Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[Narninian]

I think Susan probably has a role, but I have no idea what it would be.

I don't think we should push for futher details today, though (unless there is a counterclaim of course).

I'll

Unvote: BV310

since nobody is following that wagon right now.

[wolframnhart]

I just don't like the fact that after claiming Susan, he tells us "it means power role" it is just suspicious to me, however any counter claims or discussion about it is welcomed.

[manho]

at first, i think "susan means a power role" is a common knowledge. but after a second thought, i think i should make it clearer. i'm not going to claim my role, it had better be a secret.

[wolframnhart]

i don't want you to claim your role, just saying i don't like the way you posted "it means a power role" kinda snotty but that is up to a persons opinion.

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

Final.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

Starbuck (3)

- bv310, manho, kikuchiyo

Riceballtail (1)

- HackerHuck

bv310 (1)

- MadCrawdad

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (0)

-

HackerHuck (0)

-

Papa Zito (1)

- Sibelius

wolframnhart (0)

-

Narninian (0)

-

manho (4)

- Riceballtail, Papa Zito, Starbuck, dybeck

dybeck (0)

-

Sibelius (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- wolframnhart, Narninian

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is January 27, ~ 12:30 am MST.

[kikuchiyo]

To be clear:

I ultimately realize it is each players right to make up their own minds in regards to counterclaiming, but if manho is fakeclaiming, I don't think the real Susan should come forward. If I am not mistaken, Susan was the older girl, which would make her more likely to have vig and/or investigative powers(I think the young one would be the healer/protector). Therefore, if manho is lieing, the real Susan already has a guilty investigation to work with(manho) and can claim at a later time as necessary after they have had some time to work. If Susan turns up dead, we lynch manho. If manho is Susan, then that will play out in its own way.

Starbuck is the obvscum imo. Let's lynch her and move on. No sense in getting more claims on day 1.

Starbuck, if you are town then I'm sorry, but I think this is how it has to be.

[wolframnhart]

I can see your logic kiku, i would just hate for star to be hammered, flip town, and then the wagon would be made of people that A)voted her to begin with for finding her scummy and B)People that voted to make sure the real Susan doesn't counter claim and out herself

unfortunately I cannot think of a way to not out the real susan if manho is lying so it would be in towns best interest to lynch starbuck and hopefully catch a scum or if not at least save a power role.

unvote, vote Starbuck

[Starbuck]

Let it be known that kiku is thus refusing my request to provide other suspects.

This is ignoring which is scummy.

[Starbuck]

It's not how it HAS to be Kiku.

You just have a vendetta and you are refusing to STOP TUNNELING.

[Starbuck]

Btw, I'm not scum.

I have my normal Vanilla Townie role that I get every fucking game because Starbuck can NEVER land any cool roles.

Trust me, I wish I had something decent. I wish it every game, but it barely, if ever, happens.

[dybeck]

This is a pickle... Rumblebuffin or Susan... Rumblebuffin or Susan...

Hmm...

unvote, vote: Starbuck

[dybeck]

To be clear:

I ultimately realize it is each players right to make up their own minds in regards to counterclaiming, but if manho is fakeclaiming, I don't think the real Susan should come forward. If I am not mistaken, Susan was the older girl, which would make her more likely to have vig and/or investigative powers(I think the young one would be the healer/protector). Therefore, if manho is lieing, the real Susan already has a guilty investigation to work with(manho) and can claim at a later time as necessary after they have had some time to work. If Susan turns up dead, we lynch manho. If manho is Susan, then that will play out in its own way.

I think this is a really odd thing to say. If there's a real Susan, of course they should claim. I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

And we'd have a guaranteed scum caught - which is kinda the point of the game...

[Papa Zito]

I think this is a really odd thing to say. If there's a real Susan, of course they should claim. I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

And we'd have a guaranteed scum caught - which is kinda the point of the game...

I agree with this completely. If there's a real Susan out there, please counter.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

Starbuck (5)

- bv310, manho, kikuchiyo, wolframnhart, dybeck

Riceballtail (1)

- HackerHuck

bv310 (1)

- MadCrawdad

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (0)

-

HackerHuck (0)

-

Papa Zito (1)

- Sibelius

wolframnhart (0)

-

Narninian (0)

-

manho (3)

- Riceballtail, Papa Zito, Starbuck

dybeck (0)

-

Sibelius (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- Narninian

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is January 27, ~ 12:30 am MST.

[HackerHuck]

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind a partial claim. Don't we want all of the information out there before we get a counter and before we go to night and the mafia have a chance to talk?

[kikuchiyo]

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind a partial claim. Don't we want all of the information out there before we get a counter and before we go to night and the mafia have a chance to talk?

Why don't we just have anyone with a power role claim? You can't honestly be this dense, can you? If manho is Susan Pevensie, then we don't want scum to know what she can do. It produces a protective layer of wifom for her to work behind.

Dybeck and PZ: How many games have you played where one scum is lynched day 1 and town wins? It is certainly not an overwhelming majority imo. If manho isn't Susan and Susan exists(which we have no reason to doubt at this time), then we already have one scum caught and the real Susan knows it. Either she counterclaims later with possible night action results, or she counterclaims now possibly jeapordizing her ability to work at night. I'd rather her stay hidden for now. If she turns up dead then we auto lynch manho. There is really little benefit to outingher other than lynching scum on day 1. I don't believe this is utterly necessary as the town win condition encompasses much more than one single correct lynch. Anyhow, its not our decision. In short, if manho is fakeclaiming then he is already caught. Lynching him today may give scum enough information to cripple town's night abilities. We have enough information to lynch. Let's do it.

