Open 187- Silence of the Yams! Over!

[don_johnson]

i will be sending any necessary prods tomorrow afternoon.

deadline set for January 28, midnight CST.

[XScorpion]

Lol everyone ran away.
Should we just pick a target then lynch?
I'm up for KDub or Kunkstar, whichever you guys prefer.

[ElectricBadger]

ImaginaryVote: Xscorpion.

Not sure of the second. Kdub seems suspicious, but kunkstar is feeling worse and worse. Been posting several times elsewhere while we've been waiting for his response here.

[Kdub]

No need to prod, I'm here, waiting to hear from kunkstar.

[alexhans]

Taking a random stab at a scumteam, I'm gonna guess that it's kunkstar & KDub. I'm getting a very strong town feel from Badger, and I highly doubt that Starbuck's lynch didn't have any scum on it, leaving Kunkstar the obvious choice. Not to mention that he had no non-random votes for all of day 1 except for Starbuck, which I do not like. If he was so suspicious of CSL, why did he never vote him? KDub's suggest for a mass claim earns scumpoints from me, and the fact that he put CSL at L-1 so quickly after joining is a little suspicious.
Pretty sure Badger and Alex are the other 2 town.

Based on this I'm getting more and more town feel on Kdub. His MC reasoning was not ilogical for a town player and you're grabbing other people's arguments to try and make a point. You're still very lame and generic and refused to discuss the points I made against you.
-----

Perhaps I should clarify that I meant that you excused everyone for the singular action of voting either CSL or Starbuck. Basically made it seem like they were asking for it, and it was coming to them, so it can't be telling of anyone.

You're stil ignoring the fact that I gave very good reasons at the time and no one, save Starbucks, contested them. So there's no need for me to excuse myself. Even if I WAS scum and felt guilty, nobody was bashing me for it.

I did not say that your reasons for voting either CSL or Starbuck were misplaced. I was stating that that quote provides a convenient cover in the case of anyone seeing a tell in anyone voting either of those two.

In my experience, this kind of lame attacks come solely from scum. You're saying that I need a

convenient cover

. That can only imply that I'm scum. Yet, you don't seem to think that? So it's just intended as a "reputation tarnisher" so maybe other people will suspect me?

What I was going here was why the CSL lynch provided less info than Starbuck. Everyone viewed CSL as being anti-town, so any possible partners were thrown out the window. I say anti-town because EB mentioned that he was mostly under pressure for bad play rather than scumminess.

EB did. But I did not. Read my posts. I somewhat agree with what you're saying. CSL, being more anti-town and random might be harder (or maybe just different) to connect with someone else but, I want you to make an exercise, assume Starbuck scum. Who would be his partner and why?

He would not have necessarily been the lynch, but he would have been one of the major suspects and under a lot of the pressure to defend himself from the start of the day due to the way everyone viewed him yesterday. Hence me saying lynch target instead of straight lynch.

Bullshit. Kunkstar7. If someone wanted to counterclaim, he would've done so when CSL Claimed, or kept voting. What would be the purpose of shutting up when you can't really protect the cop? It's much better to just CATCH scum. I don't know if you're really naive or pretending to be. I've thought about this to see if there was possible WIFOM to be played by scum but there was none. None, whatsoever.

I didn't expect CSL to hammer right after I placed the vote...Starbuck wasn't the first person at L-1, so I assumed that town wouldn't hammer unless everyone had discussed it first (as they did with CSL). Not to mention that CSL didn't even bother to ask Starbuck any questions (which might have changed CSL's mind about things, but it's too late now to know)

Dude... This is incredible... You are surprised by hammers from an anti-town player you claimed to be anti-town all game... If you REALLY cared about Starbuck's situation you would've unvoted. Unluckily for you, the one who hammered had to die.

No. There is zero benefit for town with this. Our top suspect will claim when we are prepared to lynch, and then the cop only needs to counterclaim if the fake claim is convincing.

Your suggestion will almost certainly lead to either a cop claim (accomplishing the same as mass claim without deciding on an order first) or a ton of WIFOM. Do you see why?

Kdub is right. It's too Wifomic. You're making a player decide between a cop claim and a cloudy hypothetical counterclaim and, let's remember, ONE wrong town vote, and we lose.

Lol everyone ran away.
Should we just pick a target then lynch?
I'm up for KDub or Kunkstar, whichever you guys prefer.

Lol... Dude... You clearly don't give a shit. You just want a mislynch... You had NOTHING else to say. Town likes to hunt. Your posts at lylo suggest you're not trying and you can't excuse it with the fact that you're playing a lot of games because there's no intent to it.

ImaginaryVote: Xscorpion.

