Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

DedicatedScribe,Vanilla Townie, shot night 3

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

vote: budja
fos: OJ

any questions look at yesterdays notes

[Ojanen]

DedicatedScribe,Vanilla Townie, shot night 3

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

QFT.
Also, a huge lol for myself for getting owned so bad (here's hoping tragi will stay out of that comedy).
I haven't reread very much in the night, will do so and post later today.

[Kise]

I didn't even welcome him to the game.

I'm down for a quicklynch, but Budja

did

vote for SC, even if not a strong reason. I think that credits him more than OJ.

Hewitt + CS + Neto pair?

Scary..

I am not gonna switch my vote tonight.
If I had to do it right now between Budja and Serial it would be Budja, based on pairing possibilities inside Kise/DLA/Serial/Budja(/Scigatt).

Who is Budja paired to, in your opinion?

Blah.

vote: Budja

(don't ask.)

Um...

[Ellibereth]

Poor dedicated scribe.
Oj, did you see an example of Serial using that type of breadcrumbing before? Or someone else? I'm curious how you knew what he meant.

[dramonic]

The mod would like to inform the players that since I'm not a sadistic creep, DS was informed the moment I received the kill action on him.

[Ojanen]

Oj, did you see an example of Serial using that type of breadcrumbing before? Or someone else? I'm curious how you knew what he meant.

I think it's a fairly known easy way of bottling up a message for future on mafiascum to use the first letters of each word. It's hard to remember specific instances. One that did come to my mind was that Bridges&Baloons used it somewhere in Tofu mafia. I've taken it to be more like this general part of mafiascum culture. If it's important to you I can try to strain my memory to remember more specific instances, I skim a lot of games I don't play in for fun which makes it hard to pinpoint to specific memories of posts in specific games.
When someone claims a townread on another player in this setup and codes instead of saying why, the first logical thought is that they think said player a mason. Looking at Serial's code as an answer to Scigatt suspicion, it ended in the letter combination "siam" which is an obvious instant association to "Scigatt is a mason" in the context.
It makes more sense to not be so direct and not use the first but for example the second letter of each word but the sentence starting with "Itt" brought the immediate association to the super common

In this thread

I think that.
Yeah, that was roughly the thought process. I think I had several guesses on what the remaining couple of letters in the middle were but overall his code seemed clear.

Who is Budja paired to, in your opinion?

Do you mean was?
I think I could see him more easily paired to you at that point; I think looking at scumpairs with Serial or Budja had the illusion to me that both were not so easy to see but Serial was harder.

Blah.

vote: Budja

(don't ask.)

Um...

I think this is taken from the point when I took my vote off for some hours and then put back before others came back?
Well I never was very comfortable voting for Budja. I only switched my vote from you when the situation had been deadlocked to them by the rest of the town for a while. I mean if Budja's the last scum with Serial, my play was good for the single part of being effective D1 and getting Neto lynched and I've been horribly wrong about most things ever since. Quite clearly my worst townplay ever if that's the case. But I didn't feel good about Budja-scum, I think there's a post in my iso that's a reply to farside about the things I liked and the things in didn't like about the hewitt case. I had lost confidence about Serial-town too. I was looking at them again, felt equally miserable about my gameview, decided again that ok, Budja is the better lynch since I could see him somewhat better as scum with people, thought about a couple of things that seemed inconvenient to hypo-Serial-scum (barracading suspicion on Scigatt on that day, going after silent people D3 based on patterns resulting to less convincing cases, looking worse for it and matching my meta while doing it) and just thought fuck it and revoted.

[Ellibereth]

Funny as hell if Neto slipped both his buddies here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 36#2002236

[Ellibereth]

EBWOP: Oh wait, Yarmond = Kise, nvm. >.<

[Ojanen]

Yeah looks like I don't have energy to reread today as much as I wanted today, it's late in my timezone.
The very late developments of D3 I haven't relooked at among other things, but Budja would seem to be the obvious choice for scum before that.
It's incredibly hard for me to see farside, Elli or DLA as scum, I should check Kise once more but the steering by Serial to go from writing out justification to suspecting hewitt to easily voting Kise would paint out hewitt-scum, plus the early supposed bussing of Kise and Serial just before the night would have been a little strangely binding for two people that are gonna be able to nighttalk in a sec for the first time.
And Serial's earlier comments about hewitt paint a connection. Says in his catchup that hewitt's not a bad lynch but gives no reason why. Later day 2

