had become obvious he was scum. Very likely mafia.

Randommaster

Patriots mostly ignored Randommaster, only mentioning him when Randommaster asked him a direct question.

RandomMaster was the one who started the attack on Magic Trainer, but quickly gave it up, even though others added to the pressure.
He quickly joined the Medix wagon, was the third person on it, and gave a FoS before it picked up speed.
Randommaster's answer to the question why he was voting Medix was a lot better then the answer Kunk gave. The reasons he gives aren't strong, but on second read do indicate that Random believe Medix was scum.
Random was the first to point out the contradiction in Kunk's behaviour (Medix is easy mislynch vs vote Medix)
Random's response to Patriots and his claim feels natural. He adds pressure when he's there, bringing up original points.

Overall, Random gives me reasonably good vibes. He joins attacks because he believes in them, doesn't feel opportunistic. I can't really match his behaviour to scum. Random is probably town.

Flareonage

Patriots completely ignored both Magic Trainer and Flareonage. Neither of them is mentioned by him at all.

Magic Trainer was under quite a bit of pressure early in the game. He was annoyed about it, but didn't lose his head, kept explaining. Ultimately, he came with a good explanation of his posts.
Magic was one of the last to join the Medix wagon. He had good reasons, and was careful about actually voting, so his joining didn't feel very opportunistic. Still, his joining could be scum strengthening a wagon.

Flareonage is hardly participating at all. He makes short posts, doesn't give much content.
His position on the Patriots lynch give him small town points. He disbelieved the claim and joined the wagon before it was obvious that Patriots was scum. Still, Patriots was under a lot of pressure already by then, and his lynch was starting to look inevitable, so this could be bussing.

I really don't have strong feelings either way on Magic Trainer/Flareonage. Neither of them have stood out. Neither made actions that strongly benefit scum, but neither made actions that strongly benefit town either. Possible scum.

-------
Kunkstar strikes me as by far the most likely scumsuspect. Flareonage is a distant second for me. I'm going to

Vote: Kunkstar

putting him at L-2.

--------------
BOARD IS ACTING UP. I can see my message posted in the preview, but not in the actual thread. Sorry if this is a triple post.

[kunkstar7]

Weird, I see MS's post in ISO, but not here.

[kunkstar7]

Patriots mostly ignored Kunkstar. He responded to some questions by Kunkstar, and gave a mild defense in ISO #17. The most interesting thing though, is that he places Kunkstar third on his suspicion list, initially with no reasoning given, later explained as gut. I can easily see his behaviour there as distancing.

I don't see why he would try distancing himself from me when there was no connection between us at the moment. Adding me to his scumlist only effectively served to try and bring up suspicion against me, not something scum would do to their partner when they are being ignored for the most part.

ISO #6 by Kunkstar is interesting, in that his stance on random voting is effectively defending Patriots.

Patriots random vote was a result of a dice roll. I explained in ISO #6 that I did not agree with this style of voting as it provides nothing to cause a reaction to. His idea that random votes are there to test reactions and begin discussion I do believe in, and I think most people do, even yourself. Yet I disagreed with his style of voting with dice.

Kunkstar played an important role in the early pressure on Magic Trainer, but wasn't the one who started that wagon. But after Magic Trainer gave his explanation in #109 and Medix became the big wagon, Kunk switched without another word on Magic Trainer.

In Post 109 I felt that Magic Trainer's response was adequate. So I went looking elsewhere.

Kunkstar's vote on the Medix bandwagon matches how scum would behave toward such a wagon. When it's obvious that most people are agreeing with it and there isn't much chance of repercussion, he joins the wagon of the likely mislynch.

Unfortunately I don't have a defense against this.

ISO #16 by Kunkstar is remarkable. When asked why he wants to lynch Medix, he replies that if Medix isn't scum, he is providing the scum with an easy lynch target. A statement along these lines is repeated in ISO #20, when he agrees with me about voting for someone not helping the town being the biggest cause of mislynches. Yet he continues to vote Medix.

I explained that I did believe there was a chance that Medix was scum. Since there was a likelihood that Medix may have been town I saw no reason to switch my vote when I had no substantial case on another.

Medix was our lead at the moment, due to his posts being weak, inconsistent and also sparse. These things are tells for both scum and town. My leaning at the time was that he was probably acting more townie newb vibe rather than inconsistent scum. Since the reasons I had voted Medix for were also tells for scum, I found no reason to unvote for there was a chance he could be scum

Kunkstar's response to Patriots is mainly about how Patriots voted Kunk. He doesn't comment about the other points brought up against Patriots.
Kunk doesn't take a strong position on Patriots when he is the focus of discussion. He mentions being hesitant to believe the claim, but isn't really attacking Patriots.

I questioned what I felt was relevant to me that I could comment on. His placing me on his scumlist for no reason was horrible, from any view. Strength of position is relational, I felt that I was opposing PD09 strongly, yet you feel otherwise.