Starbuck: I have no vendetta. I like playing with you. I just happen to think you are scum.

[Starbuck]

I think you need to go back and read our last game if you are really town.

Because your read is completely off.


You said you read me as scum. That you do so now and you did so then when I was town.



Or how about those cases that I requested of you?

If kiku flips a non-town role at some point, I can see why she did not adhere to my request. But as town, she has no reason not to adhere. It's very hypocritical that she request something of me that she's not ready to do herself.

[Narninian]

I think this is a really odd thing to say. If there's a real Susan, of course they should claim. I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

And we'd have a guaranteed scum caught - which is kinda the point of the game...

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I guess my other post didnt submit

Vote: Starbuck

We should wait for sufficient time for a counterclaim before the hammer vote though.

[HackerHuck]

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind a partial claim. Don't we want all of the information out there before we get a counter and before we go to night and the mafia have a chance to talk?

Why don't we just have anyone with a power role claim? You can't honestly be this dense, can you? If manho is Susan Pevensie, then we don't want scum to know what she can do. It produces a protective layer of wifom for her to work behind.

I guess I must be really dense. How does WIFOM help the town and why wouldn't the scum kill him regardless of what he can do?

[kikuchiyo]

I guess I must be really dense. How does WIFOM help the town and why wouldn't the scum kill him regardless of what he can do?

Hypothetically, lets say manho is Susan. Let's say Susan is a power role. Let's say manho says "I'm doc". Now scum can be fairly confident that manho can be killed. Thus they most likely submit "NK: Manho."

Let's say manho says: "I'm cop." Now scum can look elsewhere to find a possible doc, knowing that manho will most likely draw protection from the doc. Or, mafia might have a watcher and submit, "Watch: Manho."

By not revealing his power, manho forces scum to make their night action decisions off of speculation rather than facts. Which would you rather have: the chance of a muffed nk/mafia action, or a map to victory for scum?

Again Star, 417 seems to misrepresent my entire case. Your meta is null tell at this point. You are being lynched for your play in this game. I have not implied nor stated otherwise. I have made my stance pretty clear.

[MadCrawdad]

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I guess my other post didnt submit

Vote: Starbuck

We should wait for sufficient time for a counterclaim before the hammer vote though.

As far as waiting for a counterclaim, I suspect that we won't be seeing any Rumblebuffin VT counterclaims.

While I'm willing to hammer Starbuck by deadline, to ensure a lynch, I encourage folks to take another look at bv310. The guy has:

1. Jumped on the 'L-3 is bad' immediately after Starbuck ->

opportunistic

2. Immediately backed off 'L-3 is bad' when Starbuck caught heat for it ->

wishy-washy

3. Avoids answering direct questions from multiple players
4. Admittedly votes Starbuck because he 'trusts dybeck' ->

following

[Narninian]

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I guess my other post didnt submit

Vote: Starbuck

We should wait for sufficient time for a counterclaim before the hammer vote though.

As far as waiting for a counterclaim, I suspect that we won't be seeing any Rumblebuffin VT counterclaims.

While I'm willing to hammer Starbuck by deadline, to ensure a lynch, I encourage folks to take another look at bv310. The guy has:

1. Jumped on the 'L-3 is bad' immediately after Starbuck ->

opportunistic

2. Immediately backed off 'L-3 is bad' when Starbuck caught heat for it ->

wishy-washy

3. Avoids answering direct questions from multiple players
4. Admittedly votes Starbuck because he 'trusts dybeck' ->

following

Waiting for a counterclaim for Susan of course, not rumblebuffin. I actually agree with you on bv310 and that is why I had a vote on him, but forcing a third claim today might help scum more than it would help town. Choosing between a Vanilla townie tertiary character, and an uncontested Susan claim (power role to boot) seems like we have little choice.

[wolframnhart]

@Madcrawdad

Oh i have not forgotten bv310, so no worries there.

[dybeck]

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind a partial claim. Don't we want all of the information out there before we get a counter and before we go to night and the mafia have a chance to talk?

Maybe if we were in two minds about whether to still lynch Manho despite the character claim, a full roleclaim would help make our minds up. Personally, the character claim is enough for me. I'd rather not feed mafia any more info than we already have. Susan may well be a power role, but not a textbook doc or cop claim, so could be something extremely useful or extremely not-very-useful.

I don't think I need to know as much as scum do.

Dybeck and PZ: How many games have you played where one scum is lynched day 1 and town wins? It is certainly not an overwhelming majority imo. If manho isn't Susan and Susan exists(which we have no reason to doubt at this time), then we already have one scum caught and the real Susan knows it. Either she counterclaims later with possible night action results, or she counterclaims now possibly jeapordizing her ability to work at night. I'd rather her stay hidden for now. If she turns up dead then we auto lynch manho. There is really little benefit to outingher other than lynching scum on day 1. I don't believe this is utterly necessary as the town win condition encompasses much more than one single correct lynch. Anyhow, its not our decision. In short, if manho is fakeclaiming then he is already caught. Lynching him today may give scum enough information to cripple town's night abilities. We have enough information to lynch. Let's do it.

I kinda get your point. But a counterclaimed manho lynch gives us 100% chance of getting scum today or tomorrow. Whilst I'm extremely happy with a Starbuck lynch, even I'll admit that it can't possibly be a 100% surety without some rock solid proof. And I foresee that a Starbuck mislynch would be, frankly, a disaster.

In any event, this whole conversation is academic since it's entirely in the hands of the hypothetical 'real' Susan to make up their own mind about it.

The more we talk about it, the more scum can narrow down who this increasingly hypothetical real-Susan is, and avoid them for nightkill.