Mafia 913: Wickedestjr's Mafia - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

/confirm

Vote: PaltryExcuse

for admitting to being such.

[StrangerCoug]

/confirm

Vote: PaltryExcuse

for admitting to being such.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn you, Internet.

[StrangerCoug]

Who wants to be investigated tonight?

With your self-vote, I think you should be investigated, but nobody's dine anything scummy yet. Self-voting in the RVS is null; after that, I generally find it scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

If you're seriously claiming to be a cop, then a volunteer investigation won't do you any good in the first place. Because you would of just outed yourself and the Mafia would be killing you on Night One without you having a chance to validate if your investigation is scum or not. lol.

Unless of course we have a doctor, in which case you would be the obvious target for protection from said doctor and huzzah! We would have some healthy investigating going on.

So cheah, go ahead and investigate me if you need a target. I'd love to get an early town read to help verify my innocence so I'm not constantly under suspicion.

It's Page 2 and you're already rolefishing? Gee whiz, that's a record.

Unvote: PaltryExcuse
Vote: The Quintastic One

Ok...follow up question to those who answered. If you are innocent, why would you want the cop to waste an investigation on you? Trying to prove you aren't scared makes sense for the mafia...

What you mention here is true, but I have a scummy meta and the cop, if any, might not be able to get a good read on me.

[StrangerCoug]

So me purposefully volunteering for the town cop (Jack or not) means I'm scum...despite the fact that if they town cop were to take me up on that offer than I would be proven innocent, and no scum in their right mind would actively want to be investigated and outed on day 2 in the first place.

Which makes me believe that those who are pointing suspicions towards me and going so far as to even vote for me are scum trying to get a lynch so that that's one less cooperative townie to deal with and they can try to strike fear in anyone else who would dare to try and prove their innocence and screw up their late game hijinx.

Therefore

Vote: Strangercoug

FoS: Paltryexcuse

Call it rolefishing all you want. I'm fully willing for the town cop to investigate me. A proven innocent townie is a thousand times more useful than a bunch of townies that you can't trust to be telling the truth.

Your posts indicate that you think it relatively likely that Jack is the cop. That's not something anybody but him should know.

To Jack: I haven't put a vote on SC because I don't believe his actions are being scummy at this point.

Am I not quoting you doing so above? I didn't expect to nail scum in the head this early, but you are leading me to believe I've done it.

Rofl, you're right Jack. My vote right now IS on just an RVS vote.

I'm reading the post, and it doesn't look like your vote is an RVS vote, and I know that neither is mine.

In other news, everybody needs to calm down. I know this is a game of Mafia, but I did not come in here with the expectation of this thread to be a war zone.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I'm not going to declare V/LA, but I messed up the computer in my room and now it won't connect to the Internet. I'll be using the other two computers in the house in the meantime.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I was able to solve the Internet problem.

I love quick fixes

[StrangerCoug]

Why are we still going on about Jack being a possible cop? You know that you're painting an NK target on him, right?

[StrangerCoug]

Fine, Coug. Let's assume that Jack isn't the cop. Tell me then, why would he openly hint at that kind of ability? What are the benefits of doing such a risky move?

I didn't want to assume anything about Jack, but I'll bite on this one—it reads to me as if he's trying to direct the cop if that's the case. Not scummy per se, but that he's doing it openly is indeed weird. I haven't decided either way on him, but neither have I forgotten about it.

[StrangerCoug]

Confidanon-why is Cacautiosness a bad thing? And early in your post (118) you say that your vote on Jack stays but later in that same post you unvote Jack and vote TQO.

Good points. I want to see how he responds.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm starting to notice that a lot of the thread lately is Jack vs. SIR CYANIDE. I'm not really decided on this: while it looks to me like I should have a read on Jack either way, I don't, and I'm leaning frustrated town on SIR CYANIDE.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm starting to notice that a lot of the thread lately is Jack vs. SIR CYANIDE. I'm not really decided on this: while it looks to me like I should have a read on Jack either way, I don't, and I'm leaning frustrated town on SIR CYANIDE.

[StrangerCoug]

Is the site acting up, or what? That's the second time I've double-posted in this thread.

[StrangerCoug]

@Everyone: does

anyone

actually think Jack's argument ("you first make a joke post and then a serious post") is anything more than a null tell?

I don't.

[StrangerCoug]

@Jack: You didn't specifically role-fish, per se, however, your initial question led to subsequent fishing due to the speculation your question brings. Basically, your question breeded roletalk. And if you didn't rolefish, how did you come across your information of the set-up? I am a bit afraid of the role speculation as already you seem to have a feel of multiple roles in this game and I thought talk on it was cut off.
The hiding behind Cyan's raging is just speculation and gut feel.

Now I know my big worry.

IGMEOY: Jack

[StrangerCoug]

Now I know my big worry.

Which is what exactly?

That you're directing the cop is weird, as I already said. I could have sworn that you said the doc would protect the cop tonight, but what I found instead in an ISO read on you is something weirder on which I'm surprised I haven't commented:

you predict the setup.

My guess for the role setup:

1 godfather
2 goon

1 cop
1 doctor
1 roleblocker

It's Day 1 and this is not a night start. Unless you're the mod's alt or you personally know the mod,

any

setup prediction at this point is absurd as we have zero evidence to back it up.

[StrangerCoug]

unvote:sir cyanide,vote:stranger coug

You didn't do an ISO read on me, but you are claiming to.

If I didn't do an ISO read on you, I would not be getting on myself for missing it for so long. I consider making a mental note of something and not commenting on it until several pages later to be cheap unless you were V/LA or otherwise not in the thread. I've made quite a number of posts since the quote I made, if I'm not mistaken so I can't say I was V/LA or not in the thread.

TL;DR version: I call OMGUS.