Not sure of the second. Kdub seems suspicious, but kunkstar is feeling worse and worse. Been posting several times elsewhere while we've been waiting for his response here.

Wow... I didn't notice this. I intended to check profiles but I forgot about it. Any answers for this behaviour, kunkstar7?

I didn't want to announce it before kunkstar and Xscorpion accused someone (because they really havent) but chances are more than 80 % that I will vote for XScorpion

Sorry for the delay... But I've been waiting on who I believe to be the scumteam to DO something.

[ElectricBadger]

Based on this I'm getting more and more town feel on Kdub.

I didn't follow how the Xscorpion quote made Kdub feel town - explain?

His MC reasoning was not ilogical for a town player
...
Kdub is right. It's too Wifomic. You're making a player decide between a cop claim and a cloudy hypothetical counterclaim and, let's remember, ONE wrong town vote, and we lose.

His logic isn't horrid, as it seemed at first, but I still think it's wrong; not because there's no reason for the cop to claim right now, but because we shouldn't force them to, which is what a mass claim amounts to.

[kunkstar7]

Perhaps I should clarify that I meant that you excused everyone for the singular action of voting either CSL or Starbuck. Basically made it seem like they were asking for it, and it was coming to them, so it can't be telling of anyone.

You're stil ignoring the fact that I gave very good reasons at the time and no one, save Starbucks, contested them. So there's no need for me to excuse myself. Even if I WAS scum and felt guilty, nobody was bashing me for it.

I did not say that your reasons for voting either CSL or Starbuck were misplaced. I was stating that that quote provides a convenient cover in the case of anyone seeing a tell in anyone voting either of those two.

In my experience, this kind of lame attacks come solely from scum. You're saying that I need a

convenient cover

. That can only imply that I'm scum. Yet, you don't seem to think that? So it's just intended as a "reputation tarnisher" so maybe other people will suspect me?

Votecount analysis is another way to review the previous days action. At least one scum is usually on the lynch bandwagon, and if you can whittle it down, you can usually find one or two likely suspects. Following this line of thinking:

Starbuck- (4)

kunkstar7

,

ElectricBadger

, Xscorpion,

CSL

Xscorpion shows up as the suspicious one on that wagon.

Yes in fact you are suspect by me. It stuck out to me as something to note, and with me trying to decide between kdub or alexhans as the second scum, it helps my decision.

Although I do as well realize what you are saying, intent matters as well as the vote. I doubt anyone disagrees with your reasoning. Yet in the case of looking at votecounts, your comment blows off accusations stemming from that.

What I was going here was why the CSL lynch provided less info than Starbuck. Everyone viewed CSL as being anti-town, so any possible partners were thrown out the window. I say anti-town because EB mentioned that he was mostly under pressure for bad play rather than scumminess.

EB did. But I did not. Read my posts. I somewhat agree with what you're saying. CSL, being more anti-town and random might be harder (or maybe just different) to connect with someone else but, I want you to make an exercise, assume Starbuck scum. Who would be his partner and why?

I would have looked at Parts as the partner.

I don't care whether this is consistent over his game history or not. His reasoning followed fine for this game and that's all I'm judging on.

Here he ignored a telling contradiction to defend Ecto.

When ElectricBadger pointed out the idea that Ecto had been coaching and Ectomancer began reciprocating some of the buddying by saying Parts was at least neutral, for example:

Parts is not only cautious, but also not easily baited into a reaction

I find Parts to be careful and a bit non-committal while still making his position known. Cautious scum may play the same, but so would cautious town.

Parts reads to me as neutral as he can be.

Parts response was to point it out as a buddying attempt, and distance himself from Ectomancer by saying he was suspicious now. Yet he went on to vote on ElectriBadger, trying to make his distancing not so obvious.

Kdub continued the distancing with his recap post. The only one he ventured to give a real opinion on was CSL, who was an easier target to go after.

If Starbuck had been scum as per the exercise, I would note that on Starbuck's recap post mentions nothing of Parts. Italized as it is only for the exercise posed by alexhans and not part of a case.

He would not have necessarily been the lynch, but he would have been one of the major suspects and under a lot of the pressure to defend himself from the start of the day due to the way everyone viewed him yesterday. Hence me saying lynch target instead of straight lynch.

Bullshit. Kunkstar7. If someone wanted to counterclaim, he would've done so when CSL Claimed, or kept voting. What would be the purpose of shutting up when you can't really protect the cop? It's much better to just CATCH scum. I don't know if you're really naive or pretending to be. I've thought about this to see if there was possible WIFOM to be played by scum but there was none. None, whatsoever.