[almightybob]

Apologies guys, I've been pretty distracted recently. Consider me

V/LA

for the next couple of days, as I won't have much time to spare for this game. Hopefully I should be a bit more sorted by then.

[pablito]

Vote Count

Lastsurvivor (2): kunkstar7, Flareonage
kunkstar7 (2): RandomMaster, MichelSableheart

Not Voting: Lastsurvivor, almightybob, Kyiv

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

[MichelSableheart]

I don't see why he would try distancing himself from me when there was no connection between us at the moment. Adding me to his scumlist only effectively served to try and bring up suspicion against me, not something scum would do to their partner when they are being ignored for the most part.

There was no reasoning attached to your placement there. He could have put any player in the game there with the same result. It is highly unlikely that such a move results in more suspicion on you. It does allow him to say "look, I already suspected kunk day 1" in the event that you are lynched and turn up scum.

Patriots random vote was a result of a dice roll. I explained in ISO #6 that I did not agree with this style of voting as it provides nothing to cause a reaction to. His idea that random votes are there to test reactions and begin discussion I do believe in, and I think most people do, even yourself. Yet I disagreed with his style of voting with dice.

Actually, I don't think random votes have a place in the game at all. There can always be found a reason to vote, in my experience. Which is why a stance of "random voting in general is good, you just can't let it out that the vote was actually random" feels slightly iffy to me. Still, this is an extremely weak point.

I explained that I did believe there was a chance that Medix was scum. Since there was a likelihood that Medix may have been town I saw no reason to switch my vote when I had no substantial case on another.

Medix was our lead at the moment, due to his posts being weak, inconsistent and also sparse. These things are tells for both scum and town. My leaning at the time was that he was probably acting more townie newb vibe rather than inconsistent scum. Since the reasons I had voted Medix for were also tells for scum, I found no reason to unvote for there was a chance he could be scum

The fact remains that you were voting someone who you essentially believed to be town, even though you agreed that was the biggest cause of mislynches. Because there are two scum in the game, there must be players who you believe are scum, or of whom you simply don't know what to believe. Voting anyone of them is better then voting someone you belief is town.

[pablito]

Flareonage, Kyiv and lastsurvivor have been prodded.

[Flareonage]

so there is no cop? Has everyone posted since the last scene?

[Kyiv]

Yes, everyone has.

I was thinking Flareonage more than anyone, but your Kunk case is a bit better than my case. I won't vote until we see what happens with RandomMaster's slot.

[Flareonage]

I was thinking Flareonage more than anyone, but your Kunk case is a bit better than my case. I won't vote until we see what happens with RandomMaster's slot.

why is that?

[Lastsurvivor]

I was thinking Flareonage more than anyone, but your Kunk case is a bit better than my case. I won't vote until we see what happens with RandomMaster's slot.

why is that?

I find you scummy (dunno about Kyiv) because you haven't exactly had an original thought this entire game.

Kunk's my top lynch right now, due to just about everything MS said and his reaction to my "soft suspicion" a while ago. Who is everyone's top pick for a lynch right now?

[Flareonage]

I find you scummy (dunno about Kyiv) because you haven't exactly had an original thought this entire game.

That's it?

I'm not exactly known for original thoughts and contributing. People hate it but I think its better then the scum who contribute and mislead the town

[kunkstar7]

Kunk's my top lynch right now, due to just about everything MS said and his reaction to my "soft suspicion" a while ago.?

Why is my reaction to your soft suspicion scummy? Please clarify reasoning. If I had to guess I'm going for overdefensiveness. But please, state your reasoning why its scummy.

I find you scummy (dunno about Kyiv) because you haven't exactly had an original thought this entire game.

That's it?

I'm not exactly known for original thoughts and contributing. People hate it but I think its better then the scum who contribute and mislead the town

Ummm...then whats the point of playing...? if you aren't going to contribute then why are you here?

[Flareonage]

I didn't say that I don't contribute on purpose

[Lastsurvivor]

I find you scummy (dunno about Kyiv) because you haven't exactly had an original thought this entire game.

That's it?

I'm not exactly known for original thoughts and contributing. People hate it but I think its better then the scum who contribute and mislead the town

Scum that contributes and misleads the town is scum with guts.

Scum that doesn't contribute original thoughts is scum with no guts.

Common denominator? They're both scum. It's hard to get a read on you, because you don't exactly do anything. But the tiny little read I have isn't exactly great.

@Kunk: I would call it over aggressiveness. It just seems like something that someone would reply with "Er, that doesn't make me scum at all." but you kind of went over the top instead.

[Lastsurvivor]

EDIT: 'It' being my original post.

[kunkstar7]

Ok. Over-anything is purely perspective. It can be either attributed to play-style, current mood that person is, whatever. As such, I do not think that it is a viable reason to call something scummy.

