Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[don_johnson]

9 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 1 ) Flareonage
Flareonage ( 5 ) Snow Bunny Fishythefish manho farside22 don_johnson
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
manho ( 2 ) Ellibereth Juls
Fishythefish ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 1 ) Plumegranate
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 23th 00:01 EST
Lynch Will Be: Flareonage

was i voting manho? i haven't really been paying attention, but flare seems atrocious. of course, i'm not looking much better now, am I?

[Plumegranate]

Post later tonight, hopefully.

[Ellibereth]

Flare claim.

[zoraster]

CORRECTION: Fishy received 5 votes with Juls vote, so he is the lynch target unless a new majority is reached.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Flare

[Flareonage]

it's not gonna help much. I'm a vanilla townie

[Flareonage]

why vote me 3 minutes after asking for a claim? You could've at least waited

[Ellibereth]

CORRECTION: Fishy received 5 votes with Juls vote, so he is the lynch target unless a new majority is reached.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Manho

[Fishythefish]

farside voted for Flare in 542.

@Juls: I didn't quite word that right. You're giving Flare a big benefit of the doubt by writing him off as newbtown. The benefit of the doubt you're not giving to manho - that he is a genuine lurker - seems less far fetched to me. You may have insight from modding, but all but the luckiest games have lurkers, and if you really think it's a scumtell then one of us has an incredibly unrepresentative experience. I suspect that in fact you've recently spent a lot of time reading one extreme example of lurking, and that has skewed your view on the issue.

[Fishythefish]

Sorry for doublepost, forgot to bold that for the mod's attention:

@mod: farside voted for Flare in 542.

corrected, thanks

[Ellibereth]

awshit, if Fishy's town there was probably scum at that end of day wagon change from DRK to Ann.
Need to go reevaluate.

[Plumegranate]

I don't think Fishy is scum. I'd rather lynch flare, manho, or possibly Snow_Bunny.

The fact that two PRs have claimed in the past couple pages is sad. This is D2. I understand why it happened, but I still think it's a pain.

I especially like Fishy's case on Flare- the large amount of votes vs. the small amount of scumhunting, reasoning, and original posting is scummy. The fact that he jumps on

every

bandwagon doesn't look good for him.

Unvote; Vote: Flareonage

.

[manho]

manho – I treat the lurking as a nulltell. And there is little else.
@manho: why is asking for the lynch of a claimed PR a scummy thing to do?

reason for TOWN to ask for a lynch of a claimed pr:
1. he think that the pr is fake claimed
2. can anyone think of another reason??
cost: the town may loss a pr.

reason for SCUM to ask for a lynch of a claimed pr:
1. get rid of the town-pr
2. bussing the fake-claiming scum-buddy
3. get rid of a fake-claiming third party
cost: no direct cost except for the 2nd case.

it is clear that scum has a much higher incentive to get the claimed PR lynched, so it is a scum tell.

[farside22]

I'm going to go thru this game today and baring any server issues will have a post of scum suspects to get this game a push it is sorely in need of.

@Eli: will you please answer my question about if you investigated any other players?

[farside22]

Okay my post are going to be long just going off of my first scum suspect. I'm going to have different post for each one so I don't strain people's eyes with one long post.

Scum suspect plum:

plum has really said anything of much value in the game. In one post plum state he likes anna most recent post and agrees with it but not why. I think the post in which he is saying eli being a bit too obessed with getting people to post as a negative is just weird. Why is wanting people to weight in scummy?
I really don't get the difference here:

Pushing for policy lynches is rarely scummy in and of itself but doing so while pushing for keeping the lynch-ratio high is scummy.

What:

To conclude what my other fruit just said: If he plays anti-Town, I'll try to get him to stop hurting the Town. If he plays scummy, I will vote him and try to get him lynched.

How do you make someone stop hurting the town with their playstyle?

Scumlist:

Elli- is getting better. Keep playing well and there will be an Unvote.
Malp- Scummy posts which has been elaborated on.
DRK- Also scummy.

