Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[SerialClergyman]

Ugh. I don't know. Was it the wrong thing to do? Maybe I should have kept being vague and saying gut. I could hardly say 'yes it was a slip, but for super secretive reasons'. Zzz.

What would you have done? Just lumped it?

[Ojanen]

I thought it was obvious what you were referencing, in true Serial breadcrumbing style, but it seems it wasn't to others?

et tu, Ojanen?

turns knife

I am reading isos right now.
Noone inside the group that contains scum going after DLA is interesting, btw.
Is there any reason I've forgotten why Kise+DLA would seem unlikely?
I am at loss with the townreads so I'm arrempting pair-reading.
Still need a little time.

[Ojanen]

Funny to see later if I mindread Serial's code.
iautttsiapotfn.

I also used to think that scigatt is a part of the friendly nighttalkers.

Serial, my head isn't working that clear at the moment, sorry if you have to repeat, but: who do you think Budja is partners with?

[farside22]

Ugh. I don't know. Was it the wrong thing to do? Maybe I should have kept being vague and saying gut. I could hardly say 'yes it was a slip, but for super secretive reasons'. Zzz.

What would you have done? Just lumped it?

I would have stuck with gut. That said I did state I could see it as a scum slip but didn't pounce on it as my view is directed at budja right now. Call it tunnell, call it what you want if hewitt is scum it narrows down things to only 2 players being scum and I like those odds right now.

[Ojanen]

Ok. We have still 3 days before deadline.
I am at renewed unrest about DLA, although he's not an obvious seeming scumpartner to Serial or hewitt/Budja.
I am not gonna switch my vote tonight.
If I had to do it right now between Budja and Serial it would be Budja, based on pairing possibilities inside Kise/DLA/Serial/Budja(/Scigatt).
The content I'm expressing right now is thinner than I'd like, but I need to rest.
Kise, I'm not ignoring your questions, I'll get to them tomorrow, looking at other stuff seemed more relevant.

[Ellibereth]

Ugh. I disagree with the mason read on Sci, TBH I've been thinking it was Kise for quite a while, and I still do.
EDIT: Ok...looked at Sci and Saber in ISO, I feel more town now, but no mason. Bleh.
Another ugh is that gut is leaning town on Budja...
Which leaves: Serial, DLA. Which seems so seriously wrong.
Ugh, I would be fine with either of the above two lynched today. Maybe Budja since my read on his is irrational as hell...

[Ellibereth]

Budja, can you link to any games you've replaced into when the games have had greater than 40 pages. kthx

[SerialClergyman]

farside, fair enough. But it's also trying to defend something by saying it wasn't a slip when it was and you know why you made it was driving me mad.

Ojanen, I think Kise and budja are the scum team.

Kise's distancing made me think twice in them iddle of the day, so I persued some other possibles (and DLA is an option, I suppose, except that he also voted for Kise out of the blue. Mind you, he's back on me now, so *shrug*).

But when Budja came in, I've seen his input as stereotypical scumpartner with Kise. Chose to vote me and declare Kise town, clearly hasn't read the thread thoroughly, hasn't talked since really etc etc. Kise making noise about switching without having the guts to place his vote and suddenly coolign off the budja case.

So that's where I am on the teams.

[farside22]

farside, fair enough. But it's also trying to defend something by saying it wasn't a slip when it was and you know why you made it was driving me mad.

Ojanen, I think Kise and budja are the scum team.

Kise's distancing made me think twice in them iddle of the day, so I persued some other possibles (and DLA is an option, I suppose, except that he also voted for Kise out of the blue. Mind you, he's back on me now, so *shrug*).

But when Budja came in, I've seen his input as stereotypical scumpartner with Kise. Chose to vote me and declare Kise town, clearly hasn't read the thread thoroughly, hasn't talked since really etc etc. Kise making noise about switching without having the guts to place his vote and suddenly coolign off the budja case.

So that's where I am on the teams.

I would rather not discuss who I think the last Mason is thanks very much.
If you continue acting like your feelings are hurt and force me to discuss this further I will be changing my vote. This isn't an idle threat. This is what I think is best for the town stance.

