Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[Ythill]

...has dodged comment on the two major wagons for the most part.

It's worse than that. He called all of them (including Leaf) town in #289, same post as his pman vote. That seems odd to me, a player with no inside information should have been entertaining suspicion on at least one of them, especially considering the three choices and their interactions with each other.

[Budja]

I see no problem with my hammer, it was going to be Elli or Kitten and I chose.

I will look into Wicked. I was getting town on him yesterday.

Basically this is a "I'm still here post". Hopefully, I can get into this game soon, and cut the lurking/avoiding.

[pman5595]

yeah, I don't like wicked either, but I'm not going to vote him because all I would get is OMGUS thrown at me :/

I don't see a problem with budja's hammer, personally. I don't view it as any different from the other votes.

[Oman]

If you think Wicked is scum vote for him. So long as your reason isn't OMGUS, you won't get it thrown at you.

[Darkstrike_11]

Moriarty147 replaces Kitten4u

[Ythill]

Hi Moriarty. Thanks for replacing.

I don't view it as any different from the other votes.

How do you view the other votes? Also, paranoid much? If you have non-OMGUS reasons for voting Wick, state them and climb aboard.

[CrashTextDummie]

Hai, sorry for missing my wake-up call.

First instinct is to go back to Kitten4U. I didn't like the way that wagon fell apart one bit, and frankly, I don't understand it at all.

Second instinct is to have a look at the Ellibereth wagon. At a first glance, pman5595 looks the worst to me. He was the main culprit when it came to derailing the K4U wagon, and I don't like the particularities of his Elli-vote. He voted him for acting "too weird, too scummy for too long", which strikes me as exactly the kind of thing scum would do to blow a post like Elli's Post 250, which really wasn't any kind of major scumtell, out of proportion.

I also don't like Thesp on the wagon. It's usually a bad sign when he's on a town lynch. He seems to be too much on cruise control for my comfort, the fact that he agreed with the guy he was lynching (!) on who to pursue today and promptly followed through when the day started rubs me the wrong way. His play in general reminds me of the last time I played a game he was scum in.

I don't really have a problem with how Sotty7 got on the wagon, but looking back, I do have a problem with her behavior towards Kitten4U at the hight of her wagon, namely the fact that she very much wanted to hear a claim from Kitten, but wasn't willing to add her vote to the cast when she very much had the chance a little earlier.

Budja's hammer doesn't bother me too much, since I generally approve of hammering people who claim vanilla (the fact that I didn't see any reason to wagon Elli to that point to begin with notwithstanding). I do have some carry-over suspicions of him from yesterday, but I have to review those in lieu of recent developements.

Oman and Ythill don't look particularly interesting to me at this point.

I will reread the game tomorrow and expand on those thoughts in addition to analysing the rest of the players.

Since Ythill is asking for it:

@ CTD: Why six points on your list? by my count there was only 3 (1-3 were the same thing, 5-6 too) and #4 is very vague. Were you intentionally trying to fluff up the case?

You suck at counting, although admittedly, I could have used some clearer words. 1 and 2 are not the same. Kitten had a weak case on Leaf, and ignored people who did

actual

scummy stuff. In addition to that, she also ignored the behavior she was accusing Leaf of from other players. Point 3 is also not the same, though it's obviously related to 1. I generally consider it scummy when people overstate their case and push it relentlessly despite the fact that the flaws in it have been pointed out. Overconfident town usually doesn't happen until there's actually something to be confident about.

Finally, 5 and 6 are not the same either. She did provide a defense besides the tunnel-vision excuse, and I didn't find it convincing. Hence why it's a seperate point.

Anything else?

vote: pman5595

[Thesp]

He seems to be too much on cruise control for my comfort, the fact that he agreed with the guy he was lynching (!) on who to pursue today and promptly followed through when the day started rubs me the wrong way.

I was pretty conflicted when Ellibereth wanted to turn on Budja, I must admit, because Budja is indeed at the top of my radar.

ConfidAnon's contribution to the game was terrible, and Budja has kept up the pace. The Leafsnail vote from ConfidAnon was awful, as was from Budja. Budja was scum well before his hammer on Ellibereth (particularly when he distances from his own vote). Happy with my vote on Budja.

[Ythill]

Anything else?

Not at the moment. I'm looking forward to you commenting on Wick, once you get around to it.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back and catching up.

[Leafsnail]

I'd quite like to see Moriarty's take on all this, although the replacement messes up my read somewhat. Wick seems to have been behind for quite some time too.

I was pretty conflicted when Ellibereth wanted to turn on Budja, I must admit, because Budja is indeed at the top of my radar.

If this is the case, why were you on the Ellibereth wagon?

yeah, I don't like wicked either, but I'm not going to vote him because all I would get is OMGUS thrown at me :/

Pman, this is scummy. Town wouldn't bother to cover themselves in this way - after all, they need to catch scum, and if they won't vote them, they won't get them lynched. Scum, on the other hand, does not care and just wants to avoid scrutiny. Also, what kind of read do you have on Budja?

[Sotty7]

I don't really have a problem with how Sotty7 got on the wagon, but looking back, I do have a problem with her behavior towards Kitten4U at the hight of her wagon, namely the fact that she very much wanted to hear a claim from Kitten, but wasn't willing to add her vote to the cast when she very much had the chance a little earlier.

It wasn't until Kitten took the time to actually explain her thinking that I thought she could be town. I found Elli's reaction to her wagon and wanting a claim/wagoning was much worse than my bad feelings about her so I chose an Elli vote over a Kitten vote.

Why the pman vote?

[Moriarty147]

Just got around to properly reading this thread, should have a post up within a couple hours.

