899 FABLES- THE GRIMMAFIA GAME - The End. Mod Sucks.


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:05 pm

Post by Gerhard Krause »

Mirror mirror on the wall,
who is fairest of them all?
Kpaca, for he surely is doomed to fall.

Why does he ask me about my name?
I wonder, what is his game?
Does he have a power role,
that lets see in another's soul?
Shakespeare wrote:I walked away from the mirror.
it was morning, it was afternoon, it was
night

nothing changed
it was locked in place.
something flashed, something broke, something
remained.

I walked down the stairway and
into it.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:02 pm

Post by Iecerint »

I have the same take on the Mina->DoS interaction as the ABR->Mordy interaction. DoS sort of always appears scummy to me for some of the reasons Mina has indicated. Namely, his play here reminds me in particular of his play in an ongoing game.

On the other hand, his playstyle isn't conducive to determining his alignment. As such, he's a lower-cost mislynch, but I don't think we should head that direction unless we approach deadline without a serious suspect, and I'm still pretty satisfied with kpaca unless his current pattern of inquiry bears fruit.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:04 pm

Post by RayFrost »

DoS is a town read for me.
don't you feel silly now?
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:19 pm

Post by DragonsofSummer »

Ray, you are the only person to have said that in a long while.

@Mina: I didn't even attack you for the fos, just commented that you were being ridiculous. I attacked you for reasons you don't dispute. My post was not overly defensive, it was commenting. Then when asked about why I thought you were ridiculous I elaborated.

Also I still think my case against you is the best one out there right now, and so have not changed my vote. I play mafia very close to the chest, and don't tend to give a ton of comment on things I am not actively pursuing currently, you may find it scummy, I find it to be effective.

Also, I am adding her callous disregard for the lynching of a townie to my case against her.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:26 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Iecerint wrote:DoS sort of
always appears scummy to me
for some of the reasons Mina has indicated.
I just reread this, and I realized I should clarify that the bolded bit is my point about DoS.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:06 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

Grimmy wrote:Congrats and my applause to the beau. He did good.
Thank you, and yes, he certainly did!
Mina wrote:A belated happy anniversary, Jazzmyn. :)
Thank you!

Moving right along... first I'll answer the outstanding questions to me, and then I'll add further comments on more recent happenings.
Mina wrote:Most of your points on me were okay, but this one is just reaching. 1) What nefarious motives would scum have for making it sound like every player thought SP was a lurker? Particularly since I didn't even say I suspected him? 2) Obviously I meant that all the people who'd mentioned SP's meta said he was a lurker. 3) Anyway, why shouldn't I take the word of several people on something as easy to verify as meta?
(My numbering added)
1. I agree that it's not a big thing, but as I said in my post, it's a way of inflating via rhetoric, and I've seen scum do it.
2. See 1.
3. Because sometimes scum lie and nobody researches their past games sufficiently to find the lie, and the scum say "why would I say that if I was lying since it's so easy to meta?" - I have personally found scum due to claims they made that nobody else bothered to meta to find out that they were lying, and I got them lynched.
Mina wrote:While I'm at it, speaking of not reading very carefully, your notes on MM skipped a lot of important stuff.
1) Is there any reason you didn't mention that stuff? Were you just not paying attention? Did you find it irrelevant?
2) And since you seem to have ignored much of my back-and-forth with MM, what do you think of this post by MM? MM also admitted to making a mistake--and only when called on it. Do you think MM is more likely to be scum because of that comment?
(my numbering added)
1. I did say that I was realizing at that point that I had very few notes on the rhymers, Monkey and GK, and realizing that the cryptic posting seems to stifle my scumhunting. I'm going to have to read these players more carefully and more closely because I find it difficult to get a handle on them through rhyme, and I think I might be sort of tuning some of it out when I shouldn't be.