Unvote: The Quintastic One

and demote to an

HoS
Vote: Jack

[StrangerCoug]

unvote:sir cyanide,vote:stranger coug

You didn't do an ISO read on me, but you are claiming to.

If I didn't do an ISO read on you, I would not be getting on myself for missing it for so long. I consider making a mental note of something and not commenting on it until several pages later to be cheap unless you were V/LA or otherwise not in the thread. I've made quite a number of posts since the quote I made, if I'm not mistaken so I can't say I was V/LA or not in the thread.

TL;DR version: I call OMGUS.

Unvote: The Quintastic One

and demote to an

HoS
Vote: Jack

Is this you providing evidence for having done an ISO read on me? Very well.

That's my defense, basically.

I vote you, you vote me back and say

I'm the one

who voted OMGUS? I've had plenty of hos's and votes on me.

If you want my vote off you, you need to convince me that you're not panicking scum.

but what I found instead in an ISO read on you is something weirder on which I'm surprised I haven't commented: you predict the setup.
...
It's Day 1 and this is not a night start. Unless you're the mod's alt or you personally know the mod, any setup prediction at this point is absurd as we have zero evidence to back it up.

Now, quotes from an ISO read on me:

My guess for the role setup:

1 godfather
2 goon

1 cop
1 doctor
1 roleblocker

Oh well, probably not. But I wouldn't be overly afraid of speculation-->the point I'm making.

Now to be fair, many people misinterpreted this. In fact, it got mentioned repeatedly, to miss that before doing an ISO you would have to barely paying attention:

Jack-I doubt you are the cop, and claiming that you are, so early in the game is scummy

Jack (again)-I do not see why you think that is the setup for this game.

I think you misread.

What posts did I make that had the purpose of finding pro town roles to kill? That is what role fishing is. How do you feel that I am hiding behind Sir cyanide?

As for the set up "conclusion"--

Oh well, probably not. But I wouldn't be overly afraid of speculation-->the point I'm making.

That's an oddly specific guess. Any reasoning?

You haven't read the thread carefully...

The role setup I proposed was just a vanilla setup, I wasn't actually proposing it. That was the point of the "probably not" and where I said I was just posting it to make the point that speculation wasn't really dangerous.

And to miss it AFTER doing an ISO is implausible. You specifically stated that "you were surprised I hadn't commented on it". See above for my comments on it. You say several times that I "predicted the setup", it's very clear from these comments that I didn't.

First of all, I am complaining about myself, not you, not commenting on your setup speculation. I understand that you're not giving it serious support, but why the hell did you post a setup theory anyway?

So, you weren't reading the thread carefully to begin with, and you didn't do an ISO read. You skimmed through a couple of my posts to find something that you could act like you thought was suspicious.

That I was looking for something specific in the ISO read is conceded and implied in my vote post, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

So basically, you're posting a setup speculation that even you support, you're turning my words against me, and you're panicking. I'm pretty sure I was right not to automatically assume you are the cop.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: that

not

even you support. That's a very important word I forgot.

[StrangerCoug]

That I was looking for something specific in the ISO read is conceded and implied in my vote post, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

I said you weren't paying attention during the game, and didn't do an ISO reread. My claim was that you just ISO'd me, went through the first few posts until you could find something you could say was suspicious, and then quit your reading. I gave proof that you didn't read the rest of the ISO. But you made claims like "you never commented on this" and now "I didn't find what I was looking for" implies that you read the whole ISO.

I already said that I, not you, am the one that did not make a comment. Quote me where I did otherwise if you want me to continue this discussion, because I no longer believe you to have misinterpreted me, but rather misrepresented me.

Looking for a specific "scummy sounding" post in an ISO read, without doing due diligence, is scummy whether you conceded to it or not. I don't see where you conceded to it anyway:

unvote:sir cyanide,vote:stranger coug

You didn't do an ISO read on me, but you are claiming to.

If I didn't do an ISO read on you, I would not be getting on myself for missing it for so long. I consider making a mental note of something and not commenting on it until several pages later to be cheap unless you were V/LA or otherwise not in the thread. I've made quite a number of posts since the quote I made, if I'm not mistaken so I can't say I was V/LA or not in the thread.

TL;DR version: I call OMGUS.

Unvote: The Quintastic One

and demote to an

HoS
Vote: Jack

What this seems to say is that you wouldn't have commented on something from a few pages back unless you were V/LA. And that if you hadn't really done an ISO read you wouldn't be getting on yourself for missing that post.

Oops—I think it was the post of mine before that. The first post where I talk about the setup speculation.

I understand that you're not giving it serious support, but why the hell did you post a setup theory anyway?

Are you not reading the posts even now that I went through and picked them out for you?

Ironically, this is the best defense you could have given.

If I were not reading, I would not have typed "I understand that you're not giving it serious support". Now answer me.

That I was looking for something specific in the ISO read is conceded and implied in my vote post, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

What were you looking for?

I could have sworn that he made a post that indicated that he seemed to know that there was a doc that would protect the cop tonight. Must have been someone else that said that.

I'm not sure I'm unerstanding your point here. Why is proposing a game setup (especially one he acknowledges in the same post to be made up) scummy?

Rolefishing, mainly. Also, scum familiar with game balance would have a better idea of the other possible roles in the game than a VT. If you were a Mafia role cop, would you be led to believe that power roles exist on the town side also? I would.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA until further notice—should only be for a few days at max. ISP has been giving me problems since early yesterday.

I feel that Jack has defended my case well enough and I still like The Quintastic One as scum, so

unvote Jack

and

vote TQO

.

I agree with the suspicions of TheButtonMen & Strangercoug, since they both seem pretty scared of the possibility that we've already confirmed the cop and one townie. Notice I said possibility, not guaranteed.