I don't get DLA going over to Hewitt. I don't think that Albert actually believed Hewitt based on the claim, because quite frankly I don't see much reason why scum would claim mason - it's demonstrably false and if it even required a counter claim (a 3-man voting block and no other masons coming forward would surely prevent that), all it does is expose a mason, which is hardly fantastic for scum. But whether that was his reason or not, Albert deifnitely seemed to dismiss Hewitt as a possibility for scum, and I'm going to trust that read. Plus Neto was shaping up to hammer Hewitt wasn't he?
Having said that, I'd like Hewitt to get in here, his lack of activity is a contrast to yesterday.

Defends hewitt not-scum for no reason except ABR's read, even though had to belittle ABR's read of self posthumously.
Also tries to connect me to hewitt.
Plus the stuff that connects hewitt to Neto.

He does fit well and I really hope he's scum - even if you end up lynching me first we should win merrily then and my connection to Serial doesn't matter. But I'll reread some more tomorrow just in case any other thoughts seem plausible after all.

[Ojanen]

Yeah looks like I don't have energy to reread today as much as I wanted today, it's late in my timezone.
The very late developments of D3 I haven't relooked at among other things, but Budja would seem to be the obvious choice for scum before that.
It's incredibly hard for me to see farside, Elli or DLA as scum, I should check Kise once more but the steering by Serial to go from writing out justification to suspecting hewitt to easily voting Kise would paint out hewitt-scum, plus the early supposed bussing of Kise and Serial just before the night would have been a little strangely binding for two people that are gonna be able to nighttalk in a sec for the first time.
And Serial's earlier comments about hewitt paint a connection. Says in his catchup that hewitt's not a bad lynch but gives no reason why. Later day 2

I don't get DLA going over to Hewitt. I don't think that Albert actually believed Hewitt based on the claim, because quite frankly I don't see much reason why scum would claim mason - it's demonstrably false and if it even required a counter claim (a 3-man voting block and no other masons coming forward would surely prevent that), all it does is expose a mason, which is hardly fantastic for scum. But whether that was his reason or not, Albert deifnitely seemed to dismiss Hewitt as a possibility for scum, and I'm going to trust that read. Plus Neto was shaping up to hammer Hewitt wasn't he?
Having said that, I'd like Hewitt to get in here, his lack of activity is a contrast to yesterday.

Defends hewitt not-scum for no reason except ABR's read, even though had to belittle ABR's read of self posthumously.
Also tries to connect me to hewitt.
Plus the stuff that connects hewitt to Neto.

He does fit well and I really hope he's scum - even if you end up lynching me first we should win merrily then and my connection to Serial doesn't matter. But I'll reread some more tomorrow just in case any other thoughts seem plausible after all.

[Budja]

Well, farside has ascended to obv town after shifting the lynch.
So its Ojanen or kise for me by elimination.

vote: Oj

, stronger links to SC and SC attacked Kise reasonably hard.

[farside22]

Well, farside has ascended to obv town after shifting the lynch.
So its Ojanen or kise for me by elimination.

vote: Oj

, stronger links to SC and SC attacked Kise reasonably hard.

Explain why you think kise is scum with SC?


@kise I have a long drawn out reason why I think budja is scum over OJ but I will read up on OJ a bit and do a comparison between the 2 tomorrow.

[Budja]

I don't. Hence the Oj vote.

(Note that kise was only an option by elimination)

[farside22]

I don't. Hence the Oj vote.

(Note that kise was only an option by elimination)

you realize that if OJ is lynched and flips town you would be lynched next?

[farside22]

Long post incoming:

Players and votes:
concern: DLA and the defense from neto. CSL voting on DLA and unvoting hewitt for weak reason and following seems more likely that DLA not scum.
DLA had a town read on neto but voted for CSL.
Does a lot of votes but votes for SC at one point not really for great reasons.
Notes that neto defends SC and comments about both mason or scum based on intaction.
Goes after SC hard on day 2.
Does vote for kise for no reason which is a bit odd.

hewitt/budja scum connections:
csl back and forth vote on hewitt

SC said:

I have no idea on hewitt. If I thought ABR was scum, I'd be sure Hewitt was town, but I'm almost certain he's not. The OMGUS is to be expected after an ABR rampage (especially if, as it seems from his post, he didn't quite get what ABR was about). Not the worst lynch in the world, actually. Deserved to have been policy lynched for quoting ABR's entire iso

Go ahead and lynch me. Once I turn town, go for hewitt. If he ends up being town, then go for ABR, as he and hewitt made an argument. If hewitt flips scum, then ABR is town, and then go for DLA.