Juls is town.

No reasons are found for his reads on people and uses others ideas

post and vote in regards to DRK is basically is full of weakness.

DRK's comment about what little Vaya had posted being scummy when Vaya hadn't posted at all is hella scummy. Unvote; Vote: DRK. The response is even scummier. Yes, you can argue that not posting during the pregame is scummy (I'll remain unconvinced it's not among the weakest of scumtells, but that's a different story). You cannot argue that Vaya's posted little and what she's posted was scummy if all she posted was "/confirm". That's the most null thing a player could possibly post. You didn't say his lack of posting was scummy; you said the actual provided content is scummy. Misrep and the backpedal-wimpiness + sudden vote on attacker is majorly scummy

I do agree I saw DRK saying that he didn't want to policy lynch CSL and then backtrack scummy this is the only point I found myself agreeing with.

Reasons plum voted for SB

>SB, I know you lurk sometimes, but I fing it scummy. I know that there are a handful of players who've lurked a lot so far- Tone, manho, Bigmac.... But that's not an excuse. The reason why I'm focusing on you here is because I find you scummy. Basically, Farside's 367.

more posting suspects without reasoning:

I'm having trouble deciding where my vote should go- Flare, manho, or bigmac. What especially troubles me is that this game was supposed to be fast-paced.

FoS: Flareonage, Bigmc

Unvote; Vote: manho.

Reasons for voting bigmc:

Shall I switch my vote to bigmac?

I played with him once as scum before, but I can't remember his play perfectly- I don't think it was that similar, or that different (I fund it hard to tell because of his lurking). The lurking is scummy in it's own right.

Upgrading my FoS to a (

Unvote;

)

Vote Bigmc

.

I don't think Fishy is scum. I'd rather lynch flare, manho, or possibly Snow_Bunny.

The fact that two PRs have claimed in the past couple pages is sad. This is D2. I understand why it happened, but I still think it's a pain.

I especially like Fishy's case on Flare- the large amount of votes vs. the small amount of scumhunting, reasoning, and original posting is scummy. The fact that he jumps on

every

bandwagon doesn't look good for him.

Unvote; Vote: Flareonage

.

I don't understand why SB is a suspect at this point but more BW.

In short Plum's biggest post and points were on DRK after that it's a lot of BW hopping using others POV to jump on and never coming up with a case on his own.
If you feel strongly about someone as scum shouldn't you push your reasons on town and get the game moving?
That question in regards to plum complaining about the pace of the game.

I already did a write up on flare ealier.
Manho has all but disappeared and I don't see a case from Juls on that. This bothers me as well.
Next up Juls

[farside22]

scum suspect Juls:

First big post from juls talks about the policy lynch but not about the game mechanics. I find it odd that someone who is catching up doesn't talk about the mechanics and the best way to move the game in a good direction.

We first place an "insurance lynch" on CSL on the immediate start of D1. This way, assuming we're unable to reach a consensus of lynching a player we deem more likely to be scum, the policy lynch for CSL can comfortably go through with no deadline rush etc. Especially since each day is essentially 7 days.

And I counter that if this situation arises that everyone give their top 2-3 suspects and vote for the one who has the most suspicion rather than getting "behind". It's better than a policy lynch.

If this is how you feel why the need to say this after:

Need more of these people. These people are my backup choices to DRK. This game is NOT one to lurk in imo.

bigmc109
Bogre
CSL
TonyMontana
Vaya

Snow Bunny, the point of making sure we lynch at the pseudo-deadline is the same as not choosing to no lynch. Because that is essentially what you are doing if you go beyond deadline. You are saying...here you go scum...here's a free day!

However, in my opinion, policy is NOT the way to choose a default lynch especially now that we have some candidates (ironically his replacement is one of those candidates).

With three days until "deadline" I will likely be sticking with DRK but mal/CSL has solidified as a backup choice for me.

