888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Jaime Marcelle]

I call bullshit. When Leon claimed, you said that 'perfectly average aquanaut' did not sound like it came from a real role pm. If you really were a VT, that would be in your role PM as well. Care to explain?

I thought that he was claiming that his name was "Merely avarage aquanaut" instead of "able seaman" and I was pushing him for that because I remembered mine as saying Able seaman. However, since I haven't looked at my role PM in a while I forgot about that whole part in parenthisis. I know... I'm an idiot -facepalm-

[Claude Lefevre]

Okay, sorry for the delay, here come my comments.

First, I don't see it as very unrealistic that all of us except scum -who are obviously lying- are actually nilla's. In fact, we lost enough PR's to make this possible.

Second, I don't like it when a player directly after the end of the night suddenly states "I was V/LA" as Leon does in his post #695. I call this scummy.

Moreover, I do not like the fact that he proposed to interrupt the massclaim. "Oh my, we all claimed nilla! If the last player claims uncounterclaimed PR he will be almost clear " thinks Scummy Scummson "let's try and stop the massclaim". This argument I can use against Leon, but also against Jaime, who, to my surprise, agreed in interrupting the massclaim.

Also, I think Edward has a good point about Jaime's "merely-idiosyncrasy" and the answer by Jaime... well, it's divided into two parts.
First part: "I forgot the content of my own PM" --> I think any townie who tries building a case on a misquoted PM would go check his own.
Second part: "I though he meant it was his name instead of able seaman" --> this sounds like a not very convincing excuse to me.

Finally, a sidenote about Spencer's role. Dude, you do have a special power, can't you see? I bet we all are leaning towards believing you are town, because "come on, who would invent such an incredible and pointless story?"... This is your special power: you are the closest to be cleared among us. If the mod ignores your request, some of us will prolly believe that your story is true. If you are scum, this may be a very good move.

[malthusis]

Note to all: I just found out I forgot to give an updated flavor PM to Spencer's replacement, so I'm updating the PM with some different info right now.

(sorry)

[Spencer Remmington]

k, update is that I am indeed Spencer Remmington, rank of Seaman, and I am told that I have no abilities since I just joined.

Asking if I can claim the old name.

[Spencer Remmington]

Finally, a sidenote about Spencer's role. Dude, you do have a special power, can't you see? I bet we all are leaning towards believing you are town, because "come on, who would invent such an incredible and pointless story?"... This is your special power: you are the closest to be cleared among us. If the mod ignores your request, some of us will prolly believe that your story is true. If you are scum, this may be a very good move.

I was well aware of this, but it'd be rather bad if I said it myself, ne? Of course, lampshading it also takes out the usefulness. At this point the fact my PM is a little weird is effectively a null tell.

First, I don't see it as very unrealistic that all of us except scum -who are obviously lying- are actually nilla's. In fact, we lost enough PR's to make this possible.

Remind me to say something about this post game.

First part: "I forgot the content of my own PM" --> I think any townie who tries building a case on a misquoted PM would go check his own.
Second part: "I though he meant it was his name instead of able seaman" --> this sounds like a not very convincing excuse to me.

i'm...leaning to agree, but if Jaime is town, it's dumb town, which would allow for this (no offense Jaime)

[Jaime Marcelle]

This argument I can use against Leon, but also against Jaime, who, to my surprise, agreed in interrupting the massclaim.

I did not agree. How do you get this. I did say that it was odd that 7 people are nilla townies but I NEVER did say we should stop the massclaim.

i'm...leaning to agree, but if Jaime is town, it's dumb town, which would allow for this (no offense Jaime)

No offence taken. In fact I kind of agree You can not imagine the magnitude of the facepalm I made when I noticed my mistake.

[Edward Smilie]

Okay, sorry for the delay, here come my comments.

First, I don't see it as very unrealistic that all of us except scum -who are obviously lying- are actually nilla's. In fact, we lost enough PR's to make this possible.

The thing that intrigues me here is the balance. Of course, we don't know what Otto's role was exactly. 9-2-1 with cop seems overpowered for town. 8-3-1 with cop seems insanely swingy, since an early cop death makes the town WP drop like a stone.

Moreover, I do not like the fact that he proposed to interrupt the massclaim. "Oh my, we all claimed nilla! If the last player claims uncounterclaimed PR he will be almost clear " thinks Scummy Scummson "let's try and stop the massclaim". This argument I can use against Leon, but also against Jaime, who, to my surprise, agreed in interrupting the massclaim.