But either way, I would vote for TBM, but I feel like StrangerCoug has been more active trying to stiffle the town discussion regarding Jacks claim. Sooo

Vote: Strangercoug

I either do that or allow rolefishing to continue. I picked the lesser of two evils.

[StrangerCoug]

But now that Coug & Buttonmen are pushing for my lynch so hard at this point because they are blind to truth, I'm pretty sure I've found our scum.

Could you show us where we are blind to truth? This reads as textbook OMGUS.

Mod: May already be out of V/LA—I'll confirm tomorrow to make sure I'm still not on this time bomb.

[StrangerCoug]

But now that Coug & Buttonmen are pushing for my lynch so hard at this point because they are blind to truth, I'm pretty sure I've found our scum.

Could you show us where we are blind to truth? This reads as textbook OMGUS.

Mod: May already be out of V/LA—I'll confirm tomorrow to make sure I'm still not on this time bomb.

I've already shown you. It's not my fault you're ignoring it. And I'm not going to keep repeating myself. But for refeerence purposes I am posting it one more time. And if you still refuse to believe it, that's your problem, and I will be laughing my ass off at the end game when I get to tell everyone "I told you so" when I flip town.

1) I volunteered for investigation. I don't care if Jack is the cop or not, whoever it may be can feel free to investigate me and clear me as town.

You're probably not the only scummy person hoping for vindication by cop investigation, if that's true.

2) I hinted at my role as a townie. And I will continue to give you yet another clue since you seem incapable of grasping it. I can PM one person at night (they know who they are), but my role states I do not know if they are scum or not.

I am not incapable of grasping it. What

YOU

seem to be incapable of grasping is that we'd rather lynch a VT, which is what I assume you were bradcrumbing and are now stating out in the open, over a power role. We can afford a mislynch at this point (although we don't want one).

3) I have stated that I am perfectly ok with getting Nightkilled in order to save the cop or doctor for a turn. Yeah, scum TOTALLY declare themselves as sacrificial lambs all the time to help the town, right? Stop being so closed minded and foolish.

Scum can probably afford losing one of their own too at this point.

4) And I've stated my argument that those who are voting for me are scum trying to lynch an innocent townie so that they can reduce their choices on who to nightkill, the townie or the suspected cop. I'm going to say that again, make it nice and big and bold it so that the rest of the town can understand this loud and clear.

Those who are trying to lynch me are scum who want to eliminate an innocent townie so that they don't have to worry about choosing between the confirmed townie & the suspected cop for a nightkill.

If you still don't get this logic, you're either A) Hopelessly paranoid or B) Scum.

I am neither. You, however, are both. If you don't care about being nightkilled, then why are you decreasing the chances of that happening by attacking everybody attacking you? Heck, if you don't mind being dead, why do you care about being lynched?

So I highly urge a lynch of either Strangercoug or Thebuttonmen. I don't care which one, they're both obvscum since they are ignoring logic and just pushing a lynch to get rid of obvtown.

Obvtown? Yeah, right. *blows raspberry*

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Confirm out of V/LA.

Why specifically them and not ConfidAnon and I? Both of us also had votes on you when you said this.

Because unlike what Strangercoug and TheButtonMen would have you believe, I am NOT targeting everyone who is voting for me and calling them all scum. That's statistically impossible. I can deal with you (Zhero) and Confidanon voting for me for thinking I am scummy. It's Cougs & TBM's false logic & super push for my lynch that's scummy.

I feel insulted here. I can't tell the difference between ConfidAnon's case on you and mine, and you're basically calling my aggressiveness scummy, which makes zero sense.

It's like Jack said, I believe TBM is becoming frustrated because he's not being successful at lynching the easy target (me).

Regardless of our alignments, if you wouldn't OMGUS and/or WIFOM every two or three sentences, we would not find you an easy target.

And I would be able to do an actual reread of this thread and do some actual scumhunting for once if I wasn't so damn busy trying to deflect suspicions of me. While people believe me to be scum, it would be damn near impossible for my arguments to hold any ground whatsoever because it would be viewed as just "scum trying to redirect suspicions to somebody else". I'd rather focus my attention on proving my innocence, so that I could be free to scumhunt without worrying about my arguments being manipulated by the scum and taken out of context.

A good Mafia player will put scumhunting first and defending second, if I am not mistaken.

[StrangerCoug]

I've already pointed out that it's beyond irritating at this point that Jack, Agar and Myself have all pretty much presented our cases over and over and over again and yet each day TBM or Strangercoug asks one of us to elaborate our reasons, yet again.

At this point it's blatant stalling. Since they can't convince the town into a majority lynch so they're just going to keep posting the same questions and getting the same answers until somebody wises up and sees the pattern and gets rid of them.

Are we pushing for your lynch, or are we stalling the game? It's kind of hard to be doing both without a deadline as, in theory, anybody's lynch is viable at this point. Yours, mine, Jack's, you name him (or her—I"d like not to be sexist). I'm not above quoting every single post by you that I find scummy if that's what I have to do to get the game moving.

I do agree that Zang is getting a bit worrisome, but I'd have to do a quick check on him just to double check.

[StrangerCoug]

I've already pointed out that it's beyond irritating at this point that Jack, Agar and Myself have all pretty much presented our cases over and over and over again and yet each day TBM or Strangercoug asks one of us to elaborate our reasons, yet again.

At this point it's blatant stalling. Since they can't convince the town into a majority lynch so they're just going to keep posting the same questions and getting the same answers until somebody wises up and sees the pattern and gets rid of them.

Are we pushing for your lynch, or are we stalling the game? It's kind of hard to be doing both without a deadline as, in theory, anybody's lynch is viable at this point. Yours, mine, Jack's, you name him (or her—I"d like not to be sexist). I'm not above quoting every single post by you that I find scummy if that's what I have to do to get the game moving.

I do agree that Zang is getting a bit worrisome, but I'd have to do a quick check on him just to double check.

