Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[Vaya]

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think that Glork's interaction and 'buddying' with me is more likely to be scum to scum than it is scum to town. Scum side with people they know are town all the time, and Glork-scum would have plenty of motive to side with me-town like this. It makes him look good not pushing the mislynch if I were lynched and I flipped town, and on the off-chance he would die first, his interaction with me could help incriminate me and help my lynch along.

I agree with you if you and SSK are both town (e.g. SSK is an insane daycop, and UK was roleblocked), but I disagree with you if we're operating under the assumption that one of you is scum. Not that that's an impossibility.

For the record, I actually don't think it's unlikely that we're both town, that SSK is sanity challenged and Kitten was blocked.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, I will wait one day for a massclaim.

Honestly, it isn't massclaim that I'm communicating I want to put off. I'm ambivalent about that, though I doubt massclaiming will be a net-positive for town, so I still think we should wait at least until mylo or lylo, ideally.

Rather, I want you to be vague about what may or may not have happened to you N1 for the time being. Please also keep this request in mind if you are asked to claim or choose to claim before I do.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: There's maybe an apparent disconnect in there from your perspective, I guess, but I just wanted to make clear what my concern was in the event that I was too ambiguous earlier.

[UncertainKitten]

Occam's razor? Are you serious?

You are saying that...the chance that there is a RB in this game...and the chance that of all people and claimed roles to target...they targeted you...is the the simplest answer?

And not...you know, SSK just not BEING a role with sanity involved?

FoS: UK

You know what?

Unvote, Vote SP

A roleblock makes more sense if Vaya and SSK are both town. And you are pretty obv. scummy for trying to discredit this. You do realize that if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town? I think it makes a LOT OF DAMNED SENSE to RB me.

[SocioPath]

You know what?

Unvote, Vote SP

A roleblock makes more sense if Vaya and SSK are both town. And you are pretty obv. scummy for trying to discredit this. You do realize that if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town? I think it makes a LOT OF DAMNED SENSE to RB me.

Your logic does not even begin to make sense.
Now you are saying it would be likely two confirmed towns if you weren't RB'd?
...Despite the 'fact' that SSK has a claimed guilty on Vaya.

And with all the claimed roles so far...YOURS is the one thats OH SO IMPORTANT that would need RB'd?


Am I the only one in this game that didn't get a RBing Copping role?!

[Iecerint]

I see where you're coming from, UK, but it is literally very hard to beat the glory that is Almacrumb.

[Iecerint]

Also: SP is officially very annoying.

[SocioPath]

Also: SP is officially very annoying.

How so?

[Iecerint]

[UncertainKitten]

You know what?

Unvote, Vote SP

A roleblock makes more sense if Vaya and SSK are both town. And you are pretty obv. scummy for trying to discredit this. You do realize that if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town? I think it makes a LOT OF DAMNED SENSE to RB me.

Your logic does not even begin to make sense.
Now you are saying it would be likely two confirmed towns if you weren't RB'd?
...Despite the 'fact' that SSK has a claimed guilty on Vaya.

And with all the claimed roles so far...YOURS is the one thats OH SO IMPORTANT that would need RB'd?


Am I the only one in this game that didn't get a RBing Copping role?!

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.

Again, two confirmeds is KINDA BIG. Since we kinda can't trust the cops. I'm pretty sure a sanity checker would be sane though.

I see where you're coming from, UK, but it is literally very hard to beat the glory that is Almacrumb.

I know. I plan to vote him after I get a VC, provided he's not at L-1.

[SocioPath]

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.

Again, two confirmeds is KINDA BIG. Since we kinda can't trust the cops. I'm pretty sure a sanity checker would be sane though.

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.
TWO CONFIRMED TOWN?
LIKELY?
You are saying that the most likely scenario is SSK is insane.
And that his results on Vaya were WRONG.
And that HE is TOWN...somehow...

[Pomegranate]

Reading up now. Post later.

[UncertainKitten]

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.
TWO CONFIRMED TOWN?
LIKELY?
You are saying that the most likely scenario is SSK is insane.
And that his results on Vaya were WRONG.
And that HE is TOWN...somehow...

Bastard game, etc.

Why is SSK scum? You never did answer this.

[SocioPath]

Bastard game, etc.

So...you think your role...will confirm ANYTHING...let alone TWO TOWN...in a BASTARD GAME?

Cause the one thing that everyone knows about bastard games is how confirmable everything is...

Why is SSK scum? You never did answer this.

In addition to what I said about him at the end of the day yesterday, I thought he response to you was rather construed:

Kay. Winblows hacker for Linux. I can use a script to see someone's alignment. Once I have used that script,which I did yesterday,I turn have a red flag set on my computer and thusly investigate Guilty. This is why I am sure Vaya is guilty, it would be the most bastardish thing for a mod to do for my result not to be sane.