Makes zero sense as a scum thought process. 1) Knock on wood, but i'm hardly in the firing line today. 2) If I hypothetically were this mystery power role, and got run up, well pretty sure I could claim it then.

Also, as Jaime notes, you are misrepresenting him by saying he supported stopping massclaim.

First part: "I forgot the content of my own PM" --> I think any townie who tries building a case on a misquoted PM would go check his own.

A question: In what scenario do you see a scum trying to build a case on a townie on the grounds that said townie's flavor doesn't fit? The more I think about it, the more that sounds like it would require a greater degree of stupidity than the protown explanation.

Second part: "I though he meant it was his name instead of able seaman" --> this sounds like a not very convincing excuse to me.

Though if you go back and reread the actual comment, as I just did, it does give the impression that Jaime thinks that is the actual rolename Leon claimed. (Yes, Leon, THIS is backtracking. Like I said, on deeper reflection, Jaime's actions make even less sense for scum than they do for town).

I bet we all are leaning towards believing you are town, because "come on, who would invent such an incredible and pointless story?"... .

Well, quite. Why would a scum who is almost certainly not going to be lynched today bother coming up with something like that? I mean, it's wifom, but in my experience scum tend not to try to pull wifom when they're not in any danger.

Fixed the triple-post for you.

[Claude Lefevre]

Edward sez my theory for the attempted interruption of the mass claim makes no sense. He is right. But then why would anyone try to interrupt it?

also: I misinterpreted post #696 by Jaime. I thought he meant he agreed to interrupt the mass claim. He was just agreeing on the "too many nilla's" problem. I withdraw it and apologise: ESL.

Finally: I don't understand why Spencer's replacement was supposed to receive an updated pm. Tbh, what I really don't understand is why mod is telling us this... but fine, as weird as the thing may be, I am now almost convinced that Spencer is in fact town.

And Spencer being very likely town has some consequences that make be believe we are actually not on lylo. Now I have no time now, but I am going to explain later.

[Spencer Remmington]

No response from the mod yet. I don't see anything to respond to. I shall wait for Claude's theory, which he would understandably want to make since his neck is basically the one on the line if there are two scum left.

[Claude Lefevre]

No. I have no theory whatsoever. Only my point of view. Knowing that I am town, and giving Edward and Spencer for almost clear, I can see no way for Jaime and Leon to be buddies. Nothing illuminating from the point of view of you all.

If you decide to lynch me today - but I honestly don't understand why -, I will not cry so loud, since I am very much convinced that we are not on lylo. I'd just hope the next choice would be the right one. At the moment my vote would be on Leon.

Since I do not understand the case on me - even if I can see a couple of dumb moves I did back in game, and namely my "trap" and the questions I asked yesterday - I would like to have a summary of it. Would it be okay if I called an order for you guys to post it? It could be useful tomorrow if I do end up dying.

[Spencer Remmington]

That's the hell of it Claude. You basically are the only logical partner for either Jaime or Leon. Effectively, you are the best lynch through process of elimination. It's not really even a case. And it makes me feel bad to have to resort to that but...yeah.

[malthusis]

We don't have any votes to do a votecount but just a note: The deadline is 2 weeks from the start of the day (which means it is the 29th of January).

[Edward Smilie]

Since I do not understand the case on me - even if I can see a couple of dumb moves I did back in game, and namely my "trap" and the questions I asked yesterday - I would like to have a summary of it. Would it be okay if I called an order for you guys to post it? It could be useful tomorrow if I do end up dying.

There's absolutely no reason to think you town.

You were on the first two townwagons, and jumped both right in the middle of the pack.

When the chance to wagon a scum (Emile) came along, you were instrumental in instead pushing the counterwagon on a town player. That you turned around and hammered at the last moment doesn't mitigate that at all- in fact, hammering a scum without giving him chance to claim is often an associative tell, since the buddy is desperate to be seen on the wagon.

Basically, you've done very little to stand out, which is scummy, and the few things you've done which have, have been... well, scummy.

You've done nothing inexplicable from a town POV, but your overall play fits better the mold of a reasonably competent scum trying to avoid attracting attention than a town player trying to find scum.

Mod: should this triple post again, could you fix? MY computer is a nightmare.

[Claude Lefevre]

I agree. There is no reason.

I'll add one thing: some pages ago we discussed about how many scums were in this game. Jaime was extremely convinced when he answered "3 + Gerhard". Now everyone is convinced that we still have 2 scums. I keep believing that this is a mistake.

I still believe that there were very likely 3 scums in total, including Gerhard.

