Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:21 pm

Post by Zhero »

TheButtonmen wrote: @Zhero; What do you think of the spate between TQO, Jack and SIR_Cynaide?
I'm getting a pretty town-vs.-town read on Jack and Sir C.. I think I understand where both of them are coming from and I'm not seeing any big tells either way.

TQO, on the other hand, is looking a bit shifty. His suspicion of Jack is unexplained and his PR claim in 164 is kind of out of nowhere. Your note of his exaggeration is also interesting.
Unvote. Vote: The Quintastic One


TQO: what's your experience with Mafia?
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:24 pm

Post by Zhero »

TheButtonmen wrote: @Zhero; What do you think of the spate between TQO, Jack and SIR_Cynaide?
I'm getting a pretty town-vs.-town read on Jack and Sir C.. I think I understand where both of them are coming from and I'm not seeing any big tells either way.

TQO, on the other hand, is looking a bit shifty. His suspicion of Jack is unexplained and his PR claim in 164 is kind of out of nowhere. Your note of his exaggeration is also interesting.
Unvote. Vote: The Quintastic One


TQO: what's your experience with Mafia?
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:33 pm

Post by StrangerCoug »

Jack wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote:That I was looking for something specific in the ISO read is conceded and implied in my vote post, but I didn't find what I was looking for.
I said you weren't paying attention during the game, and didn't do an ISO reread. My claim was that you just ISO'd me, went through the first few posts until you could find something you could say was suspicious, and then quit your reading. I gave proof that you didn't read the rest of the ISO. But you made claims like "you never commented on this" and now "I didn't find what I was looking for" implies that you read the whole ISO.
I already said that I, not you, am the one that did not make a comment. Quote me where I did otherwise if you want me to continue this discussion, because I no longer believe you to have misinterpreted me, but rather misrepresented me.
Jack wrote:Looking for a specific "scummy sounding" post in an ISO read, without doing due diligence, is scummy whether you conceded to it or not. I don't see where you conceded to it anyway:
StrangerCoug wrote:
Jack wrote:
unvote:sir cyanide,vote:stranger coug


You didn't do an ISO read on me, but you are claiming to.
If I didn't do an ISO read on you, I would not be getting on myself for missing it for so long. I consider making a mental note of something and not commenting on it until several pages later to be cheap unless you were V/LA or otherwise not in the thread. I've made quite a number of posts since the quote I made, if I'm not mistaken so I can't say I was V/LA or not in the thread.

TL;DR version: I call OMGUS.

Unvote: The Quintastic One
and demote to an
HoS
Vote: Jack
What this seems to say is that you wouldn't have commented on something from a few pages back unless you were V/LA. And that if you hadn't really done an ISO read you wouldn't be getting on yourself for missing that post.
Oops—I think it was the post of mine before that. The first post where I talk about the setup speculation.
Jack wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote: I understand that you're not giving it serious support, but why the hell did you post a setup theory anyway?
Are you not reading the posts even now that I went through and picked them out for you? :?: :?:

Ironically, this is the best defense you could have given.
If I were not reading, I would not have typed "I understand that you're not giving it serious support". Now answer me.
Zhero wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote: That I was looking for something specific in the ISO read is conceded and implied in my vote post, but I didn't find what I was looking for.
What were you looking for?
I could have sworn that he made a post that indicated that he seemed to know that there was a doc that would protect the cop tonight. Must have been someone else that said that.
Zhero wrote:I'm not sure I'm unerstanding your point here. Why is proposing a game setup (especially one he acknowledges in the same post to be made up) scummy?
Rolefishing, mainly. Also, scum familiar with game balance would have a better idea of the other possible roles in the game than a VT. If you were a Mafia role cop, would you be led to believe that power roles exist on the town side also? I would.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:41 pm

Post by Jack »

StrangerCoug wrote:I already said that I, not you, am the one that did not make a comment.
You're right, I did misread that part. You said "I'm surprised
I
haven't commented", which is a weird thing to say.
Oops—I think it was the post of mine before that. The first post where I talk about the setup speculation.
Which one is that?
If I were not reading, I would not have typed "I understand that you're not giving it serious support". Now answer me.
I have answered the question, before you even asked, I answered it when I first posted the speculation.
Jack wrote: The role setup I proposed was just a vanilla setup, I wasn't actually proposing it. That was the point of the "probably not" and where I said
I was just posting it to make the point that speculation wasn't really dangerous.