[SerialClergyman]

Wow, awesome threat for no reason. My feelings aren't hurt, I was just put in a very difficult position. I'm not askign you if you agree or want to discuss it further, I'm telling you why I had to say what I said, which was a direct answer to a question YOU asked me.

So no more discussion of it would be fine by me.

[farside22]

Wow, awesome threat for no reason. My feelings aren't hurt, I was just put in a very difficult position. I'm not askign you if you agree or want to discuss it further, I'm telling you why I had to say what I said, which was a direct answer to a question YOU asked me.

So no more discussion of it would be fine by me.

Why would you think trying to show who you think to be mason in order to save yourself is a town action?

[Ellibereth]

OK, I actually don't want a Budja lynch today.
My vote prob stays on Serial.

[farside22]

OK, I actually don't want a Budja lynch today.
My vote prob stays on Serial.

Any more reason? Why the gut town on budja. Thoughts on SC as why scum.

[Ojanen]

Ah, what the hell. Couldn't sleep. Sorry for only semi-relevant stuff.

That was self-ironical language, they aren't loony to me.

So who are they looney to, then?

..ok, didn't think this was worth replying to. Generally it's a little deviant to have townreads on such a large percentage of players. Just colourful language relating to me feeling foolish about expressing it.

Kise, could you tell more exactly in which way SC feels different to you compared to the large theme you mentioned?

Nothing specific I can put my finger on. Seems like his demeanor is different is all.

No seriously, any adjectives or anything, in which way different demeanor? I'd be genuinely interested.

It seems like you suspect players a lot based on their inactivity. You had Shotty & kiku as scum reads since day 1 and stuck to your guns for most of day2 on those 2 being scum and everyone else as townish.

First point is just plain inaccurate. Yes, kiku and Shotty was who I was suspecting D2. I'm not sure how the second sentence relates to the first one, and if it doesn't what's the point.

The significance of QT talking baffles me since we would have both been in the game already on N1, and we didn't agree on everything D1.

Um, you both

were

here in the game by the time N1 came.. And when I mentioned QT earlier, I was hinting at a discussion you two may have had as scum N2 to tone down the buddying.

Yes, yes, Kise that was my point that we were both already in the game before N1 so I you hinting about a supposed attitude change N2 because of possibility if nighttalking because you were saying we were agreeing on everything pre-D3 seemed not accurate. So I pointed out we would have had opportunity to nighttalk already before, and that we didn't agree on everything D1.

Nah, if you talk about suspicion of you, check my posts. I had you as no.2 already before anyone else had posted on D3.

For inactivity alone, or was there something I said at the end of D2, or other reason? I think answering farside's question ties in with this.

Well this was from my sum up of stuff in beginning of D3:
"Looking at votecount end of D1, the 4 people off-wagon were Shotty, farside, hewitt and Kise's slot. Shotty's town, farside's I believe town, hewitt doesn't really fit scumbuddy behaviour either - if there was scum off-wagon, I'd definitively call it the Kise slot. PoE springs this slot high up to suspicion slot. Yarmond's silence was null though, looking him up he has 0 gameposts on mafiascum."
Since then there was a bunch of arguments between us. Blah. Just kind of feeling like you were trying to take advantage of the easiest possible avenues, like a supposed scum-scum link between me and Serial, or looking at the most obvious connections to Neto that can be seen, like Serial "admitting" to be bussing, or getting expressing scumreads on hewitt/Serial and connecting them as pairs to the first person who questioned your reasoning (hewitt-farside pairing for example). That kind of stuff.

Oh, and

I need to understand why he was #1 on your list [OJ].

There you go.
I'm no longer crazy about that, obviously.

[SerialClergyman]

Why would you think trying to show who you think to be mason in order to save yourself is a town action?

Many people thought there was a scum slip from me when in reality the slip had very different motivations. I was trying to get people to see that so they can't use the reasoning of a scum slip to get me lynched. Maybe you'd have done differently in my position but that's how I chose to act. I don't know if I'd do it again given how effective it was, but so it goes. I think I overestimated how important the slip was to votes against me.

[SerialClergyman]

Speaking of which, I think that scum specifrically are setting me up right now. Kise pushed the slip angle harder than most and used it to try to weasel a SC lynch yesterday. Elli continues to give no reasons for any of his reads, nor does Budja.