The rules in the beginning of the first page said there was a 3 week deadline, so I have no idea where you get there is no deadline.

Oops—I think you win a point here. We don't have to worry about it just yet, though.

And you're stalling the game because you're "getting the game moving" but your only posting fluff.

Way to dismiss my legitimate case on you.

I mean, look at this post I just quoted from you. What did you accomplish here? What was the point? What activity did it continue to generate beyond "I agree with the active posters that Zang is getting worrisome".

I concede that I am pushing your lynch, which is not scummy, but refute that I am stalling, which would be scummy. If you were to take a step back and look at the thread, you'd see what I'm talking about.

You didn't offer your own conclusions you just said "I'll get back to this later" because you probably need to find time to twist some of Zang's posts around and move onto the next big target that's coming around. It's like you've gone "Well, I couldn't get a lynch out of Jack, I couldn't get a lynch out of TQO, I guess we'll go after Zang now until we get something to stick". You just keep on migrating to the next easy target hoping that something will stick, well I won't be following this one. I've got my vote and unless something drastic happens, it's not changing.

I'm getting you lynched today if I can. End of that discussion.

As for Zang, most of my read on him is hearsay and I need to do an ISO on him to confirm it. (Jack honestly makes me worrisome too, but I'm starting to get a VI read on him, and I don't think he's scum if you are town.)

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I looked at Zang in ISO, and I'm having a hard time finding a post of his where he's committal about anything. His votes don't last that long, either, which comes off to me as looking for somebody to mislynch.

FoS: Zang

[StrangerCoug]

It looks like zang and TQO have accused half the people in the game of being mafia. I'm definitely having doubts about both of them because both look like they're just trying to get anyone they can lynched. For now, I'm going to go with TQO because he's much more aggressive than zang and that seems like he'd be able to do alot more harm if we let him get away with it.

unvote; vote TQO

This logic applies more to my top two suspects, as I outlined in my last post. They went from Jack, to Me, to now Zang. But even if it didn't isn't the POINT of Day 1 to accuse as many people of their scumminess as possible and see who cracks? We've got nothing to go off of for Day 1, and obviously claiming Cop or in my case, claiming Mason only makes people look even more scummy. So I can understand your vote, but still, I'm no more guilty of throwing around fingers of suspicion than anybody else in this game. But if you were reading properly, you'd know that I've narrowed down my choices to two people, and I'm hardly saying everyone else is scummy. I've got my suspects.

You are portraying us as hopping on Jack, you, and Zang in that order. I'll let TheButtonmen speak for himself, but I've been going after you for most of the game. I've been voting you from my posts 4 through 16 and 21 onward in isolation. Posts 17-20 were me having my vote on Jack while HoS'ing you in the meantime, and I've never voted Zang as I feel you are scummier. And I am hopping? I think false accusations are already on your list of crimes, but add another count thereof to it.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought Masons collaborated via PM? My role doesn't directly say "Mason", it's actually a role I've never heard about in the Wiki. And it says that I can PM (insert person who's name I will not reveal here) during the night phase. But I do not know if he is scum or not.

So I looked up the Wiki and then at the Flash video. And after looking under Mafia Mason, it says sometimes the Mods make it so that the Mafia Masons partner is told "You do not know if they are scum or not" in order to get around the unethicalness of having Mafia be apart of the Mason group.

But my role says that I can PM this person, it doesn't say that we get a quick topic, I didn't know Masons got a quick topic because in Newbie Queue you never get to try out the Mason role. You're either Goon, Roleblocker, Vanilla, Cop or Doc.

Those who are trying to lynch me are scum who want to eliminate an innocent townie so that they don't have to worry about choosing between the confirmed townie & the suspected cop for a nightkill.

I am assuming the "confirmed townie" you speak of in the second quote to be you as we're all confirmed to ourselves, and "townie" has connotations of "vanilla". And now you're claiming a mason variant, most likely a neighbor? I don't believe you, and if you're telling the truth I'm willing to run the risk of your neighbor/mason buddy/whatever voting me. TheButtonmen, as much as you hate him, is right about what you did, and I'm not unvoting you without a good reason.

[StrangerCoug]

I've been playing a lot longer than you, and there aren't that many mason variants

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm. That's funny. I go after you with tooth and nail, question your role for a bit, and now that everything's falling in place I believe you could be a neighbor. As your neighbor doesn't confirm your alignment either, I still like my vote, but Zang's also an option. I don't see the difference between TheButtonmen aid me.

For once I'm calm and clear-headed.

[StrangerCoug]

I was exaggerating anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

What I would like from you all though, is directions to issues you feel I should comment on. What information do you want from me, given that I'm in sort of a unique position (no personal bias due to no head to heads yet)?

Can you be a little more specific as to how you're getting a newbtown read on The Quintastic One?

[StrangerCoug]

What I would like from you all though, is directions to issues you feel I should comment on. What information do you want from me, given that I'm in sort of a unique position (no personal bias due to no head to heads yet)?

Can you be a little more specific as to how you're getting a newbtown read on The Quintastic One?

He calls him obv-newb and obv-idiot. Not newbtown. If anything, it sounds as though he suspects him. But without a vote or FoS it's kinda hard to tell.

I'm led to believe cruelty thinks The Quintastic One is town given the former said he cannot vote the latter in good faith.

[StrangerCoug]

@everyone

: What do you think is the single most important event/debate/altercation to have taken place so far in the game?

My egocentric self wants to say The Quintastic One vs. StrangerCoug; my sensible self wants to say TQO's neighbot claim. So let's go with the claim.

[StrangerCoug]

I must say Zang does not look good (for reasons others have stated, but namely his ISO21 stands out as extremely scummy to me), but TQO is really something else. Have nobody of you noticed yet that he has been ignoring me blatantly (my guess is because he is a crybaby)? I would not be surprised if he started ignoring cruelty now after he stated that TQO is 'obvnewb'.