This was after your:

Wish I could tell you something.


SSK, fullclaim.

I got no result on him.

I shall claim myself

I'm a sanity checker. Obviously I was hoping to get a sane or insane result on SSK. Since I got neither, and in fact, no result at all, I can tell you nothing about Vaya OR SSK. Hence why I want a fullclaim. I could go for a Vaya lynch.

Though reading what just happened, an Alma lynch is also acceptable.

But yeah, I'd like SSK to claim precisely why Vaya was "guilty"

It looked like he thought you implied 'gotcha scum', and he responded with 'oh well when I use my role I'll go guilty thats why'.

It sounded like he was trying to explain your result on him because he thought your 'no result' was a guilty at the time.

[UncertainKitten]

It looked like he thought you implied 'gotcha scum', and he responded with 'oh well when I use my role I'll go guilty thats why'.

It sounded like he was trying to explain your result on him because he thought your 'no result' was a guilty at the time.

That's...damned good logic. I'm surprised I missed that.

/me sighs.

Unvote

Waiting for a votecount, liable to vote Alma, SSK as second.

So...you think your role...will confirm ANYTHING...let alone TWO TOWN...in a BASTARD GAME?

Cause the one thing that everyone knows about bastard games is how confirmable everything is...

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

[SocioPath]

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

But,
If your result was SSK is sane, then Vaya would be scum.
If your result was SSK is insane, Vaya would be town.

In neither scenario do you determine SSK's alignment.

So I find your statement of:

if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town

as inaccurate.

[Iecerint]

I don't think SSK's claim implies "sanity-check" immunity. It's possible he was hoping someone would extrapolate that for him, I guess, but it'd still be inconsistent with UK's result.

Sanity checker being insane in a bastard game, kinda like the flavor deliberately failing to reflect N1 events, stops being bastard and starts approaching silly.

[Pomegranate]

Good catch, Iec- Vaya seems scummy from here. Also, as you pointed out, Alma.

Can you ask the Mod for confirmation on that point?

Glork supported Vaya much more than SSK, but he sometimes did it to really absurd degrees --

I love Vaya's posting so far. I really do. Many of his thoughts eerily parallel my own, and he's actually digging into the crux of why I voted Pom to begin with. He's very vote-hoppy right now (three vote changes between Posts 356 and 375), but that's not a point against his alignment.

He also tended to attack SSK over Vaya --

Even if this were a NORMAL game, if a player came out D1 and seriously said they had role-based information to make them 99% certain, you'd want that information out as soon as possible. If SSK is telling the truth and his information can be trusted, we'd be guaranteed a result. If SSK thinks he's telling the truth but his information cannot be trusted, we can gain valuable information about the bastardly nature of the game. If SSK is bullshitting us, we're passing up a golden opportunity to put a scumbag under the microscope on D1.

I'm going to side with Vaya here (SOUND THE MUTUAL BUDDYING ALARMS) and point out what's wrong with SSK's behavior.
1) SSK is claiming to be 99% certain of another player's alignment on D1 of a bastard game. This is... extremely curious to say the least, and I'm not willing to buy into it at all without knowing what can make him so certain of that information in this particular game. Any number of things could go wrong with this. Millers. Death Millers. Cop sanity issues. Changing alignments. Redirections. Scum Protections/Abilities. "Insane" Doctors.

2) SSK claims to have important information but won't reveal it because he doesn't want to be made a target by the scums. I can't even begin to explain how terrible play this is. If the day were to end right here and now, with pseudo-information claimed, that puts SSK at the

MOST

risk of getting nightkilled (if indeed he is legit). Why? Because A) potential Docs/Jailkeepers/Etc. don't know whether they should be protecting him; and B) The Scums can send important information (whether it is accurate or not) to the grave with SSK.
--I don't want anybody to answer this in-game, but I have two rhetorical question for each of you to ponder, given what SSK has said and given the nature of the game: If you were a Doctor, would you be inclined to protect him tonight? If you were Scum, and knew/believed/assumed SSK was not part of your group, would you be inclined to kill SSK tonight?

I'm not saying that I think SSK is scum. Nor am I saying that I think Vaya is town. Fact is, I don't know what either one is (or even what they *might* be), and I'm concerned that some players are being very headstrong, assuming that a pile of partial "information" will give them clarity in what is very clearly a complex game.

He's not being at all subtle in the Vaya defense, which is odd. (Maybe that last paragraph is intended to moderate the defense a little bit.) Still, I have an easier time believing that he is scumfriends with Vaya than with SSK.

Unvote; Vote: Vaya

If SSK is scum, I think there may be two scumteams (Winusers and MSpersons).

I'm not going to argue with the mod, but yes, I'm still in favor of a massclaim.

Okay, I changed my mind.

I am going to argue with the mod.