There is also another thing. Observe that the main argument clearing Jaime depends on the idea that we have 2 scums left.

That said, my "virtual vote" remains on Leon, whom I beg to post some content. But do not forget that once I flip town and the game goes on, Jaime will have no alibi.

[Jaime Marcelle]

Ok, first of all I should say that I'm sorry for not posting at all yesterday but I forgot about something that caused me to be V/LA yesterday.

Anyway, I would like to hear more from Spencer about why he needed an updated PM. From the looks of it it just looks like some flavor in his PM changed but who knows. We've got nothing to lose.

Next up is Claude. Claude: Why do you feel so strongly that we have only 1 scum? Granted I'm sort of thinking that too (quick night. If there were multiple scum they would want to have it longer) but as town you always want to plan for the worst (Jeez I sound like a parrot ). Is there anything else that suggests to you that there is only one scum alive?

[Claude Lefevre]

yes, Jaime, but given the situation from my point of view the scum is most likely either you or Leon. And I do not think you could be team-buddies.

[Jaime Marcelle]

yes, Jaime, but given the situation from my point of view the scum is most likely either you or Leon. And I do not think you could be team-buddies.

So Spencer and Edward are clear, 100%? Granted Spencer is almost confirmed because of the mods post (it pretty much verified that what Spencer was saying was true) and Edward is pretty damned pro-town it does not mean that they aren't scum.

[Claude Lefevre]

pro-town-ness is all I have to work with, and I do not see any reason to think Edward should be scum. As for Spencer, come again, can you articulate more? You believe that he may be scum even though mod confirmed his story?

[Claude Lefevre]

I forgot: V/LA for 24 hours from now.

[Spencer Remmington]

The name I had in the PM was changed. I've been...encouraged not to claim the old name since at that point I'm probably engaging in jackassery wrt using my role PM to confirm myself. As far as I know, that is the only change to my PM.

Honestly, a Claude lynch probably does make the most sense. If he's not scum it's far more likely Jaime is (assuming the game goes on)

[Jaime Marcelle]

First of all, sorry for the double post (You're not the only one Edward )

pro-town-ness is all I have to work with, and I do not see any reason to think Edward should be scum. As for Spencer, come again, can you articulate more? You believe that he may be scum even though mod confirmed his story?

Even though Spencer is highly likely not scum you can't rule him out comepletely just yet. Last time I checked the thing the mod said was "I just found out I forgot to give an updated flavor PM to Spencer's replacement, so I'm updating the PM with some different info right now." Note that this does not state that Spencer is town. It simply states that his flavor was updated. Scum can have a flavor update too ya know...

Also, I never did state that you should think Edward/Spencer are scum. I was saying that you should not say that there is only one scum based off of who is acting scum and who is acting like town.[/quote]

Fixed BOTH double posts.

[Leon Dreyfus]

Yet another slip by Jaime and we get nothing? /facepalm

[Jaime Marcelle]

Yet another slip by Jaime and we get nothing? /facepalm

Where? I see nothing of interest in my latest post (At least from my PoV). Care to enlighten me?

Also, I think it's cute how you've been V/LA For 8 days and give a sub-par AT BEST post and then dissapear for another 5 days and only come in with this. Extreme active-lurking anyone?

[Leon Dreyfus]

I call bullshit. When Leon claimed, you said that 'perfectly average aquanaut' did not sound like it came from a real role pm. If you really were a VT, that would be in your role PM as well. Care to explain?

I thought that he was claiming that his name was "Merely avarage aquanaut" instead of "able seaman" and I was pushing him for that because I remembered mine as saying Able seaman. However, since I haven't looked at my role PM in a while I forgot about that whole part in parenthisis. I know... I'm an idiot -facepalm-

Honestly facepalmed when I read this. Here's your mistake, it's one thing to fess to it, but lying to cover your tracks makes it WORSE.

And lurking=/=scummy, there's nothing really to reply to except tunneling and speculation. No one has even as much as mentioned you really, besides Edward.

Spencer is cleared. Claude or you, money NORMALLY would be on Claude, but I just cannot get over the mountain of slips.

[Jaime Marcelle]

And lurking=/=scummy

Does anyone else see this? Leon, please, PLEASE explain why you say this because I cannot think of any reason why lurking is not considered scummy.

Spencer is cleared. Claude or you, money NORMALLY would be on Claude, but I just cannot get over the mountain of slips.

No, No, no. Spencer is not clear. Clear means that he is 100% town. Even though Spencer is PROBABLY town as confirmed by the mod, he is not 100% clear (at least not yet).