Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[kunkstar7]

Interesting night kill. Gayle puts super suspicion onto PD and Kunk, gets one of them right, and is now dead.

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

Nice soft suspicion there. Why don't you just come out and say, "I THINK KUNK IS SCUM!"

I like your "brilliant" plan to cast suspicion on me, keep it up.

Vote: Lastsurvivor

[Lastsurvivor]

Well, I don't vote when all I have is a general observation. Likewise, I also wouldn't vote someone when all the put on me is a "soft suspicion"

[Lastsurvivor]

*when all they

[RandomMaster]

Ok, so for the entire PD saying Kyiv is his partner, I think it's just WIFOM (I think that's how you use it). He knows he was going down, so I'm guessing he picked someone and just threw said person under the bus. He could have done reverse psychology, picking someone town and hoping to throw some confusion, or reverse reverse psychology, or etc. Kyiv could be scum, he could be town.

Kunk has still not given me his opinion of post 242, where I wanted him to explain his contradictions that I pointed out, even though I asked multiple times what he thought of it.

Here's a case against Kunk, made by Gayle, a proven townie:

The Kunk
-I think that his attack on MT didn't pan out, so he switched to Medix, who was a much easier target.
-Claims putting someone at L-1 is good for pressure.
-Says his vote on Medix was because of Medix's lack of content. Aka Policy Lynch.
-Agrees with Michel, but keeps his vote on Medix.
-Quickly tries to discredit me though I had posted very little.
-Later claims that he was agreeing with me rather than attacking me.
-Blows off the last two points with a 'That's cool' and changes the subject.

Also, he was the hammer on PD. Might have seen there was no hope for his partner, so he did the last vote, trying to distance himself.

Interesting night kill. Gayle puts super suspicion onto PD and Kunk, gets one of them right, and is now dead.

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

Nice soft suspicion there. Why don't you just come out and say, "I THINK KUNK IS SCUM!"

I like your "brilliant" plan to cast suspicion on me, keep it up.

Vote: Lastsurvivor

OMGUS?

Vote: kunkstar7

[MichelSableheart]

LastSurvivor, Kunkstar, RandomMaster, don't ignore post #322!

If you are the cop and investigated someone other then Gayle last night, please claim.

If you are the cop and investigated Gayle, or if you aren't the cop, please state "if I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night".

[MichelSableheart]

Really? Even with the mod using phrases like "going through the motions"?

The most important part in the message from the mod is "No matter what conclusions you make". The conclusions are completely our responsibility, he is not going to give information. Even if we feel that the game is decided already, we still have to play it out and can be wrong.

The correct term for Patriots statement is indeed WIFOM. Patriots calling Kyiv his partner gives us information, but it's extremely difficult to parse correctly, because there always will be the reasoning of "but that's what he wants us to think".

I also don't think the Gayle kill is indicative of Kunk scum. Patriots was extremely eager to hammer Medix/Gayle. Gayle was extremely disbelieving of Patriots claim. The nightkill seems to me to be mainly done because Gayle was virtually confirmed town.

[kunkstar7]

Kunk, you've been acting a bit strange recently, and some things you're saying now seem to be inconsistent with things you've said before.

From rereading my post where I voted Medix, I think I'm leaning more towards because of lack of content. He has been very weak and basically if he isn't scum then he is not helping the town at all right now, providing the scum with an easy lynch target.

That was your reply to LastSurvivor's question about if you were voting Medix because he was either scum or lack of information.

wrote:
Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I completely agree with this statement. It is the case of lynching for noncontribution rather than scumminess. Until either Medix shows up or replaced, there shouldn't be a judgment on him.

My suspicion is on LS, as he is being the little voice in the back, egging anything that comes up on.

(The reason that MS is reffering is lynching not because of thinking one as scum, but because that one is not helping) So if you completely agree with MS, why are you keeping your vote on Medix/Gayle? You're saying that it is the biggest cause of mislynches, but yet you continue on as if you want Medix gone. Also, if you have your suspicions on LS, why not vote him?

wrote:
If Medix gets replaced, and his replacement can put forth content, are you going to lynch him/her still?

If Medix gets replaced, we would give the replacement a chance to prove otherwise. If the replacement is unsatisfactory as well, then I believe the lynch should proceed.

Later on, he replies with this:

Definitely. Straight up. Everything Gayle says is pure truth.

All that Gayle said before this post which, from what I understood was sarcasm, was that he was reading the thread and claimed town. So, where was his chance to prove otherwise? Also, can I just state the times between the posts? 11 minutes. That's rather quick to base your judgment of someone who still hadn't read the thread.

In addition, from what I understand as sarcasm, you seem to imply that Medix/Gayle is scum in your view. Doesn't that contradict what you said earlier, when you said that you voted Medix not because of you think he's scum, but rather because he's not helping the town?

Right now, I can't judge Gayle immediately since he only started this game and catching up, and also, as he stated, he cant prove his claim of being town in 2 posts. I have no reason to unvote at this time.

I'm gonna

FoS: kunkstar7

because of the reason that I stated above.

Starting from the top.....

