Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

I'm starting to notice that a lot of the thread lately is Jack vs. SIR CYANIDE. I'm not really decided on this: while it looks to me like I should have a read on Jack either way, I don't, and I'm leaning frustrated town on SIR CYANIDE.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I'm fine with him having a mistaken impression.

I am not. As town, that is something we want to avoid, it creates confusion. According to me, letting him have this mistaken impression is anti-town.

But this is my point exactly. You are saying that rehashing and explaining the issue is pro town, but I don't have an issue with the rehashing.

Oh, I thought you said you did.

I was noting the contrast between rehashing and joke posting. It's a fairly basic assumption that mafia avoid posting in uncertain situations, instead posting when they feel secure. You can say that it's a weak argument if you want, I would probably post Rolling Eyes and point to the page number. It certainly isn't complete nonsense however, why would try and insist that it was?

First off, I have yet to insist that the contrast-between-posting-argument was complete nonsense (I will now though), I said the complete rehashing was complete nonsense.

Second, that's fucking retarded. You cannot possibly think that's a scum tell.

If we are going to make retarded tells, why does the only word that's been bolded in your post (contrast) consist of letters more found in the word 'town' (t, n, o) than in the word 'mafia' (a)? Are you trying to manipulate us through neurolinguistic programming?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm starting to notice that a lot of the thread lately is Jack vs. SIR CYANIDE. I'm not really decided on this: while it looks to me like I should have a read on Jack either way, I don't, and I'm leaning frustrated town on SIR CYANIDE.

[StrangerCoug]

Is the site acting up, or what? That's the second time I've double-posted in this thread.

[ConfidAnon]

The site must be acting up . . . it's bizarre that your double post would actually get intercepted by Sir Cyanide. xD

[Jack]

I'm starting to notice that a lot of the thread lately is Jack vs. SIR CYANIDE. I'm not really decided on this: while it looks to me like I should have a read on Jack either way, I don't, and I'm leaning frustrated town on SIR CYANIDE.

It's hard to tell if someone is frustrated when they describe torrents of insults as "banter". He does object very strongly to my vote on him, but is dismissing a weak example of a basic tell as "complete nonsense" frustration? But I agree that the thread is a bit too focused right now.

I will continue watching my prime suspect, and see if quint does anything more distinctly "new player mafia".

[SIR CYANIDE]

but is dismissing a weak example of a basic tell as "complete nonsense"

I don't think you get the point. It is not a 'basic tell', it is complete bullshit. We are not discussing the psychology behind me judging a basic tell as complete nonsense, we are discussing how your read

IS

in fact complete bullshit.

@Everyone: does

anyone

actually think Jack's argument ("you first make a joke post and then a serious post") is anything more than a null tell?

The site must be acting up . . . it's bizarre that your double post would actually get intercepted by Sir Cyanide. xD

The ninja master

[Zang]

I don't understand your question cyanide, what argument are you talking about?

[StrangerCoug]

@Everyone: does

anyone

actually think Jack's argument ("you first make a joke post and then a serious post") is anything more than a null tell?

I don't.

[SIR CYANIDE]

I don't understand your question cyanide, what argument are you talking about?

He said that me first making a joke post and then a serious post is a 'basic tell'

[Jack]

I don't understand your question cyanide, what argument are you talking about?

He said that me first making a joke post and then a serious post is a 'basic tell'

No...that's wrong. Tell me why, when I accused you in what you obviously consider to be a bogus fashion, you choose to spend all your energy to arguing that the claim was "complete nonsense" rather than being curious about me? Is it your position that anyone who makes an argument you disagree with is mafia? Surely not.

[Zhero]

You haven't read the thread carefully...

Yeah, note to self, don't play Mafia half-asleep.

That said, I disagree with your (actual) point there; speculation can be harmful to town as it encourages rolefishing and potentially drowns out more productive conversation.

@Everyone: does anyone actually think Jack's argument ("you first make a joke post and then a serious post") is anything more than a null tell?

I think gauging a person's willingness to join into a serious discussion is a useful tell, and even though its weak in this instance its still worth pointing out.

[SIR CYANIDE]

No...that's wrong. Tell me why, when I accused you in what you obviously consider to be a bogus fashion, you choose to spend all your energy to arguing that the claim was "complete nonsense" rather than being curious about me? Is it your position that anyone who makes an argument you disagree with is mafia? Surely not.

Of course not, else I would have voted TQO. I am suspicious of you because you didn't intervene in the TQO/me dispute, though you understood the situation -> you let the misunderstanding escalate, which is anti-town. You could have said 'stop the insulting, and TQO, what Cyanide is trying to say [blahblah]' or something like that.

Instead,

you try to buddy up to him and encourage him to put his vote on me. Not to forget, you were ok with him having a distorted view. I do not consider that just bad theory or anti-town, but I consider that scum as well with everything that's going on. Sounds to me like you slipped up and you're trying to get it brushed off by others as silly play.

[Jack]

His view that was distorted was the view that townies should want to be investigated. Him believing that does not harm the town. Why would I care more about him realizing that his argument had been invalid than in seeing what other people said about it and how he defended it?