It should be obvious by this point I have no friends in this town, given even Ojanen seems to have turned.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, enough dreariness.

Budja, where you at? Can you let me know how much of the thread you've read and give a more detailed case on me?

Kise, why no vote on me without farside?

Elli, can you provide your reasoning for any read that you've got at the moment? Now that the slip has been explained, how does that affect your view of me if at all? Who's my partner?

farside, if you think I'm scum with Budja, why not just switch votes with Kise and lynch me like he suggested yesterday? Do you think Budja is just more likely? How likely is the Kise/DLA team looking at the moment?

DLA, where are you? Thoughts? Reasons for thoughts?

[farside22]

Why would you think trying to show who you think to be mason in order to save yourself is a town action?

Many people thought there was a scum slip from me when in reality the slip had very different motivations. I was trying to get people to see that so they can't use the reasoning of a scum slip to get me lynched. Maybe you'd have done differently in my position but that's how I chose to act. I don't know if I'd do it again given how effective it was, but so it goes. I think I overestimated how important the slip was to votes against me.

AtE much?

farside, if you think I'm scum with Budja, why not just switch votes with Kise and lynch me like he suggested yesterday? Do you think Budja is just more likely? How likely is the Kise/DLA team looking at the moment?

I'm torn between you or kise as scum. I don't feel confident either way and again if budja flips scum this mean to me a 50/50 shot at the remaining scum between you or kise.
If budja isn't town I start looking more at kise/DLA scum team as I don't see anyone else you could be scum with.

[Ojanen]

Sleepless and defiant ugh.
It's not easy to see Serial scum with Kise, or DLA (or even Scigatt) scum.
It's not

that

easy to see Budja with them either, but it's easier.
I maintain strongly the possibility of Kise/DLA.
Elli, who's scum with Serial?
Since we seem to be fixed to picking from these sides, mine is

vote: Budja

Votecount should be now Budja L-1, Serial L-2.
I'm scared that Serial is scum since I can't seem to rely on my normal modus operandi in this game (resulting to irrational amount of townreads), and some of his actions can be read as self-preservational. But he feels wrong.
I'm scared because hewitt feels wrong too, but what can one do.

[Ellibereth]

some random crap while skimming..
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 25#1997625: This post felt wierd to me, hewitt didn't fly into a rage over CSL's anti-contributive post.
Posts like these make me lean town on DLA, don't ask why:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 39#1999339
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50#1999350
This also feels off, He had ignored Oj case completely...: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 489#201048
And the following gives me some doubts about hewittscum, not sure here though:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 28#2012328

I may be changing my mind on budja for the nth time. Agree with farside that most likely partner for budja is Serial and vice versa.

[Ellibereth]

I was liking Saber early on, lots of wagon hopping but very transparently with a typical Saber-chaos feel (meta).
Then he lurked and went into bet-mode.

I don't remember Sabre lurking D1

[Ellibereth]

I'm prepared to hammer Budja whenever, I may not be around the DL, not sure for my schedule that day.

[Ellibereth]

Combination of Sabre having never bussed before as scum, some of his general attitude makes me agree that he's prob town. I'm also less worried about the stats because he made an error with a correction...so he probably wasn't just copypasting.
Neto's early attitude toward DLA makes me uneasy. While his overall "attitude feel vibes" thingy feels town to me, some of his posts are just so....meh....

Yeah, all in all, between Budja Serial Dla for me.

[Ellibereth]

Serial, have you used that type of breadcrumbing somewhere before?

[SerialClergyman]

This constant linking me to budja and back when we're both voting each other on opposite wagons is frustrating.

I have, but only in an ongoing game. The last time I tried to use a more traditional breadcrumb was in Amished Mafia where I Jailkept Ojanen and tried to make it known by being subtle, and was terribly bad at it, saying something like 'I think Ojanen is either REALLY scum or REALLY town'.

Needless to say, out of shame I'm trying to improve my breadcrumbing and this seems like a decent way - stolen from Hoopla.

Is the hammering talk a little quick? Is there no chance we're looking at Kise/DLA today?