Medix was our lead at the moment, due to his posts being weak, inconsistent and also sparse. These things are tells for both scum and town. My leaning at the time was that he was probably acting more townie newb vibe rather than inconsistent scum. Since the reasons I had voted Medix for were also tells for scum, I found no reason to unvote for there was a chance he could be scum. My suspicions of Lastsurvivor were mostly gut feelings, not substantial reads. There wasn't reason to switch a vote from someone who displayed some scummy actions to someone with even less real scumminess. Tell me the logic in that.

About the Gayle sarcastic comment thing...it has to do with playstyle he was currently displaying in another game that I was reading. I repeat again that it was not meant to demean Gayle before he had a chance to read the thread. It was kind of like saying hi to someone you knew who just replaced into your game. Except I said that. Notice I did not press ANY case resulting from his claim of townie. I made my comment, then proceeded onto other matters. I gave Gayle that chance to prove his innocence, and he did well, with us lynching scum rather than a townie.

As for my Lastsurvivor vote, it was not omgus. It was a "if your gonna be suspicious of me be suspicious of me" vote. I didn't like how he was trying to point out that the nightkill made me look scummy, without actually stating that it made me look scummy. Its kind of like a scum softclaiming they are town.

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

[Flareonage]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

I think we should all just ignore the Kyiv comment and treat her like we normally would

VOTE: Lastsurvivor

He posted 3 times and didn't even attempt to vote. He just attempted to throw suspicion on Kunk which is a scummy thing to do. He couldn't at least posted some evidence

[Lastsurvivor]

@Kunk: I thought I was rather direct in saying that I thought it was fishy. Now that I look back at it, it could have easily been a mafia tactic to try to put suspicion on you, so sorry. However, I must say that I thought that your reaction to my "soft suspicion" was a bit much.

@Flare:

1) I only posted twice, my third post was just a correction. Please don't exaggerate the numbers to try to make me look bad.

2) I'm not going to vote him based on a general observation, like I had said earlier. It's not enough to warrant a vote.

3) Evidence? Wha? Do you need me to post the case Gayle made on him?

[Flareonage]

1. Same difference, you were here for the correction.

2. Then why don't you build a case against him?

3. So you're gonna rely on Gayle's case? He was a Vanilla Townie which means he didn't know anything more then the rest of us do

[MichelSableheart]

LastSurvivor, your post still didn't contain the requested claim...

[kunkstar7]

He posted 3 times and didn't even attempt to vote. He just attempted to throw suspicion on Kunk which is a scummy thing to do. He couldn't at least posted some evidence

[sarcasm]Thanks for the awesome rehash of the last page.[/sarcasm]

See? Clearly designated.

This is a really bad post.

This game does

NOT

require you to vote. I for one have been a very sparse user of votes. Just because he has posted odesn't mean he has to vote someone, take MichelSableHeart for example, he has posted yet isn't voting currently. Explain to me how being suspicious of someone and pointing out how they are suspicious is a scummy thing to do? I think you missed the entire point of my vote. I voted Lastsurvivor not because of his suspicion of me, but because of the way he attempted to cast suspicion on me.

Lets say that Lastsurvivor had said,

I believe kunk is scum because Gayle was suspicious of him and PD, and since PD was dead kunk wanted to get rid of the person suspicious of him.

I accept that. Clearly stating the reason why he was suspicious of me, and that he was suspicious of me. I would then go onto to try and defend myself against such accusation.

Yet his post was "hmm interesting nightkill, Gayle was suspicious of PD and kunk...are you thinking what I'm thinking?" (Paraphrasing)
He doesn't try to directly cast suspicion, he plants the seed of suspicion, without making his position clear. This is scummy.

Onto Gayle's case.

It went as follows:

The Kunk
1)I think that his attack on MT didn't pan out, so he switched to Medix, who was a much easier target.
2)Claims putting someone at L-1 is good for pressure.
3)Says his vote on Medix was because of Medix's lack of content. Aka Policy Lynch.
4)Agrees with Michel, but keeps his vote on Medix.
5)Quickly tries to discredit me though I had posted very little.
6)Later claims that he was agreeing with me rather than attacking me.
7)Blows off the last two points with a 'That's cool' and changes the subject.

Numbered for answering.

From what I see, only number one can be constituted as evidence for a case.

2) This is not scummy. My view and comment of L-1 as pressure is quoted as such:

L-1 is a good technique to put pressure on a

likely

suspect imo. In cases where the entire basis for voting someone is absurd (such as a random vote bandwagon) L-1 is not good.

How is putting someone at L-1 for pressure scummy, if they are a likely suspect? If we have a good suspicion of them L-1 can be the breaking point where the suspect cracks under pressure or stands up and present a clear argument proving to us they are town instead.

3 and 4 were answered in my last post. Most of the case on Medix was attributed his horrible posting and weak arguments. These are both indicators of scum and poorly played town. With the chance that Medix was scum, then it is worth the vote when he was the current lead at the time.

5,6, and 7 were all related to my comment regarding Gayle's entrance. I have already stated my reason for the comment. If you want to make a case out of me for this comment, then why didn't you also make a case on Gayle because he claimed town?