It is each member of the town's job to make sure that they protect and defend themselves from false accusations to help prevent a mislynch. It is also town's duty to search out tells in other player's posts in hopes of finding scum. I found something scummy in your post, and I was defending myself from said accusation.

I don't see why he would try distancing himself from me when there was no connection between us at the moment. Adding me to his scumlist only effectively served to try and bring up suspicion against me, not something scum would do to their partner when they are being ignored for the most part.

There was no reasoning attached to your placement there. He could have put any player in the game there with the same result. It is highly unlikely that such a move results in more suspicion on you. It does allow him to say "look, I already suspected kunk day 1" in the event that you are lynched and turn up scum.

This is true. Yet the same could be said of your second sentence. "Look, I already suspected {{player's name}} Day 1". By not attaching a reason he just showed that he was trying to find someone quickly to get suspicion on without real effort, and it makes it highly unlikely that he foresaw such a situation.

I explained that I did believe there was a chance that Medix was scum. Since there was a likelihood that Medix may have been scum I saw no reason to switch my vote when I had no substantial case on another.

Medix was our lead at the moment, due to his posts being weak, inconsistent and also sparse. These things are tells for both scum and town. My leaning at the time was that he was probably acting more townie newb vibe rather than inconsistent scum. Since the reasons I had voted Medix for were also tells for scum, I found no reason to unvote for there was a chance he could be scum

The fact remains that you were voting someone who you essentially believed to be town, even though you agreed that was the biggest cause of mislynches. Because there are two scum in the game, there must be players who you believe are scum, or of whom you simply don't know what to believe. Voting anyone of them is better then voting someone you belief is town.

What I'm trying to say here was Medix could have gone either way. His play was both bad scum and bad town play. With a chance that he may have been scummy, then yes it is worth pressing that case to see what it leads to. I could not see much else to go on at the moment, so pushing the Medix case was what I felt was right at the moment.

[Lastsurvivor]

Ok. Over-anything is purely perspective. It can be either attributed to play-style, current mood that person is, whatever. As such, I do not think that it is a viable reason to call something scummy.

It is each member of the town's job to make sure that they protect and defend themselves from false accusations to help prevent a mislynch. It is also town's duty to search out tells in other player's posts in hopes of finding scum. I found something scummy in your post, and I was defending myself from said accusation.

I agree with the second paragraph. You defended yourself, and you were totally justified in doing so (hell, it would be really weird if you didn't).

The first paragraph is true, also. I just don't think it applies to you. It isn't your playing style. You can respond to big bulky posts that contain a lot of accusations towards you just fine, but one little post that contains a 'soft suspicion' needs to be defended with aggression.

[MichelSableheart]

so there is no cop? Has everyone posted since the last scene?

We may still have a cop who investigated Gayle. However, everyone posted, so we don't have a cop who has info to share at this point in time.

[MichelSableheart]

@mod: how is finding a replacement going?

Flareonage, don't you have any thoughts on my analysis of the game whatsoever?

This is true. Yet the same could be said of your second sentence. "Look, I already suspected {{player's name}} Day 1". By not attaching a reason he just showed that he was trying to find someone quickly to get suspicion on without real effort, and it makes it highly unlikely that he foresaw such a situation.

Sorry, I can't agree with that analysis. post #258 shows me that Patriots was very much aware of the possibility of distancing.

What I'm trying to say here was Medix could have gone either way. His play was both bad scum and bad town play. With a chance that he may have been scummy, then yes it is worth pressing that case to see what it leads to. I could not see much else to go on at the moment, so pushing the Medix case was what I felt was right at the moment.

I simply don't understand how you can agree with my statement that lynching for noncontribution rather then scummyness is the biggest cause of mislynches if that is what you felt. My statement implies a strong belief that Medix is town.

[kunkstar7]

@mod: how is finding a replacement going?

Flareonage, don't you have any thoughts on my analysis of the game whatsoever?

This is true. Yet the same could be said of your second sentence. "Look, I already suspected {{player's name}} Day 1". By not attaching a reason he just showed that he was trying to find someone quickly to get suspicion on without real effort, and it makes it highly unlikely that he foresaw such a situation.

Sorry, I can't agree with that analysis. post #258 shows me that Patriots was very much aware of the possibility of distancing.

Point conceded. I think this is just going to be WIFOM, but with such blatant pointing it out:

And inb4 "now he just trying to distance himself away from his partner"

I really don't think that was what he was looking for. This statement implies that he did not want to be seen like he was distancing from his partner, so I doubt that he was trying to get town to believe that he was distancing himself from me.

[Kyiv]

Just pointing out my incompetence here. Sorry guys, I've been distracted lately, and I have things to do today as well. I'll try my best to reread and make posts this weekend.

[pablito]

@MichelSableheart - I don't think there's a replacement being sought in this game. All people who required prods a while back responded... although might need a next set of prods.

Oh. Totally missed that post. Thanks for letting me know. Searching now.