I still think you didn't read the thread carefully or do much of an ISO read, but given TQO's latest posts and the fact that I myself misread one of the wackier things you said I'll
unvote:StrangerCoug

STranger Coug wrote:I could have sworn that he made a post that indicated that he seemed to know that there was a doc that would protect the cop tonight. Must have been someone else that said that.
That was TQO.
StrangerCoug wrote:f you were a Mafia role cop, would you be led to believe that power roles exist on the town side also? I would.
This isn't a mountainous game, yes? I already said it was a vanilla setup.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:31 pm

Post by The Quintastic One »

TheButtonmen wrote:Can we stop trying to figure out who the cop is?

@Zhero
; What do you think of the spate between TQO, Jack and SIR_Cynaide?
The Quintastic One wrote:And B) If Jack is lynched and he IS the town cop, that's 3 games in a row I've been in where the town cop was lynched on day 1. lol. I don't think I could live down that shame.
Don't lie or exagerate, a common rule used on this site is Lynch all Liars, only in one of your previous games did you lynch a cop D1, the fact that you overexagerated it to that degree makes it look like an appeal to emotion.
Actually I played a South Park Mafia over on a site called Roughkut where we lynched Officer Barbardy on day 1. I don't keep a record of all my previously played games so unless you check out all the sites I play mafia on, you can't possibly get an accurate meta read on me. So combined with my one game on here, and the one game on there, if we lyncehd the town cop on this game that would be 3 in a row. So no lying here.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Post by The Quintastic One »

Zhero wrote:
TheButtonmen wrote: @Zhero; What do you think of the spate between TQO, Jack and SIR_Cynaide?
I'm getting a pretty town-vs.-town read on Jack and Sir C.. I think I understand where both of them are coming from and I'm not seeing any big tells either way.

TQO, on the other hand, is looking a bit shifty. His suspicion of Jack is unexplained and his PR claim in 164 is kind of out of nowhere. Your note of his exaggeration is also interesting.
Unvote. Vote: The Quintastic One


TQO: what's your experience with Mafia?
My experience so far (without going into too many details of currently ongoing games) two newbie games on here (both ongoing, one I replaced out of) this game (ongoing) one finished game on Roughkut, and another ongoing game on Roughkut.

So basically, only one game is officially finished and that's on a completely different website. So I or anyone else shouldn't even be using any current game on this site as meta for or against me.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:43 pm

Post by The Quintastic One »

SIR CYANIDE wrote:Not much I can add to the discussion atm, but @TQO: please watch out with what you post regarding roles and abilities.
But I can hint at my role if I feel I may be in danger of getting lynched right? I just can't directly say what I am.

I just need to clarify that rule so that in case anybodies still interested in that point, I can at least hint at my role and hope that you guys who are more experienced will understand what I am and hopefully unvote. lol.

I only say that this early because I'm not sure how to counter point my suspicions. I've said I was town, I gave my reasons as to why I'm obvtown, and every post I've made has made sense to me in MY mind without sounding scummy to ME. So I can't help it if people are going to misconstrue my posts to the point where they think I'm scummy despite me 100% assuring you, I am town.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:54 pm

Post by AGar »

Luckily for you all, half of my games just hit the night phase, so I've got plenty of time to do a thorough read-through of what I've yet to digest.

If you care to know, I spent Friday afternoon to Saturday night in Boston on a Student Government retreat, and spent Sunday getting settled back down in my apartment which I never really settled into when I moved back to school. Fun times.

Post is going to be a stream-of-consciousness and a lot of different things. Ask me if I need to clarify anything anywhere.

Jack's role-setup guess is bullshit, and should be taken as such.

SIR CYANIDE and Jack, cut the personal insults bullshit.

SIR CYANIDE, you're wrong. Confirmed townies are terrible for scum, and if they don't have a roleblocker, even worse. They limit the lynch pool and force them to pick their NK between a confirmed townie who they can't get lynched or a cop who could investigate them and could be drawing the protection of a roleblocker.