[Budja]

The only points of wicked's case that interest me are pman's semi-contradictory attack on Elli for being VI.
But I think this is more of a newb-tell than a scum-tell.

So no, I don't think pman is a good lynch.
---
Now for wicked..

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 363

Budja (2): Leafsnail, Thesp
Wickedestjr (2): Oman, Ythill
pman5595 (2): Wickedestjr, CrashTextDummie
Moriarty147 (1): Sotty7

Not Voting: Budja, pman5595, Moriarty147

With 10 Players, a majority of 6 is needed for a lynch. The deadline is 2pm, 11th of February 2010 (GMT).

I would very much like to see the rate of posts pick up a bit. A lot of people are just posting saying that they will "catch up later", and not a lot of actual progress is being made. The only player who can legitimately use this excuse is Moriarty for replacing. Get involved people!

[Oman]

Wicked wagon needs more votes. That could pick up posting.

[Leafsnail]

The only points of wicked's case that interest me are pman's semi-contradictory attack on Elli for being VI.
But I think this is more of a newb-tell than a scum-tell.

So no, I don't think pman is a good lynch.
---
Now for wicked..

So no comments on any of the accusations against you? And if the arguments against Elli were flawed, why did you hammer him? And is that really the ONLY thing on this entire thread you find interesting?

This post raises far more questions than it answers, Budja.

[Budja]

p-man's arguments were flawed.
I didn't like Elli's later actions and thought him the best choice.

Most accusation on me revolve around my lack of content (IIRC). Only one way to fix that and its not be starting an argument.
---
...and there is more to look at but I have to look over it properly when I am in the correct mood. I'll look over Wicked by tonight and have some more out.

[Ythill]

Wicked wagon needs more votes. That could pick up posting.

This.

Really, what I want is for Wick to respond to the votes on him.

[Oman]

He won't because this game is full of pussies that don't vote or wagon, and when they do there is no threat because everyone knows they won't lynch.

I feel like I'm wasting my goddamn time here.

[Oman]

He won't because this game is full of pussies that don't vote or wagon, and when they do there is no threat because everyone knows they won't lynch.

I feel like I'm wasting my goddamn time here.

[Thesp]

Work and life have been crazy busy lately - I'm expecting to get a post in late tonight or early early tomorrow. Thanks for your patience.

[Sotty7]

Moriarty is also slacking. He said he had read the thread already but still nothing. I could move over to Wicked I guess, either way this lurking is getting way out of hand.

[Wickedestjr]

This feels very out of the blue. I just scanned through your posts and you call him a hypocrite once, but that's it.

You're right. It was out of the blue. I realized I hadn't been giving pman a good enough look and after reading him in iso decided he was extremely scummy looking. I honestly had no idea I was going to place my vote on him the morning of the day I did.

How? Do you have other examples? The only experience I recall with Ellibereth is very recent and very interrupted, but is extremely dissimilar to how he played when he was town.

My town read is mostly because of gut, but we seemed to be in agreement with a few things, for example, he thought Kitten was town around (maybe even before) I did. I also had trouble imagining him behaving the way he was as scum.

I think the case makes sense to a certain degree and the first point is very valid, but you slipped in a lot of null points, semantics, and rhetoric. If you're really 95% sure he's scum, then you're seriously overreacting.

Can you please show me the null points, semantics, and rhetoric?


@pman's response to my case: Point 1, I find it odd that you were so sure about Leaf being scum, but didn't have any idea about who was scum. You would have good reason to not look for scum as scum. That would be because you were scum. It's much easier to find townies, because you know who's town as scum.

Point 2, alright.

Point 3, alright.

Point 4, not alright. What was the purpose of your vote when Ellibereth said he wasn't joking? Seemed useless after that.

Kitten has, ironically, moved up my scum list. Her fail-to-vote-elli post was exactly the sort of scummy waffling and staling I was looking for when I asked for the hammer to be delayed.

Why?

Wick, however, has taken the cake. I gave him kind of a free ride yesterday but rereading him was very interesting. 1: There was a lot of waffling, 2: throwing about suspicions, and 3: questions that never lead to conclusions, like he was trying to look like a good scumhunter. I didn't like the tone of his L-1 kitten unvote or the way he 4: kept himself "busy" while keeping clear of the elli wagon.

1: What?
2: Really? Examples? Why is that scummy anyway?
3: Examples?
4: Can you elaborate on this point?


I'll try to finish catching up tomorrow. Sorry for falling behind. Here are my reads just so you know where I stand:


Town:

Leafsnail
CrashTextDummie
Kitten
Sotty7

Neutral:

Ythill
Budja


Scum:

Thesp
pman
Oman


The neutral players have done hardly anything townie, but haven't done anything scummy either.

Oman is in scum mostly because I get the vibe he is not contributing much but trying to appear like he is. I'd have to pinpoint where I get that feeling though. I may do so when I'm done catching.

I think Thesp may be scum, because he seems to be playing differently then he has in the past when he was town, and I also haven't really been impressed with any of his posts.

[Leafsnail]

p-man's arguments were flawed.
I didn't like Elli's later actions and thought him the best choice.

Most accusation on me revolve around my lack of content (IIRC). Only one way to fix that and its not be starting an argument.
---
...and there is more to look at but I have to look over it properly when I am in the correct mood. I'll look over Wicked by tonight and have some more out.

Well, no, not really. It's the way you threw the vote on a wagon while distancing yourself from it, the way you vaguely attacked me yesterday without conviction. Also, you're now lying.

Not fully convinced but certainly a better lynch than kitten.

Yet in your latest post you seem to imply that you were pretty damn sure. Why the change?