SC: Also wrote a big case against hewitt/budja but votes for kise for OMGUS reason's. I found he had a case on neto as well but pushed shotty over neto day 1 and that is exactly how day 3 felt.

Neto says he would hammer then votes for eli, then demands a case from ABR to why hewitt is scum.
Neto also talks about CSL policy lynch that never comes through and focas on eli, abr or saber.

Eli concerns: I note that SC had a long post pointing to eli as possible scum but doesnt' put him on his scum list
Also feel like some of SC post is coaching of eli

Ellibereth - your homework is to not play how you've been playing. If you agree with my entire assessment of your play, you are playing in a scummy and unhelpful manner. You aren't a member of the audience, you aren't something waiting to be pushed around by the tides of other people's arguments and opinions. Fire up and find some scum. Make my case not be true, and I won't think you are scum. But I'll give you points for admitting it. Note to hewitt - never discourage players when they admit cases against them. Get frustrated when they refuse to change, not when they acknowledge a negative point agaisnt them.

sc said:
Neto is a worthwhile lynch too. I love that Elli psyched up and did his own work. I'm feeling much better about him. I'll stick with shotty because I think he's scummier, but save my place for the bus if it looks hopeless for him.

Eli going back and forth on the neto wagon.
Neto calls eli a she and talks down to him

Scum read:
Budja/hewitt
OJ

unsure:
DLA
Eli

This statement by neto leans more town but I eli leaves me unsure as does DLA based on game play:

DLA, Elibereth and Saber are easy lynches because they were acting scummy. Therefore, is it not logical that I would find them to be scummy? Should I attack the strongest players because they are not acting scummy and thus aren't easy targets?

Read of town:
kise

My problem with OJ is that she did come on strong after neto day 1 when she replaced in however she follows SC's. It's hard to imagine scum following a scum partner so much but OJ is been wishy washy. My biggest complaint is with OJ and her actions I noticed from day 1 to day 2 and to day 3.
The connections with hewitt/budj in regards to SC and neto which is hard to ignore over and beyond OJ's play

[Budja]

you realize that if OJ is lynched and flips town you would be lynched next?

Maybe, but if I think Oj is the most likely to be the last scum, why shouldn't I take the risk.

I can construct some WIFOMic defences if you like but I can't really say much against your case.
---
Just FYI:
I am confident on Elli as he did a lot to kickstart the Neto case (and with Neto,CSL scum I can't see coaching/busing).
DLA is a lot more gut-based but his play toward known scum does not hint extra knowledge and I suspect he would be bad at hiding it.

[DedicatedScribe]

bah.

That's just...perfect.

Though, I didn't see the mafia had 60 pages b4 I subbed in, so its all okay ^^

[dramonic]

The Twentyeigth Votecount: However YOU spell it!

Budja (1): Farside
Ojanen (1): Budja

Not Voting (4): Elli, Ojanen, Kise, DLA

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Deadline is the 14th at 23:59!

[dramonic]

Also, DLA is getting prodded

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Budja

[farside22]

Vote: Budja

Care to expand a bit on this vote?
And this post is exactly why Eli is bothering me.

[Kise]

Quick question to Ojanen & Budja: Even at the risk of exposing them, have you see a mason claim/softclaim at all? If so, when and where?

[Ojanen]

Quick question to Ojanen & Budja: Even at the risk of exposing them, have you see a mason claim/softclaim at all? If so, when and where?

Wtf? Why the hell would I answer this?

I'm looking to finish the reread tonight.

[Budja]

I second that objection.
What possible insight could that question give you.

[Kise]

I would rather have heard an answer before you both read up on the thread. I just noticed that Dedicated was killed because SC said he thought that slot was the mason.

Easy way or the hard way.

Vote: Budja

FTR I saw the mason claim but I guess it doesn't matter.