Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[dybeck]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

[wolframnhart]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

Why do you believe that dybeck?

[Kdub]

Narninian replaces Grandi.

Vote Count

Starbuck (5)

- dybeck, kikuchiyo, Riceballtail, Heilograph, bv310

Riceballtail (0)

-

bv310 (3)

- MadCrawdad, wolframnhart, Papa Zito

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (0)

-

Heilograph (0)

-

Papa Zito (1)

- Sibelius

wolframnhart (0)

-

Narninian (0)

-

manho (0)

-

dybeck (1)

- Starbuck

Sibelius (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- manho, Narninian

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is January 26, ~ 12:30 am MST.

[MadCrawdad]

@ Heilograph

I guess somtimes you have to hop on a wagon to get the game moving..

Participation always helps, too.

Well to start off the game is moving here at snail pace. I decided that one way to get somwhere is to put at l-1 and than let the others argue back and forth , while I go back a few pages and try to get better reads on people.

So to move the game along, you put another player in danger (one you hadn’t previously suspected) of being lynched while you went back to catch up?

FoS: Heilograph

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@bv310

Rumblebuffin

Are you really trying to claim the most obscure Giant in Narnia as your role? (Yes, I looked it up)

<snip>As for the voting, I haven't voted because I was waiting for a real case to be made. As it is, the case against Starbuck is pretty good, but I think there's a good chance that she's actually just a very lazy townie.

I think I trust Dybeck here. Star's play has just been going down over the course of this day.

VOTE: Starbuck

Note that this is L-1, according to the vote count. You may want to try again on the claim.

You recently said that you didn’t vote Starbuck because you think that there’s a “good chance that she’s actually just a very lazy townie.” But soon after, you trusted dybeck enough to throw your vote on.

Two questions:

1. Why do you trust dybeck as much as you claim?
2. What has recently changed in Starbuck’s play to make you more willing to cast a vote?

@ kikuchiyo

Wolf: A vanilla claim should not stop a lynch. There is no reason for you to have been on the wagon in the first place if you were going to back off a vanilla claim. The reason for claiming before lynch(especially on day 1) is to help town avoid hitting a power role. Your unvote due to claim is noted. Saying "her role makes sense to me," is a giant cop out. So basically, anyone getting lynched can search the wiki for a name and you will believe them? Does not compute. I agree, however, in further discussion so converse away.

You were calling for Starbuck’s claim at L-4. Had Starbuck issued her VT claim then would it have made a difference?

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@ dybeck

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

Why do you believe that dybeck?

Ditto.

[manho]

that starbuck-wagon is a shit. there is no reason behind the wagon. and dybeck is the scum behind that, asking for an early roleclaim, asking for an early roleclaim, asking for others to support the wagon, asking for others to vote starbuck to get her at L-1 for a claim, etc.

when i skim through the thread, i came across this:

Does anyone have way to keep this game from stalling that is neither a Starbuck claim nor a massclaim?

I think that the problem lies in the fact that I don't have a feel for any single player that strikes me as overwhelmingly pro-town. If anyone feels that they are that player, they should consider taking a lead here. This game is stalling badly and we're on a clock.

There must be a way - but I'm not coming up with it.

If we end up lynching Starbuck, it will be half for the reasons that everyone's stated so far, and half for the lack of a credible alternative option.

dybeck is definitely leading the town by that time, when he was pushing starbuck for a claim, so why ask for another to take the lead?

but the scummy point is the bolded last sentence that shift his responsibility for the starbuck (mis?)lynch to the whole town. it sounds like dybeck is expecting a town flip from starbuck and try to avoid the attention then.

vote: dybeck

[manho]

as for starbuck's claim, i'm not sure if it is real or not, but i don't see there is enough reason to get starbuck lynched.

[Papa Zito]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

wut

[Riceballtail]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

I really can't say I'm seeing it so well myself right now either. Manho's defense of Star is noted as well, mostly for being a chainsaw.

[Narninian]

Here - havnt read it all.

Will catch up tonight.

[wolframnhart]

@RBT

Do you not see anything scummy about not voting someone that you have called scummy when it would have been a hammer, but then voting them when you can be L-1 and just say you trust another player? Bv310 still hasn't even done this for me:

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

Bv310 is definitely someone of interest to me though due to his past few posts ,and I would rather the day not end until he at least tries to make a case against either PZ or Starbuck if those are still his top two suspects, and in his own words not a rehash.

True he has voted Starbuck so that must be his "top suspect" but he still hasn't given a real case against her in his own words, he is just ridding off dybeck.

[kikuchiyo]

To clarify: the number was correct. I found Wolf's post anti-town because it looked like a vanilla softclaim. He also does not take into account that Starbuck could be scum with a safeclaim provided by the mod.

Madcrawdad: Somewhat of an unfair question but I'll answer. Had she claimed earlier it would have had more credibility in my eyes. She didn't just refuse then, she fought her claim tooth and nail all the way even though several players asked. That said, by refusing to claim earlier she opens up a period of time which is now questionable. She does not claim power, so why fight so hard? Some town reasons for it, but more likely than not she was either waiting on the mod for a decent fakeclaim(in which case she should be upset one wasn't provided), or busy putting together one of her own.

Starbuck should still be lynched. All suspicions will then be able to stem from her flip. Btw, she said she wanted to reread. I would love some analysis from her seeing as how she has put forth none so far.

[Papa Zito]

To clarify: the number was correct. I found Wolf's post anti-town because it looked like a vanilla softclaim. He also does not take into account that Starbuck could be scum with a safeclaim provided by the mod.