I am unsure of his alignment, but he's definitely the best lynch -for now- (that may change during the day). If we somehow conclude he's town, I would like to suggest that we just keep him in the game as a +1 for the townie side but completely ignore everything he posts.

You're worrying me here. I agree that he's the best lynch, but if we conclude he's town, we do not ignore him. If he decides to come to his senses and be useful, that's to our benefit. Would you like to lose because our best information is coming from a VI?

[StrangerCoug]

Even if we end up confident of his alignment (which is dubious to begin with), people's reactions to him are still good indicators of their own alignments.

You're worrying me here. I agree that he's the best lynch, but if we conclude he's town, we do not ignore him. If he decides to come to his senses and be useful, that's to our benefit. Would you like to lose because our best information is coming from a VI?

He is posting nonsense.

So? He is not cursed with posting nonsense forever. Maybe divine intervention will come around. That you effectively want us to forget about him since he's being so antitown is scummy and making me less confident of a TQO lynch.

Unvote: The Quintastic One
Vote: SIR CYANIDE

[StrangerCoug]

Even if we end up confident of his alignment (which is dubious to begin with), people's reactions to him are still good indicators of their own alignments.

You're worrying me here. I agree that he's the best lynch, but if we conclude he's town, we do not ignore him. If he decides to come to his senses and be useful, that's to our benefit. Would you like to lose because our best information is coming from a VI?

He is posting nonsense.

So? He is not cursed with posting nonsense forever.

I think he is.

Human beings are capable of learning. My playstyle was once scummy as all hell. Qhile I still don't call myself good at the game, I am better than I was, say, a year ago. You are not psychic; therefore, you cannot definitively prove that The Quintastic One will continue to post nonsense.

[StrangerCoug]

Even if we end up confident of his alignment (which is dubious to begin with), people's reactions to him are still good indicators of their own alignments.

You're worrying me here. I agree that he's the best lynch, but if we conclude he's town, we do not ignore him. If he decides to come to his senses and be useful, that's to our benefit. Would you like to lose because our best information is coming from a VI?

He is posting nonsense.

So? He is not cursed with posting nonsense forever.

I think he is.

Human beings are capable of learning. My playstyle was once scummy as all hell. Qhile I still don't call myself good at the game, I am better than I was, say, a year ago. You are not psychic; therefore, you cannot definitively prove that The Quintastic One will continue to post nonsense.

This is not a court, I don't need 100% proof. If I had to translate my estimation of him continuing to post bs to percentages, I'd say it is about 95%.

And guess what the post after the source this quote is? A wall of text, with The Quintastic One thinking clearly. Posts like #306 show the kind of quality I want out of him. He is no longer OMGUS'ing me, and his case on Jack (the person I perceive him as mainly attacking) is crystal clear. Do you still think it is beneficial to ignore him?

[StrangerCoug]

I forgot to mention I'd support a Vivi57 wagon. Because she's useless.

How is Vivi57 useless?

[StrangerCoug]

I forgot to mention I'd support a Vivi57 wagon. Because she's useless.

How is Vivi57 useless?

Fastest PBPA evar:

ISO1 - Confirm.
ISO2 - RVS. Votes Zang "for posting above me"
ISO3 - Returns, claiming forgot game, feels outclassed. Votes SIR CYANIDE for "arguing all the time."
ISO4 - Responds to a few questions leveled at her. Questions the votes on TBM.
ISO5 - Comes back, says Zang and TQO have attacked half the town. Votes TQO for being more aggressive than Zang. Basically echoes things others have said.
ISO6 - Responds to TQO saying he had "well thought out" motivations for every move. Unvotes. Votes Zang asking for the same thing.

/PBPA.

Tell me now, do you really think that 14 pages and 12 days into a game, 6 posts, none of which provide original thought or content and all of which follow the general smooth curve of the game is being helpful? Or am I justified in saying she's been useless thus far?

You're justified. I've gotten a bit paranoid about policy lynching, so I was probing you for information. That doesn't look like you policy lynching.

[StrangerCoug]

I forgot to mention I'd support a Vivi57 wagon. Because she's useless.

How is Vivi57 useless?

Fastest PBPA evar:

ISO1 - Confirm.
ISO2 - RVS. Votes Zang "for posting above me"
ISO3 - Returns, claiming forgot game, feels outclassed. Votes SIR CYANIDE for "arguing all the time."
ISO4 - Responds to a few questions leveled at her. Questions the votes on TBM.
ISO5 - Comes back, says Zang and TQO have attacked half the town. Votes TQO for being more aggressive than Zang. Basically echoes things others have said.
ISO6 - Responds to TQO saying he had "well thought out" motivations for every move. Unvotes. Votes Zang asking for the same thing.

/PBPA.

Tell me now, do you really think that 14 pages and 12 days into a game, 6 posts, none of which provide original thought or content and all of which follow the general smooth curve of the game is being helpful? Or am I justified in saying she's been useless thus far?

You're justified. I've gotten a bit paranoid about policy lynching, so I was probing you for information.

That doesn't look like you policy lynching.

Then what does it look like?

Exactly what I hoped AGar would post—a legitimate case on Vivi.

[StrangerCoug]

[quote="SC]Exactly what I hoped AGar would post—a legitimate case on Vivi.

No. If you lynch a player for exhibiting a trait that is not scumminess you are policy-lynching. He 'proved' that Vivi was useless, not that she was scummy - hence a policy lynch.[/quote][/quote]

Oh, have you decided to play favorites? I vote you for essentially wanting The Quintastic One policy lynched (and for us to ignore him if that doesn't end up happening), yet you don't want Vivi57 policy lynched. I don't remember winning a game where I played favorites, I warn you.