Instead, you try to buddy up to him and encourage him to put his vote on me.

A few posts back I explained that and you said:

Fair enough.

[Zang]

Cyanide-i do not know what you are talking about(could you tell me the post# or quote it) but based on what you said then I would agree with you.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Cyan: Why is it his (Jack's) responsibility to make sure that your argument is clear? Putting words into your mouth could be just as bad as the alternative. Honestly, giving TQO and you a chance to explain yourselves first isn't something I see as wrong.

What posts did I make that had the purpose of finding pro town roles to kill? That is what role fishing is. How do you feel that I am hiding behind Sir cyanide?

As for the set up "conclusion"--

Oh well, probably not. But I wouldn't be overly afraid of speculation-->the point I'm making.

@Jack: You didn't specifically role-fish, per se, however, your initial question led to subsequent fishing due to the speculation your question brings. Basically, your question breeded roletalk. And if you didn't rolefish, how did you come across your information of the set-up? I am a bit afraid of the role speculation as already you seem to have a feel of multiple roles in this game and I thought talk on it was cut off.
The hiding behind Cyan's raging is just speculation and gut feel.

[StrangerCoug]

@Jack: You didn't specifically role-fish, per se, however, your initial question led to subsequent fishing due to the speculation your question brings. Basically, your question breeded roletalk. And if you didn't rolefish, how did you come across your information of the set-up? I am a bit afraid of the role speculation as already you seem to have a feel of multiple roles in this game and I thought talk on it was cut off.
The hiding behind Cyan's raging is just speculation and gut feel.

Now I know my big worry.

IGMEOY: Jack

[SIR CYANIDE]

@Cyan: Why is it his (Jack's) responsibility to make sure that your argument is clear?

It was not 'my' argument. TQO didn't understand something that had a general answer, not something that only I could argue about. Not to forget, Jack explained it as well, well before me. TQO still did not get it, so I tried re-explaining. Jack ignored it.

[Jack]

What posts did I make that had the purpose of finding pro town roles to kill? That is what role fishing is. How do you feel that I am hiding behind Sir cyanide?

As for the set up "conclusion"--

Oh well, probably not. But I wouldn't be overly afraid of speculation-->the point I'm making.

@Jack: You didn't specifically role-fish, per se, however, your initial question led to subsequent fishing due to the speculation your question brings. Basically, your question breeded roletalk. And if you didn't rolefish, how did you come across your information of the set-up? I am a bit afraid of the role speculation as already you seem to have a feel of multiple roles in this game and I thought talk on it was cut off.
The hiding behind Cyan's raging is just speculation and gut feel.

I don't feel that speculation is as harmful as people make it out to be. I've seen many people accused of role fishing and they haven't turned out to be mafia at a rate greater than chance. It really only works on a tell when a newish player jumps on a hint and tries to find out if that person really has a role, and even then it isn't that solid since new players do lots of strange things. Certainly not in a normal game. In a heavily themed game it depends, speculation can be the towns savior or its downfall.

Basically the chance of a power role completely fudging it and revealing themselves is no greater than the chance of a mafioso fudging it and revealing themselves. And there's more mafia than cops. And for all you know, I am the cop

If anything, the roletalk that resulted from my comment gives us some insight into the quintastic one, which is a positive thing.

The role setup I proposed was just a vanilla setup, I wasn't actually proposing it. That was the point of the "probably not" and where I said I was just posting it to make the point that speculation wasn't really dangerous.

Now I know my big worry.

Which is what exactly?

[Jack]

@Cyan: Why is it his (Jack's) responsibility to make sure that your argument is clear?

It was not 'my' argument. TQO didn't understand something that had a general answer, not something that only I could argue about. Not to forget, Jack explained it as well, well before me. TQO still did not get it, so I tried re-explaining. Jack ignored it.

How many other people ignored it?

[StrangerCoug]

Now I know my big worry.

Which is what exactly?

That you're directing the cop is weird, as I already said. I could have sworn that you said the doc would protect the cop tonight, but what I found instead in an ISO read on you is something weirder on which I'm surprised I haven't commented:

you predict the setup.

My guess for the role setup:

1 godfather
2 goon

1 cop
1 doctor
1 roleblocker

It's Day 1 and this is not a night start. Unless you're the mod's alt or you personally know the mod,

any

setup prediction at this point is absurd as we have zero evidence to back it up.

[Jack]

unvote:sir cyanide,vote:stranger coug

You didn't do an ISO read on me, but you are claiming to.

[Jack]

ebwop: I'm very suspicious of people who pretend like they are reading carefully and scumhunting, when they actually aren't. Mafia are always lazier about that.

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount 2:

Jack - (3) – PaltryExcuse, Zhero, Sir Cyanide
PaltryExcuse - (1) - StrangerCoug
Zang - (1) - Vivi57
Vivi57 – (1) – Agar
Sir Cyanide – (1) – Zang
The Quintastic One – (1) – ConfidAnon
StrangerCoug – (1) - Jack

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Did I miss anything?

cruelty's V/LA is noted.

[Wickedestjr]

Looks like nobody needs prodding, but Vivi57 and AGar are close. Aside from that, the activity is good.