2. I did comment on Monkey's misrep/mistake re: malp FOSing him over everyone else when in fact, nobody else other than Monkey had voted for the mod at the time, and I commented on his backtracking (although the latter was in relation to posts between Monkey and Iec). As for your back and forth with him, I didn't get much out of it, largely I think because of the cryptic nature of his posts, and yours relying upon an interpretation of them that I didn't see or perhaps I couldn't reconcile, again due to the cryptic nature of his posts. As for the specific post you referenced above, if you're referring to Monkey's rhyme at the end, I think it's weak, but again it says little. This is the entire crux of the problem that I'm having with Monkey's posts.

I think that those are all of the questions you posed to me in your post, but if I've missed any, let me know.

As an aside, I also find that I continuously mix up malp and kpaca, and I have no idea why. I've never played with malp, and the only game I ever played with kpaca, he made all of 3 posts before he disappeared, so I can't figure out why I keep mixing these two up in my mind.

Speaking of malp, he hasn't posted for 9 days.

@Mod: please prod malp


More to follow.

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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:07 am

Post by Mina »

I have to run to work now, so I'll make this quick:

@kpaca: I'm interested in seeing where this leads, but do you have any thoughts on, you know,
anything
you've missed? Or are you just trying to use this as a get-out-of-jail-free card?

@DoS: In the town game I checked, you certainly didn't come across as this scummy. (Admittedly, I only read the first few pages, so maybe I'll do a more thorough meta read later.) And saying it's your playstyle not to comment on anything is a cop-out. At this point, you're a suspect. We need information on you so we can decide if we should lynch you. Making us mislynch you harms the town more than revealing your top-secret opinions and scumhunting techniques ever could.

And you know, if you're really going to play the I-do-my-best-scumhunting-by-BEING-A-TOTAL-MYSTERY! card, at least do some actual scumhunting. I'm town, but even if I was scum, you wouldn't exactly be making me sweat with your pressure. I don't see you "actively pursuing" me at all. You voted me for defending kpaca (which is an easy thing to go after someone for), but since then you've completely let me slide. Come on, step it up a little! Ask me some hardhitting questions! You'd be doing a whole lot better job of scumhunting if you actually justified your arguments and responded to my points.

And LOL at "callous disregard for the lynching of a townie." Melodramatic, much? Obviously, I suspect you. But I don't know your alignment. Pretty much anyone could be scum at this point because so many people are inactive. You've done a few suspicious things, done no townie-looking things, and so far haven't shown any evidence that you can help the town find scum. Therefore, I'd feel much less guilty about being wrong about you than about, say, Mordy.

@Iecerint: My point about you and Mordy doesn't really stand anymore, because I see that you use meta as evidence a lot. I still owe you answers to your questions when I have time, just to explain what my thought process was on Monday, though (for example, what I meant by using meta in "contradictory ways"). Has DoS flipped town in the on-going game you're following?

@Jazzmyn: Okay, thanks. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on what you've missed, when you're ready.

@RF: Why do you think DoS is town?
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:13 am

Post by Mina »

I have to run to work now, so I'll make this quick:

@kpaca: I'm interested in seeing where this leads, but do you have any thoughts on, you know,
anything
you've missed? Or are you just trying to use this as a get-out-of-jail-free card?

@DoS: In the town game I checked, you certainly didn't come across as this scummy. (Admittedly, I only read the first few pages, so maybe I'll do a more thorough meta read later.) And saying it's your playstyle not to comment on anything is a cop-out. At this point, you're a suspect. We need information on you so we can decide if we should lynch you. Making us mislynch you harms the town more than revealing your top-secret opinions and scumhunting techniques ever could.

And you know, if you're really going to play the I-do-my-best-scumhunting-by-BEING-A-TOTAL-MYSTERY! card, at least do some actual scumhunting. I'm town, but even if I was scum, you wouldn't exactly be making me sweat with your pressure. I don't see you "actively pursuing" me at all. You voted me for defending kpaca (which is an easy thing to go after someone for), but since then you've completely let me slide. Come on, step it up a little! Ask me some hardhitting questions! You'd be doing a whole lot better job of scumhunting if you actually justified your arguments and responded to my points.