[Flareonage]

You missed the point of MY post.

If he really think you're suspicious he could've at least posted some evidence to convince the rest of us. All he said was to look at Gayle's case. Confirmed townie =/= right about everything. Gayle knew the same amount of information we knew, that doesn't mean his suspicions were necessarily correct

[kunkstar7]

Interesting night kill. Gayle puts super suspicion onto PD and Kunk, gets one of them right, and is now dead.

Last I read this was evidence, something new that no one had pointed out, albeit poorly pointed out. He did add more to the case on me, he provided an explanation for the night kill.

[Flareonage]

He didn't actually say "I find Kunk suspicious." He merely implied it and hoped for us to put two and two together. I think that's scummy

[kunkstar7]

Brilliant deduction.

Add that comment to my case too.

[Flareonage]

is that sarcasm?

[Lastsurvivor]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

@Flare:

1. Same difference, you were here for the correction.

Er, no, not same difference. You exaggerated to try to make your point sound more solid.

2. Then why don't you build a case against him?

I'm busy with midterms, and I don't feel an extreme need to. As I said before, I am questioning my initial suspicion since it goes into a bit of WIFOM territory.

3. So you're gonna rely on Gayle's case? He was a Vanilla Townie which means he didn't know anything more then the rest of us do

You missed my point. I mentioned Gayle's case because I don't see how I can provide evidence to support a general observation. I thought I was pretty clear, did you really miss that or are you trying to twist my words?

You missed the point of MY post.

If he really think you're suspicious he could've at least posted some evidence to convince the rest of us. All he said was to look at Gayle's case. Confirmed townie =/= right about everything. Gayle knew the same amount of information we knew, that doesn't mean his suspicions were necessarily correct

Once again, I went into WIFOM territory. I don't have much to say about Kunk right now, although I might once I get finished up tomorrow.

He didn't actually say "I find Kunk suspicious." He merely implied it and hoped for us to put two and two together. I think that's scummy

I don't see why. Scum could easily say "The mafia killed Gayle after he made a case on Kunk, so Kunk could be scum."

[MichelSableheart]

Only waiting for the claims of Randommaster and Kyiv then.

Kunkstar, I'm having trouble understanding what you are arguing against Flareonage there. Also, at whom is the second part of #336 (everything from "let's say that lastsurvivor had said" onward) directed?

[kunkstar7]

336 is two parts.
The first part is in response to Flareonage's vote on Lastsurvivor, respectively Post 332. I am arguing that if the following quote is Flareonage's reason for voting Lastsurvivor as well:

He posted 3 times and didn't even attempt to vote. He just attempted to throw suspicion on Kunk which is a scummy thing to do. He couldn't at least posted some evidence

Then it is a poorly founded reason for voting Lastsurvivor, for the reasons I say in Post 336.

The second part begins where I say "Onto Gayle's case".

In Post 328 by RandomMaster, he uses Gayle's case on me as evidence for a FOS on me.

Lastsurvivor also believes this case is evidence against me when he mentioned:

Evidence? Wha? Do you need me to post the case Gayle made on him?

From what I understood this quote to mean was that he believed that Gayle's case was enough evidence on me.

The second half of 336 was meant to point out that in fact Gayle's case was quite weak, with only one point of actual merit.

[Kyiv]

If I am cop, I investigated Gayle last night. (I'll have more tonight or tomorrow, sorry!)

[Lastsurvivor]

If you still believe that, Kunk, then please actually read my post. I already said that I do not think Gayle's case is enough evidence against you.

[RandomMaster]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

I'm going to have to be replaced. I simply don't have the time which I thought I had.

[RandomMaster]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

I'm going to have to be replaced. I simply don't have the time which I thought I had.

[MichelSableheart]

Too bad, looks like the breaking strategy of cop claim, doc claim, 3 confirmed innocent, 3 lynches and an investigation to find the last scum in 4 unconfirmed players won't go through then.

---
I strongly doubt that Kyiv is Patriots partner. Kyiv was the first to pressure Patriots, starting with a FoS when he wasn't the topic of discussion at all, and actually producing a case in ISO #17, before anyone else did. Scum isn't likely to draw attention to their partner like that. Add to that the fact that scum is far more likely to lie about their partner, and I'm almost certain that Kyiv is town.

Almightybob is almost certainly town too. Patriots made two serious cases on day 1. The first was against Medix, the other against bob. When Patriots started his attack, he launched it as the alternative to his own lynch. If Patriots had been making cases against most players in the game, I can see him making a case against his partner. But I don't see Patriots building a case against his partner as the only alternative to his own lynch.

LastSurvivor was the only one actively questioning the Medix wagon, urging caution, and wanting to make sure that the players voting were actually voting because they felt that Medix was scum. He even actively collided with Patriots over this. I consider him one of the main reasons that Medix wasn't lynched yesterday. Likely town.

This leaves me with three suspects. RandomMaster, Flareonage, and Kunkstar. Looking at Patriots behaviour towards them, all of them are potential partners. I'll have to look into them more thoroughly to come to a definite decission. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look into them right now. Expect a more thorough analysis of them in my next post.