Excuse me, Mr. Mod. I've beaten one-player Super Mario without using cheats, and I utterly fail to see how that's a relevant metaphor for a massclaim. I didn't join the game to break it and I didn't join the game to get on your good side; I joined the game to have fun and to win. I'm not having much fun yet (not knowing how far I can trust my win condition makes it difficult for me to enjoy a game), but I intend to win, and I know I will obtain satisfaction from winning and I know I will obtain satisfaction if I break your setup. As for the spirit of the game, I don't think I'm obligated to play in a certain way because of your opinion of some intangible, relative 'spirit of the game'; rather, I think you're obligated to create that through role mechanics and flavor. Besides, what the hell flavor am I supposed to take away from administering a Windows network? I think I am playing according to the spirit of the game. I could easily imagine a Windows network administrator trying to break this setup.

Still in favor of a massclaim.

I don't think that we can brake the game by massclaim, sitting on D2. I played in the only other game modded by Sly- and though it was an open game, the modding was good, and I trust that Sly made a game not so easily broken. So, no, I don't like the idea of your massclaim. I will only cooperate if entirely necessary.

I don't think you get what I'm saying here. The guilty result is null, without any reason to trust he's sane(or trust him for that matter), it's not any reason at all to vote me.

SP is doing a good job of pushing me to believe the result more.

I agree with this. SSK is scum because you didn't get a result, even though Glork-scum defended Vaya, whom SSK believes to be scum?

(That last sentence came out weird. Oh well.)

Assuming the case is that you were RB'ed, don't you think you could have been blocked to stop you from clearing me as you were saying you would try to do yesterday? Scum would have just as much motivation to block you if I were town as they would if I were scum.

It's actually a terribly WIFOMrific situation.

I could get behind an Alma lynch and see what happens tonight.

I don't think scum would have the same motivation to block UK if you were town, as opposed to scum. One investigated (and "confirmed", quotes because it's a bastard game) is worse for scum than one "confirmed town".

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.

Again, two confirmeds is KINDA BIG. Since we kinda can't trust the cops. I'm pretty sure a sanity checker would be sane though.

Excuse me? I think you need to reread my post.
TWO CONFIRMED TOWN?
LIKELY?
You are saying that the most likely scenario is SSK is insane.
And that his results on Vaya were WRONG.
And that HE is TOWN...somehow...

Well, I'd assume that a sanity-checker is a role in the game for a reason.

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

But,
If your result was SSK is sane, then Vaya would be scum.
If your result was SSK is insane, Vaya would be town.

In neither scenario do you determine SSK's alignment.

So I find your statement of:

if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town

as inaccurate.

Yes, but I find an insane-cop scum less likely than insane-cop town. I guess that there's no reason to... but I do.

Of the two, I think Vaya is more likely to be scum. But more likely than that, Alma. But I can't check how many votes are on him ATM.

[Iecerint]

Yes, but I find an insane-cop scum less likely than insane-cop town.

What does this mean?

[UncertainKitten]

Again, I'm a sanity CHECKER. I was planning on checking myself after SSK if things went awry. I don't think it was too much of a stretch to trust my results, had I got any.

But,
If your result was SSK is sane, then Vaya would be scum.
If your result was SSK is insane, Vaya would be town.

In neither scenario do you determine SSK's alignment.

So I find your statement of:

if I succeeded I'd likely be making two confirmed town

as inaccurate.

If he was insane, wouldn't that likely show him as likely town? I suppose there's a chance of scum cop but...yeah...

I agree with this. SSK is scum because you didn't get a result, even though Glork-scum defended Vaya, whom SSK believes to be scum?

(That last sentence came out weird. Oh well.)

You do realize

I was voting Vaya

, right? SP is SocioPath.

I don't think scum would have the same motivation to block UK if you were town, as opposed to scum. One investigated (and "confirmed", quotes because it's a bastard game) is worse for scum than one "confirmed town".

What are you saying here?

[Iecerint]

SSK is scum because you didn't get a result, even though Glork-scum defended Vaya, whom SSK believes to be scum?

You do realize

I was voting Vaya

, right? SP is SocioPath.

I didn't get that at first, either. I think you're supposed to read the question as a rhetorical question and with a really incredulous tone. Then it all makes sense.

[UncertainKitten]

I didn't get that at first, either. I think you're supposed to read the question as a rhetorical question and with a really incredulous tone. Then it all makes sense.

I'd like Pom to clarify.

[Iecerint]

k.

(Is that TWO lines of whitespace? O_O)

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, I have a few questions for you.

1. Is you ability one-shot? If not, would you be able to investigate yourself to check your sanity?

2. Why did you not claim miller Day 1? Do you not usually claim when you are a miller?

1. Yes, it is.
2. I thought breadcrumbing would be enough

[Iecerint]

You're welcome to interpret my question for her if it's secretly easy to understand and you have the desire, though.