The fact that the cop is macho escaped me until you mentioned this. My line of thinking was if a claimed doctor had somehow made it through the night, wouldn't it have been a little suspicious? I can see no other motives the scum would have to kill someone else. Yet since the cop can't be protected, the doctor would have just been wasting the best chance we had to lynch scum.

ElectricBadger and others have pointed out good reasons why Xscorpion should be lynched. In my mind this post by Xscorpion solidifies the thought that he is scum.

Lol everyone ran away.
Should we just pick a target then lynch?
I'm up for KDub or Kunkstar, whichever you guys prefer.

There is no way that a true townie would say something like that. Basically all that post amounts to is "quick lets lynch someone to end discussion, hopefully it'll be the mislynch for my win."

With Xscorpion as my one scum, and ElectricBadger as a town read for me, it leaves alexhans or Kdub for the other choice.

From my little review of Parts/Kdub, I see a buddying Parts, trying later to distance himself to hide the buddying when he was called on it. With alexhans posting, he seems too aggressive to be scum, and his reasoning is not illogical. So I'm going with Kdub as the second scum suspect.

[ElectricBadger]

Kunk and Alex - are you firm enough in your suspicions to ask X for a claim?

[kunkstar7]

Yes, I am firm enough.

[Kdub]

Now that everyone has given their suspects, I'll organize them:

Kdub - Badger, XScorpion
Badger - XScorpion, Kdub
alex - XScorpion, kunkstar
XScorpion - Kdub, kunkstar
kunkstar - XScorpion, Kdub

Going by a straight number count of players who are suspicious of them, everyone ranked in order from most to least suspicious looks like this:
XScorpion
Kdub
kunkstar
Badger
alex

Agree/disagree? Any particular comments before we move forward?

[ElectricBadger]

Agree/disagree? Any particular comments before we move forward?

I think we're assembling a handy reference chart for the NK. We should probably focus on today's lynch right now rather than tomorrow's suspects. Though I suppose we're somewhat past that point.

[XScorpion]

Looking it over, I realized that even if I wanted to, I can't place a vote for anyone.
Suppose Kdub is the scum. Then if Alex is NOT his partner, then one of the people who claimed to want Kdub dead will not vote for him. I also think Alex is pretty town.
Suppose Alex is scum. No one will vote him.
Suppose Badger is scum. Only Kdub would vote for him.
Suppose Kunkstar is scum. Only Alex would vote for him.
So from my point of view, I (and by extension, town) am pretty screwed. The fact that people have stopped posting here is not helping either. Is anyone still even watching this topic? No one has posted for more than 24 hours, wtf. If you're going to lynch me, hurry the hell up plz, I don't like waiting.

[ElectricBadger]

Kunk and Alex - are you firm enough in your suspicions to ask X for a claim?

I'm still waiting on Alex. Assuming by Kdub's lack of response that he's not willing to lynch you at the moment.

If you think someone is scum, make a decent case. If you're town, try to respond to the reasons people suspect you. Claiming you can't do anything only makes me more inclined to lynch you.

[Kdub]

I'm willing to ask XScorpion to claim if everyone agrees. We can make a decision to lynch him or not then.

[ElectricBadger]

I don't support demanding a claim when we're not prepared to lynch. As per the arguments with Starbuck, that can only harm town.

[alexhans]

Based on this I'm getting more and more town feel on Kdub.

I didn't follow how the Xscorpion quote made Kdub feel town - explain?

It's just a reaction to what I believe to be lame attacks from kukstar7's part. He has this scummy way of attacking people without really commiting to it that I do not like.

The fact that the cop is macho escaped me until you mentioned this.

Don't expect me to consider this seriously because Xscorpion who is 99 % scum at this point did post question regarding mafia actions as if he was town. Pretending is possible.

kunkstar, read your ISO. Day 2. Look for places where you mention XScorpion... nope, there aren't. Just the last post where you say he is scum number 1. Where did that come from?

Kunk and Alex - are you firm enough in your suspicions to ask X for a claim?

Yep. I said I would most probably vote him so yeah.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... bc#2071667
nice...
So he is saying he wont vote because he will get lynched? If you thought someone was scum you would invest time in it and make a case. Yet, you DONT say that. You're thinking with a scum mindset. "How do I AVOID getting lynched", instead of... "who's scum? How do I get THEM lynched?".

So from my point of view, I (and by extension, town) am pretty screwed. The fact that people have stopped posting here is not helping either. Is anyone still even watching this topic? No one has posted for more than 24 hours, wtf. If you're going to lynch me, hurry the hell up plz, I don't like waiting.

YOU Are not posting. YOU are not trying and now you call for a lynch on you because you don't like waiting? That is SO bullshit...