Now tell me, why the (former) nonsense speaker over the active lurker?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: That last sentence isn't clear in context. Why lynch the (former) nonsense speaker over the active lurker?

[StrangerCoug]

Please tell me where the fuck I have posted that I don't want vivi policy-lynched.

Gladly.

[quote="SC]Exactly what I hoped AGar would post—a legitimate case on Vivi.

No. If you lynch a player for exhibiting a trait that is not scumminess you are policy-lynching. He 'proved' that Vivi was useless, not that she was scummy - hence a policy lynch.[/quote]
By disagreeing with AGar and me that a legitimate case on Vivi exists, you implied that you don't want her lynched. Your counter to us is that AGar is policy-lynching Vivi. How else am I supposed to connect the dots?

Also, I unvoted TQO.

[/quote]
I know, but your scumminess about being hell-bent on making him a non-factor in the game by whatever means is still lingering.

Something about TheButtonmen's pending lynch seems false, probably that I don't see a real case on him.

[StrangerCoug]

How else am I supposed to connect the dots?

There are no dots, that's where you go wrong.

*scoffs* I agree with AGar about Vivi. That's a dot.
You disagree with us. That's a dot.
If you want me to keep going and present my case against you, you wanted The Quintastic One lynched, and failing that, for us to ignore him. That's a dot.
I don't like the stance you had on TQO as it screams of a policy lynch. That's a dot.

Do you counter these at all?

Are ISOs not working for anyone else on the site?

I tested the ISOs with you, and they were fine.

[StrangerCoug]

While I can still go for a The Quintastic One lynch, I do not have good reason to believe that he and SIR CYANIDE are the same alignment. I remember SCyan as having a perfectly decent case on TQO until he resorted to just wanting him lynched for being useless. SCyan's stance on AGar vs. Vivi is funny, too. While it's possible that SCyan was trying to bus TQO, I'm having a hard time thinking of a scum motive as to how SCyan would relent like he did if that's the case.

[StrangerCoug]

While I can still go for a The Quintastic One lynch, I do not have good reason to believe that he and SIR CYANIDE are the same alignment.

We could both be town. You mean 'that both of them are scum'.

No I do not; do not twist my words. I think that if you are town, The Quintastic One is scum and vice versa. You being both town makes little sense to me.

[StrangerCoug]

@SirC:

It isn't logic fail, a statment of belief on who he thinks is scummy based on interactions. Logic fail would be more along the lines of trying to order lynchs because of it.

It is a logic fail because his 'statement of belief' as you like to call it has a foundation of failed logic. If one of them is attacking the other person and that person is town, the other person could as well be town.

Both of you have independently committed scummy actions, so stop calling my not considering both of you to be town a logical failure. You are a hypocrite and The Quintastic One is a OMGUS'y rolefisher.

[StrangerCoug]

Why do I want to pull my hair out of my head?

[StrangerCoug]

1.both cruelty and TQO wanted a lynch.

You don't hammer people to make other people happy. Best case scenario, you're appeasing misguided townies. What I see more likely is that you're scum trying to get these two people on your good side.

2.My list was not a list of scum tells but an overview of everything that tbm did

So

THAT'S

why hardly anybody liked your "case" on him.

3.Tbm was not scum hunting, as you can see from my overview pretty much everything he did was accusing tqo of lying/changing his story

This is self-contradictory. TheButtonmen either was not scumhunting or accused The Quintastic One of being a liar changing his story. Both cannot be true.

I still like SIR CYANIDE as scum and The Quintastic One is back to his... playing badly (I can't think of a way to describe him that doesn't sound insulting to me), but damn, you're scummy.

Vote: Zang

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug is working back up my list too.

How so?

[StrangerCoug]

So

THAT'S

why hardly anybody liked your "case" on him.

I do not understand what you are saying

You've admitted to just pointing stuff of his out and not compiling a decent case on him more than once. In theory, anybody can just post "Hey, I don't like that he did this, so I'm going to hammer him." In practice, lack of effort in the hammer costs the town information.

This is self-contradictory. TheButtonmen either was not scumhunting or accused The Quintastic One of being a liar changing his story. Both cannot be true.

Actually, both can be true and both are true. Calling someone a liar over and over and over again in every single post they make is not scum hunting. So yes, both are true.

People tend not to get lynched over just one thing, so I can see how this makes sense now.

I think scum is somewhere in vivi, SC, jack and agar. Need to re-read day 1 though.

Are you including SIR CYANIDE or me in your scum theory? (I already saw that you meant Zang instead of AGar.)

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Ill.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Well again.

The Quintastic One is starting to remind me of a roller coaster—from being panicky to being logical to senselessly martyring himself to being logical. I'm still leaning town on him, but he's not my strongest town read by a long shot.

[StrangerCoug]

Jack, don't resign to being helpless. You make me want to consider putting you in a rope instead of the obvscum Zang and SIR CYANIDE.

[StrangerCoug]

Jack, don't resign to being helpless. You make me want to consider putting you in a rope instead of the obvscum Zang and SIR CYANIDE.

Scummy comment. Zang is not obvscum, people always overpursue the guy who hammered a townie. Why would you consider lynching me based on my comment there?

I do not view you as suspicious because you do not think Zang is scum for hammering town. I view you as suspicious as you did not answer The Quintastic One and me as to why you think I'm suspicious until SIR CYANIDE voted you for what I interpret as refusing to do so.

Experience has shown me that people do not always overpursue the person that hammered a townie, either. Generally, I do not pursue the person that hammered if the person did so in good faith. However, the hammer here is clearly and admittedly unjustified.

[StrangerCoug]

ConfidAnon replaced out, just so you know...

[StrangerCoug]

Get well soon, because I can't defend against the invisible...

[StrangerCoug]

My guess is that he hasn't been contributing a lot, but lurkers are generally my last line of attack. I'd love to hear a case on me.