If there are 10 people tomorrow (assuming one kill party, no successful prots and a lynch today), the cop has a 20% or 30% shot at giving us a guaranteed scum. And our odds are either 20% or 30% of hitting scum in a completely random lynch. If a cop investigates an innocent, our chances jump 25% or 38%. That's a big jump.

This scenario doesn't consider that we have a falseclaim (which then the scum have to give us confirmed townies in order to continue their living pretty much).
Zang wrote:I'm not voting because I have 3 suspects, I want to narrow it down farther before I vote, only 2 of my 3 suspects can be scum if that. I want to have more solid information before I vote.
Speculation like this is bad.

What I will go out and say is mini's generally have 2 or 3 scum, depending on the roles and such. So it is safe to assume that. Other than that, it is not safe to assume any roles' presence or absence in a closed setup.

Also, this post shows a fear of committing, which is generally an indicator of scum.
StrangerCoug wrote:Why are we still going on about Jack being a possible cop? You know that you're painting an NK target on him, right?
If he's a VT, that's great. And why should we ignore it, to be quite frank? I mean, ffs, it's a claim. This ISN'T something that should be ignored.

@Mod: Please prod/replace Vivi57, and can we get more frequent VCs? Either the top of every page or every 24 hours would be nice.


My current thought is one scum is caught between Coug and/or Buttonman - both of them want to keep discussion regarding the claim silent. I understand people dislike rolefishing. I personally don't care, but I also like mountainous setups, and rolefishing can actually hurt scum if you have solid pro-town VTs, you then manipulate their kill pattern, so it can be fun.

Anyways. I'm gonna go with TheButtonmen. He has had very limited posting in which he hasn't provided much content, jumped to a terrible conclusion about something (we aren't the only site in the world that plays Mafia) and is trying to squelch what I feel should be well-embraced discussion.

Vote: TheButtonmen
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:29 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

@Agar :Golf Clap:, Next time with your free time I would recommend reading the thread before making a catch up post. There was no claim and yes rolefishing is bad for town.
The Quintastic One wrote:I can at least hint at my role and hope that you guys who are more experienced will understand what I am and hopefully unvote.
Okay, if you are town you just basically made yourself a NK target by saying you have a power role, good job.
The Quintastic One wrote: I've said I was town, I gave my reasons as to why I'm obvtown, and every post I've made has made sense to me in MY mind without sounding scummy to ME. So I can't help it if people are going to misconstrue my posts to the point where they think I'm scummy despite me 100% assuring you, I am town.
Because you 100% assuring us your town make us believe you why? Your playing shoddily, your rolefishing and keep trying to tell us how town you are. If you are town then scumhunt, help the town don't just defend yourself by accusing everyone suscpious of you.
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:34 am

Post by SIR CYANIDE »

AGar wrote:SIR CYANIDE and Jack, cut the personal insults bullshit.
It was me and TQO. Not me and Jack.
SIR CYANIDE, you're wrong. Confirmed townies are terrible for scum, and if they don't have a roleblocker, even worse. They limit the lynch pool and force them to pick their NK between a confirmed townie who they can't get lynched or a cop who could investigate them and could be drawing the protection of a roleblocker.
No, I am not wrong. If a townie is confirmed you have the confirmed townie and the cop who said so. A simple game of WIFOM starts: will the Doc (if present at all) protect the cop, or the townie?
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:02 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

Votecount 3:


Jack - (4) – PaltryExcuse, Sir Cyanide, Zang, StrangerCoug
The Quintastic One – (2) – ConfidAnon, Zhero
Zang - (1) - Vivi57
TheButtonmen - (1) - AGar

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Prodding Vivi57.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:32 am

Post by The Quintastic One »

TheButtonmen wrote:
Okay, if you are town you just basically made yourself a NK target by saying you have a power role, good job.
I wouldn't count my ability as a power role per se. It's an ability, but not incredible. But that's irrelevent. I'd be MORE than happy to paint myself as the Nightkill target in order to give the Cop time to investigate.

I don't care how I get confirmed townie status, whether through investigation or an unfortunate night kill. Point would be that I would be confirmed townie and everyone who was suspicious of me can have a closer eye looked at them for still lingering on a confirmed townies scumminess rather than actually scumhunt.

You can choose to believe me or not, skepticism is the name of the game. But if you still believe me to be scum and I'd love be able to say "I told you so" at the end of the game.