Kdub... after reading that post... what do you expect him to claim? Cop? he is clearly NOT the cop or he would've claimed it instead of calling for his own lynch.

Based on this I'm getting more and more town feel on Kdub.

I didn't follow how the Xscorpion quote made Kdub feel town - explain?

It's just a reaction to what I believe to be lame attacks from kukstar7's part.

The fact that the cop is macho escaped me until you mentioned this.

Don't expect me to consider this seriously because Xscorpion who is 99 % scum at this point did post question regarding mafia actions as if he was town. Pretending is possible.

kunkstar, read your ISO. Day 2. Look for places where you mention XScorpion... nope, there aren't. Just the last post where you say he is scum number 1. Where did that come from?

Kunk and Alex - are you firm enough in your suspicions to ask X for a claim?

Yep. I said I would most probably vote him so yeah.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... bc#2071667
nice...
So he is saying he wont vote because he will get lynched? If you thought someone was scum you would invest time in it and make a case. Yet, you DONT say that. You're thinking with a scum mindset. "How do I AVOID getting lynched", instead of... "who's scum? How do I get THEM lynched?".

So from my point of view, I (and by extension, town) am pretty screwed. The fact that people have stopped posting here is not helping either. Is anyone still even watching this topic? No one has posted for more than 24 hours, wtf. If you're going to lynch me, hurry the hell up plz, I don't like waiting.

YOU Are not posting. YOU are not trying and now you call for a lynch on you because you don't like waiting? That is SO bullshit...

Kdub... what are you expecting from XScorpion? A cop claim? You'd like a counterclaim then? Because XScorpion is obviously NOT the cop at this point or he would've claimed it instead of calling for his own lynch because no one was posting.

Vote XScorpion

This has dragged long enough. This is too obvious. XScorpions responses do not fit at all with a town POV. Tomorrow will be lylo again. Follow the same rules as today. Be very cautious. Everybody can be scum. If possible, read what you can of the game again.

oh... preview edit... Badger... you're stalling... Why are we not prepared for a lynch? Tell me what responses of XScorpion make him look town. Read them and tell me.

[alexhans]

I'm sorry I screwed up the vote format.

Vote XScorpion

[ElectricBadger]

oh... preview edit... Badger... you're stalling... Why are we not prepared for a lynch? Tell me what responses of XScorpion make him look town. Read them and tell me.

Wha huh?

I was the one pushing to get the claim formality out of the way and finish the day; you were the one we were all waiting on for a response. What makes you think I'm not ready for a lynch?

[Kdub]

Let's hear an official claim from XScorpion first. I don't think I should say any more info about why at the moment until he claims.

[alexhans]

oh... preview edit... Badger... you're stalling... Why are we not prepared for a lynch? Tell me what responses of XScorpion make him look town. Read them and tell me.

Wha huh?

I was the one pushing to get the claim formality out of the way and finish the day; you were the one we were all waiting on for a response. What makes you think I'm not ready for a lynch?

I don't support demanding a claim when we're not prepared to lynch. As per the arguments with Starbuck, that can only harm town.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: That's your quote, Starbucks...

Anyway... I might be unable to post for a couple of days depending on wether I need to get hosptialized for an injury I have. I will post tonight or tomorrow If I don't. Else, bear with me for a couple of days.

Thanks.

[ElectricBadger]

At that point only myself and kunkstar had expressed willingness to lynch. With less than a majority, we as a group weren't threatening a lynch, and thus demanding a claim was pre-emptive. As I said, I was waiting on you, per 257:

Kunk and Alex - are you firm enough in your suspicions to ask X for a claim?

Kdub mentioned demanding a claim -before- deciding to lynch. I don't agree with that notion for the same reason I didn't claim myself on d1.

[XScorpion]

Fine, I'll claim.
I'm cop, but it doesn't matter because if town doesn't kill me today, mafia will. I investigated CSL, thinking that he was lying about being a doctor and the real doctor didn't want to claim. Obviously that was stupid, but w/e, it doesn't matter anymore since I'm already dead either way.

[ElectricBadger]

Kdub... what are you expecting from XScorpion? A cop claim? You'd like a counterclaim then? Because XScorpion is obviously NOT the cop at this point or he would've claimed it instead of calling for his own lynch because no one was posting.

This. Although the obvious fake claim makes me happier about lynching you.

Vote: Xscorpion.

[Kdub]

I wanted to see either a vanilla claim or a clearly false cop claim before I was ready to lynch. I think XScorpion's claim falls into the latter category. Had he claimed cop with plausible results, there would have been room for more discussion.

Vote: XScorpion