Why would you voted for CSL at this point?

Because mal/CSL/flam have contributed nothing and lurked a lot while under suspicion. And flam is now bandwagoning left and right.

It's that the same as policy lynching? What is the difference between lurker lynching vs policy lynching?

I do see an interesting dilemma though now that DRK has revealed his neighbors. He revealed the names of his neighbors.
a) If he is scum, he has likely confirmed two town by doing so.
b)If he is town, he has given us a probably 50/50 on the two other

.

Why do you think there is a 50/50 of one of the neighbors being scum?

In other news...
Manho is quickly creeping up my scumlist due to the empty promises. Last time I saw someone have so many "will post later" posts was Jebus in my Dexter game...guess what, he was scum.

I do note he did admit to doing this 3 times and then when he gets back says the same thing.

The massive V/LA and lurking from manho doesn't sit well with me and reminds me too much of Jebus-scum. Flare is being completely useless and it is possible it is due to him being new but I am not really sure why he is even playing at this point?

I'm not sure if this is a lynching lurker mentaility or a mod mentality seeing scum do this in another game.
I know I had a game where a player lurked and was scum and I see town do it to. It's become a null tell for me.

[Ellibereth]

@Eli: will you please answer my question about if you investigated any other players?

I think it's best for me not to anwser that question.

[manho]

it's right for elli to not answering that.

[Flareonage]

why would you ask that? Even the idiot knows that's a dumb question

[don_johnson]

are you calling me an idiot?

unvote, vote: plumegranate

yeah. i think far's on the right track here.

[Ellibereth]

I'm thinking that there's probably one scum amongst people on the Annachie counterwagon, i,e dj, Flare, Juls, far.
dj, Juls, and far all feel town to me, so admit I may be wrong about Flare...

This is D2

Is it? By counting lynches it's D3. By counting nightkills it's D2. Meh, prob nothing important but this stood out to me nevertheless.

Reevaluating:
Town: Far, dj, Juls, Fishy
That leaves: manho, snow, p-fruit, flare.

Snow: Did you jail anyone after P-fruit. No name needed. If you don't feel comfortable saying yes or no either it's fine. The lack of an NK seems wierd to me, IIRC tony's was on a monday.

[Juls]

It's that the same as policy lynching? What is the difference between lurker lynching vs policy lynching?

Because lurking is an actual strategy whereas policy-lynching is based on things that have occurred in games unrelated to the current one. I don't see how this line of question is even relavent as I have explained my stance on this ad nauseum.

Why do you think there is a 50/50 of one of the neighbors being scum?

You left out the word "probably". It is a reasonable assumption that if 1 or more of the three are scum. And the fact that the two in question were behaving scummily only adds to that.

I'm not sure if this is a lynching lurker mentaility or a mod mentality seeing scum do this in another game.
I know I had a game where a player lurked and was scum and I see town do it to. It's become a null tell for me.

I just think there is a difference when town lurks because they don't seem to come in every 72 hours or whatever the deadline is and post "more later".

@Elli: I don't follow your logic that scum must have been on anna's wagon late. I would understand if DRK was scum and the switching took place to save him but DRK was town. So wouldn't town want him lynched? It may be a valid point but I am not seeing it.

[Flareonage]

are you calling me an idiot?

I was referring to the fact that you guys are always calling me an idiot

[Ellibereth]

IIRC there were only a few hours/minutes left when Ann counterwagon started.
Assuming Ann is town, the scum know that both DRK and Ann are town.
If they switch over to Ann, and the lynch doesn't happen, they win, DRK dies.
If they switch over to Ann, and Ann is eventual lynched, they win. Ann dies, and they can settup DRK and myself to take the blame for the mislynch.
Of course, the second hold some risk as they would be on the Ann mislynch wagon, but the probability the switch was going to happen didn't look to high, and they use the oppurtunity to look they're going off a townie lynch wagon.

At least that's how I see it. Am I missing something?