As for The Button Man, there wasn't A DIRECT claim, but it was borderline roleclaiming by Jack. Which I still believe to be 70% true, so I'm counting it as a roleclaim until proven otherwise.
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:47 am

Post by The Quintastic One »

Crap! I just had a big ol' post strung together with a vote attached to it, but for some reason I got this "fatal error" screen and all my argument just disappeared. Fuck. It's a scum ploy!


I guess I'll try to paraphrase it, because I don't feel like typing all that up again.

I like Agars renewing of the town discussing regarding Jacks possible claim. I felt alone as the newbie amongst a sea of more experienced players who were trying to squash the discussion so I like how at least SOMEONE agrees with me that Jack could be the cop.

I agree with the suspicions of TheButtonMen & Strangercoug, since they both seem pretty scared of the possibility that we've already confirmed the cop and one townie. Notice I said possibility, not guaranteed.

But either way, I would vote for TBM, but I feel like StrangerCoug has been more active trying to stiffle the town discussion regarding Jacks claim. Sooo

Vote: Strangercoug
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:48 am

Post by AGar »

TheButtonmen wrote:@Agar :Golf Clap:, Next time with your free time I would recommend reading the thread before making a catch up post. There was no claim and yes rolefishing is bad for town.
Since when wasn't asking people who wanted to be investigated a soft claim. Sure, he didn't come out and say "Hey motherfuckers, I'm the cop" but it's still a soft claim nonetheless. It should be discussed.

And I'm not going to even bother addressing your narrow-mindedness. So whatever.

@SIR CYANIDE - Jack called you "SIR ASPERGERS" and some other shit was slung.

And you do realize if the doc (assuming we have one) is forced to pick between the cop and townie, then the scum also have to guess around to try and figure out what the potential protection is.

@Mod: Thanks for the VC and prod :D
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:56 am

Post by SIR CYANIDE »

@SIR CYANIDE - Jack called you "SIR ASPERGERS" and some other shit was slung.
Ah yes, lol. That went below my radar, I actually found it a bit entertaining (I myself like to throw around with stuff like asperger's, dyslexia, ADHD etc. too) but I can imagine some people taking offense hehe.
And you do realize if the doc (assuming we have one) is forced to pick between the cop and townie, then the scum also have to guess around to try and figure out what the potential protection is.
Yeh, but that's a guessing game I'd rather not play.
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:25 am

Post by Vivi57 »

Oh wow, I completely forgot about this game. I only was reminded by an email that told me I had a new pm here.

This is my first time playing and I feel like I'm surrounded by players much better than me, but it seems like sir cyanide looks like mafia. It's almost like all he's doing is arguing. I can't really place my finger on it, but I just have a really bad feeling about him.

so.
unvote; Vote: sir cyanide


(did I vote correctly?)
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:38 am

Post by The Quintastic One »

did you have a vote on somebody else before you unvoted? Because if you didn't then unvoting isn't necessary for your first vote of each day.
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:32 am

Post by Zang »

He had a random vote on me
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:06 pm

Post by PaltryExcuse »

@AGar: Why do you feel TheButtonMen has stifled conversation?

@TheButtonMen: You haven't voted for TQO despite your insistence to Jack that he should ISO TQO and vote him? Why didn't you vote for him if you find him suspicious?

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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:34 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

Mod:
I voted TQO, please edit the Vote Count
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:41 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

EBYOP: Nevermind I apperntly just typed The Quintastic One in bold (Post #51, Page 3)

Sorry about that,
Vote: The Quintastic One
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:06 pm

Post by The Quintastic One »

I don't think you really believe I'm scum. It would pretty much be ridiculous at this point. I've willingly offered myself for investigations AND in your words painted myself for a nightkill target by hinting that I have a power role that's not that powerful.

So at this point I think you're scum trying to lynch me so that you don't have to worry about choosing between the cop and the innocent townie. Call it an OMGUS vote all you want, but I am officially convinced you're scum.

Unvote, Vote: TheButtonmen
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:10 pm

Post by The Quintastic One »

EBWOP: Choosing between the cop and the innocent townie for a nightkill.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:37 pm

Post by SIR CYANIDE »

TQO seems to feel the need to point out he's town in every post, which is something that I find suspicious.
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:37 pm

Post by SIR CYANIDE »

Oh, I forgot:

unvote
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