[StrangerCoug]

I still like my SCyan-Zang-Jack theory. I think we have some consensus that they have not been acting pro-town (Zang especially), but we can't agree on a lynch.

And I missed this:

And just for the sake of argument, I'll go ahead and aim at Coug with my thoughts on him.

I actually have a gut feeling that you are scum. But for obvious reasons (no evidence to back it up, my own anti-towness making it hard enough as it is to take my opinion seriously, your inability to defend against a gut suspicion) I haven't been pursuing you. If anything pursuing lynches on a gut reaction with no real evidence gets you lynched (see TBM), so I don't currently have a case on you. But I believe my feeling may have something to do with your pursuing of the Zang lynch since I haven't seen anything to convince me beyond "He was the hammer".

There is a lot more to it than just being the hammer. How many of these reasons/things TheButtonmen did/whatever you want to call them are legitimately scummy?

-argues with Jack about cop investigating town
-votes tqo with no reasoning
-questions jacks setup
-accuses tqo of sounding scummy everytime he posts
-calls tqo "super new"
-Says that tqo has flawed logic
-tells Jack to vote tqo
-accuses tqo of exajerrating
-criticizes tqo for claiming a power role
-says that everytime tqo is questioned he says how obvtown he Is
-Says that tqo had bad logic (again)
-questions tqo
-says that I am scum with logic that I do not understand
-Calls tqo a liar
-accuses tqo of changing his story
-explains his logic for why he said I was scummy
-admits that he was going for the easy lynch (tqo)
-once again he sais that tqo has changed his story and lied multiple times
-criticizes Jack
-once again calls tqo a liar
-misspells my name
-questions paltry
-defends himself against paltry
-sais that cruelty hates day one

I count two out of 24. How about the rest of this town?

[StrangerCoug]

This game is destroying itself. Nobody's willing to help me tie ropes around SIR CYANIDE and Zang's necks, The Quintastic One is being disruptive, and I'm out of the loop as to who other players think are scum. We need to come up with something within less than two weeks.

Oh, and

Mod: This is not a leap year.

[StrangerCoug]

Do we need the filler post?

[StrangerCoug]

Get well soon, because I can't defend against the invisible...

I can't speak for Cruelty, but..

Iso 4 reads like a setup to excuse future questionable behavior ahead of time.

That post was made with the expectation that nobody would take such an excuse. It's very possible for poor players to try their best; that's why I still play despite my awful town record.

Your back-and-forth with Jack seems off somehow; the posted game set-up was so vanilla it feels weird to me that you would be that suspicious of it.

I am not used to people speculating the setup with everybody still alive. There's just too little information to do that.

When you went after TQO it felt like you were pushing the easy lynch, and the same thing comes in with Zang later on.

I pretty much expect everybody to play to at least my level, which explains The Quintastic One before I relented. As for Zang, he

STILL

doesn't have a good reason for having hammered TheButtonmen, a lynch I never liked in the first place.

You list Sir Cyanide as a top suspect but haven't made much of a case on him, despite complaining that nobody's helping you lynch him.

My case on SIR CYANIDE is:

1. trying to policy lynch TQO,
   
2. trying to get us to ignore him when that didn't work,
   
3. misrepresenting my stance on TQO-SCyan, and
   
4. dismissing AGar's case on Vivi as a policy lynch, which is hypocritical given point 1.

Would you like me to elaborate on anything?

[StrangerCoug]

Happy scumday Fat_Tony!

[StrangerCoug]

It is your scumday he is praising you for being around on mafia for X years. So happy scum day.

This game is very dull now that tqo is dead. We really need to get things going again.

The game was stalled if not dull before TQO died. That's why I tried to move the thread along.

[StrangerCoug]

That post was made with the expectation that nobody would take such an excuse.

But then why make it?

The logic behind it is very simple. If the cop were not to interpret my post as an excuse to act scummy, he would be more likely to investigate me than if he assumed that I'm acting scummy because I always do that. I

DO

produce some reliable tells as scum, however.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not. He is starting to become a suspect, but I like my other ones better.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm pretty sure the town was already demoralized when TQO died.

[StrangerCoug]

Looks like Jazzmyn has the power then.

What makes you say this? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

As someone said on the previous page, I got kind of fed up with this game when the Sir C/TQO war started up again, and even more so when TQO managed to get herself modkilled.

The Quintastic One is male.

[StrangerCoug]

Coug is most likely his partner. He was strangely reluctant to vote him on day 1, and I think he deserves a lot of scrutiny if Zang flips mafia. He also has a consistent refusal to commit, and his reasons for coming off previously strongly held convictions are poor.

I have to disagree with you here. Just because I'm shifting focus does not mean that I am refusing to commit. The only two people I heavily attacked and then dropped as suspects are Jack and The Quintastic One, Jack because I felt his defense of me was adequate and The Quintastic One because of SIR CYANIDE trying to policy lynch him. All other strong suspicions hold as such.

40 - StrangerCoug Possibly overstated attack on Quin. Also an attempt to excuse self with meta?

In hindsight, it was probably overdone, but talking about the cop when we don't even know if we have one in the first place is a bad idea.

I already defended using my meta as an excuse for future play.

239 - Coug also stalls on Zang.

I don't pursue cases on heresay.

251 - Coug FoS's Zang. Definate stalling here.

I didn't have a posted case on Zang at 239 and that's suspicious to you, and when I finally say what's tipping me off at 251, that's suspicious also? You can't damn me if I do and damn me if I don't. Zang wasn't my top suspect until after he hammered TheButtonmen.

261 - I really don't like this from Coug. Definate weak target bashing.

I wasn't hopping, like The Quintastic One was portraying TheButtonmen and me.

272 - Bad attack from Coug. He doesn't really give a reason for doubting the claim.