Ah, understood. I read it a different way but I see where you're coming from.

Sibelius, opinion of manho plz.

[manho]

Manho's defense of Star is noted as well, mostly for being a chainsaw.

i'm not saying starbuck must be town, but that the wagon behind it is really bad. i'll have to agree with kiku that the starbuck lynch is very informative, and i'll support the lynch if deadline approach while dybeck is not near a lynch.

[manho]

after a second thought, dybeck can't be scum if starbuck flip scum. we need to lynch starbuck first.

[dybeck]

I've done nothing but actively hunt scum today and, having caught one lurking and lying, she's come up with a decidedly dodgy claim and then stopped answering any more questions.

It's killing me that we're so close to letting this one off the hook.

[bv310]

Manho, if you want Starbuck lynched why haven't you switched your vote yet? You defended her, then abruptly switch to "we need to lynch her", so why hasn't your vote changed? Trying to bus from your scumbuddy without putting her back at L-1?

[wolframnhart]

bv310 why have you been avoiding answering my request of you?

[bv310]

Which request?

[wolframnhart]

@RBT

Do you not see anything scummy about not voting someone that you have called scummy when it would have been a hammer, but then voting them when you can be L-1 and just say you trust another player? Bv310 still hasn't even done this for me:

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

Bv310 is definitely someone of interest to me though due to his past few posts ,and I would rather the day not end until he at least tries to make a case against either PZ or Starbuck if those are still his top two suspects, and in his own words not a rehash.

True he has voted Starbuck so that must be his "top suspect" but he still hasn't given a real case against her in his own words, he is just ridding off dybeck.

The bolded part. You say you trust dybeck, and still have yet to post a case against your top two suspects. You have voted Starbuck true, but i want a case against her in your own words.

[MadCrawdad]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

I really can't say I'm seeing it so well myself right now either. Manho's defense of Star is noted as well, mostly for being a chainsaw.

Just because dybeck doesn't see it, or have you got your own reasons?

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Madcrawdad: Somewhat of an unfair question but I'll answer. <snip>

Unfair, how?

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Manho, if you want Starbuck lynched why haven't you switched your vote yet? You defended her, then abruptly switch to "we need to lynch her", so why hasn't your vote changed? Trying to bus from your scumbuddy without putting her back at L-1?

Your refusal to answer several questions I've asked of you has been noted.

[kikuchiyo]

Unfair in that you are asking me to respond to a set of events which cannot happen. It is impossible to say what would have happened had a certain set of circumstances come to pass. Kind of like traveling back in time and squashing a bug. Small changes in the time space continuum can have huge effects so it is difficult to say with certainty how I would have reacted. Not a big deal as I don't think your intention was malicious, but I certainbly think its worth pointing out when answering a question of such characteristics.

[bv310]

Wasn't sure which question you wanted me to answer, so I found any that seemed like they were important.

Also

vote Bv310

He has not come up with a case on his own, just going off of dybeck. He wouldn't vote for Starbuck before, especially when it would have been a hamme,r but he has no problem voting her back to L-1.

Correct. I originally got a vibe off her Rumblebuffin claim of possible power role trying to vanilla claim in order to avoid a lynch. It was her subsequent attempt to derail any real questioning by calling me and Dybeck out on how well either of us know source material that made me think she was scum trying to vanilla claim.

A case that rests on a less-than-significant action and a choice of words that might be questionable is a good case?

I wouldn't call her actions less-than-questionable, not by a longshot, but in her claim, she made this a much more legitimate case.

Two questions:

1. Why do you trust dybeck as much as you claim?
2. What has recently changed in Starbuck’s play to make you more willing to cast a vote?

1: I trust Dybeck because he's been raising the exact same thoughts I've been having so far in this game.
2: Her trying to deflect onto the source, and trying to justify the weakest vanilla claim I've seen in any game I've played on this site are what made me more willing to vote.



I'd also like to take this chance to point out my suspicions against Manho.

First, he nearly whiteknights her cause (I snipped this post, but the whole thing is valid in my argument.

that starbuck-wagon is a shit. there is no reason behind the wagon. and dybeck is the scum behind that, asking for an early roleclaim, asking for an early roleclaim, asking for others to support the wagon, asking for others to vote starbuck to get her at L-1 for a claim, etc.

He goes as far as calling the entire wagon shit, claiming there is NO reason. Anybody who has read any of this thread can see the case building. He outright calls Dybeck scum as well, which is outright false.

He quickly (as in within a day) switches his position entirely, stating:

after a second thought, dybeck can't be scum if starbuck flip scum. we need to lynch starbuck first.

Of course, this last part is already on the last page, but I wanted to reiterate.


Any other questions, I'm going to be on in about an hour to answer them My connection is being a touch buggy lately, so I'm somewhat LA, not enough to worry though, I can always get on in class.

[wolframnhart]

unvote

Thank you bv310, I am for now down grading you from scummy to neutral. I wanted to see a case by you without just trusting dybeck.

I completely agree about the manho part, why say the case is crap and then say we need to lynch the person he was

just

defending two minutes ago without voting her?

[bv310]

Sorry about my lack of posting. Being on in class kinda liits my posting ability. My Lappy's back up to 100% now, so I can contribute again.

[manho]

the case on starbuck is bad, and dybeck is the scum behind it. but as kiku said, we need starbuck's flip to get more information, like starbuck flipping town makes dybeck more scum, but starbuck flipping scum makes dybeck more town.