I interpreted "townie" as "vanilla" in TQO's posts, which led me to believe that the neighbor claim was contradictory.

276 - More worryingness from Coug.

TQO posted 276, not me.

283 - Coug wants to keep hold of his mislynch

While my question implies disagreement, I think you are reading a little too much into my question toward cruelty. I wanted to know how cruelty came to the conclusion that TQO was newbtown, which his posts implied he thought.

300 - Jumping from Coug. I am now fairly sure Coug is scum.

OK, how is my SCyan case here illegitimate?

313 - What is this... Coug, you have some explaining to do.

SCyan got to the point where he just wanted TQO to somehow become a nonfactor, which is anti-information.

472 - Badposting from Coug.

How is posting my impression of a player badposting?

[StrangerCoug]

I already defended using my meta as an excuse for future play.

What? I don't buy this defence. Simply saying "Oh by the way I act scum so ignore it if I do" is very scummy behaviour in itself. Any decent player can manipulate their own meta as scum.

If I wanted to use my meta as an excuse, then why would I suggest that the cop consider investigating me? The only way I can see this making sense is if I wanted to be bussed.

I don't pursue cases on heresay.

???

I consider it bad play to just read everybody saying "hey, so and so is scum for such and such" and then jump on just on that. At best, you are denying yourself information because you're not assessing the validity of the case; just assuming it.

I didn't have a posted case on Zang at 239 and that's suspicious to you, and when I finally say what's tipping me off at 251, that's suspicious also? You can't damn me if I do and damn me if I don't. Zang wasn't my top suspect until after he hammered TheButtonmen.

Having such a case and merely giving an FoS without much pressure counts as stalling, in my book.

I wasn't hopping, like The Quintastic One was portraying TheButtonmen and me.

I didn't say you were - indeed, that is part of the problem. You didn't seem to change your vote even when you seemed to have changed your mind.[/quote]
Where is this?

While my question implies disagreement, I think you are reading a little too much into my question toward cruelty. I wanted to know how cruelty came to the conclusion that TQO was newbtown, which his posts implied he thought.

So you don't deny aiming for a mislynch?

I actually

DO

deny it. To ask how somebody came up with a read with which you agree is usually a waste of time.

SCyan got to the point where he just wanted TQO to somehow become a nonfactor, which is anti-information.

Cyan was accusing him of being scum, but you seemed to be defending him because he'd posted a post with content in. I do not understand how they were linked or why you were defending him.

That was about where I lost confidence in TQO-scum. I saw TQO posting content as damning of SCyan when he said he'd never do it.

[StrangerCoug]

Happy birthday mod!

If I wanted to use my meta as an excuse, then why would I suggest that the cop consider investigating me? The only way I can see this making sense is if I wanted to be bussed.

I think that's the thing that's confusing me here; you didn't actually suggest that the cop investigate you, so the comment lacks context.

That is correct; if I remember correctly, I suggested that Jack be investigated.

[StrangerCoug]

5. I will also admit to self preservation, but is it bad for a townie to want to stay alive? And how is it ridiculous?

If I were to advocate that town never wants to stay alive, I'd be speedlynched; however, the highest it should be on town's agenda is second, behind scumhunting. I can think of a couple roles where best play would make it lower than that.

409 - What the fuck kind of iso is this, Zang? Misspelling your name deserves a lynch? Silly scum is silly. Hammers...

I admit that it wasn't my best iso ever and isos aren't all scumtells, I put that in for comedic relief.

Would somebody convince me that comedic relief belongs in Mafia please?

[StrangerCoug]

Scummy players don't tend to get NK'd unless there's a vig, Fat_Tony, so I'm assuming you have Jazzmyn's gender wrong, which should be obvious...

[StrangerCoug]

Scummy players don't tend to get NK'd unless there's a vig, Fat_Tony, so I'm assuming you have Jazzmyn's gender wrong, which should be obvious...

Or I made a simple typo, and you're a smartass. Either way.

We've already lost one townie through ad hominem bullshit, Coug, don't start provoking more people.

You're implying that I choose how people react to me, which you should have been taught in elementary school is not true. Nobody said people had to be impolite after I pressured them. This game has some of the most cutthroat players I've seen. Can I help that? No. I can

ENCOURAGE

something, but it's up to the other people whether to do what I'm encouraging people to do.

However, you've now given scum a new gambit, whereby they can NK cruelty and cast suspicion of a vig.

Even so, can they get the vig mislynched? If Zang flips town, there must be some way of stopping all the kills and it must actually work. At that point, we will be in seven-person LYLO or MYLO and the vig claimant, assuming believable claims, becomes the worst lynch conceivable.

I'm actually dropping Coug from my scum list. He can be very scummy as town.

I know what I am, but this is for your own good: Do you realize what you are doing by taking me out of lynch consideration just because I always act in a certain manner? I can think of two of my own reliable scum tells. If I am interpreting Jazzmyn correctly, she thinks I am more sponteaneous when I am town and more calculating when I am scum.

[StrangerCoug]

BAH!

[StrangerCoug]

I had pressed SIR CYANIDE very heavily, so I am not completely surprised that Jazzmyn killed me, but I perceive her as one of the more pro-town players out there.

Night 2 was tough for me. I basically had to decide if cruelty was scum or not. If I decided cruelty was town, which I didn't, I would most like have decided on protecting Leafsnail.

[StrangerCoug]

When I was modkilled and Sir Cyanide was replaced, I knew he was scum. Because scum are protected by their mods alot more than town are, as killing even one scum in a game, especially a power role scum, is very dangerously unbalanced for the Mafia. So it was safe to modkill me for my behavior, but Mafia would have to be replaced in order to protect the scumteam from being screwed.

I disagree with you. I've modkilled a scum power role once (how I went about it was pretty controversial, though, and the only game of mine he's played since was a Mish Mash game), and modkills are generally intended to hurt.