And LOL at "callous disregard for the lynching of a townie." Melodramatic, much? Obviously, I suspect you. But I don't know your alignment. Pretty much anyone could be scum at this point because so many people are inactive. You've done a few suspicious things, done no townie-looking things, and so far haven't shown any evidence that you can help the town find scum. Therefore, I'd feel much less guilty about being wrong about you than about, say, Mordy.

@Iecerint: My point about you and Mordy doesn't really stand anymore, because I see that you use meta as evidence a lot. I still owe you answers to your questions when I have time, just to explain what my thought process was on Monday, though (for example, what I meant by using meta in "contradictory ways"). Has DoS flipped town in the on-going game you're following?

@Jazzmyn: Okay, thanks. Those are good answers. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on what you've missed, when you're ready.

@RF: Why do you think DoS is town?
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:26 am

Post by Iecerint »

Refer to Movie Madness mafia for a finished game where DoS flipped town but literally everyone thought he was scum. I should note that he didn't really lurk in that game (so it's not quite the same as this), but I still got the same scummy vibe from him. Refer especially to his D2 claim for some amusement.

I don't feel comfortable saying too much about the ongoing game, but I can make the neutral observation that such an occurrence would be necessary to make my having alluded to the ongoing game relevant.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:30 am

Post by MordyS »

Ok, after that last little bit of a post I've gotten wonder if kpaca is active lurking. This is ridiculous. He's got this huge wagon on him and instead of protest or argue with the cases against him he's basically disappeared from the thread.
1-1: Town
0-2: Scum

"Isn't it funny? The truth just sounds different." - Penny Lane
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:43 am

Post by Iecerint »

I bought the Deluxe edition of Book 1 yesterday. Nice read.

Kpaca needs more votes, a prod, and a replacement.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:32 am

Post by RayFrost »

mina - DoS is sincerely trying from the vibes I'm getting.

sincere attempts = not scum.

It's guuuuuttttt
don't you feel silly now?
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:11 pm

Post by Mina »

Ugh, less than a week until deadline.

Iecerint, you're no fun. :( Every time I have a new suspect, you're like, "No, here's meta that says he could possibly be town. Now let's get back to lynching kpaca." Give me a bone, here!

When I reread the ABR exchange in context, both you and Mordy (although I dislike other aspects of his play) come off a lot better. But to answer your questions from before:
First, I checked both (all) of Mordy's scumgames on the site. I investigated Mordy's past scumplay to determine whether nullification was a scum tactic Mordy has used in the past. The result was that it was not. If Mordy is scum, this is a new tactic for him. Again, this is relevant because ABR characterized his case as gut. Meta can help to determine whether it's a playstyle quirk or a scumtell.
My problem with this was that this seemed like very weak evidence clearing Mordy--and evidence based mainly on semantics. First. how common a scum tactic is "nullification," anyway*? I appreciate that you went to the effort of researching Mordy's play, but I don't think a Ctrl+F search on the words "null tell" tells us whether scum!Mordy would mention that something is both townie and scummy. IMO, you don't need meta to know that saying the words "null tell" is a null tell. ;)

(*After writing this, I see you mentioned that nullification is a favourite scumtell of yours. That makes more sense.)

Also, I don't think this was really a case of "nullification." Mordy only mentioned the null tell line when pushed on why he seemed middle-of-the-road on posting restrictions. I think the root of the case against Mordy was that he defended himself against the contradiction by saying, "Yeah, I believe both points"; technically, that answered my question, but it was a little convoluted and wishy-washy, so I could see where ABR was coming from.

Besides, why does it matter if ABR's case was gut? If anything, that would make Mordy's "nullification" more likely to be an unconscious change in behaviour rather than a conscious strategy.
Why do you think I have used meta in inconsistent ways?
Yeah, I didn't really explain myself here. To elaborate, I thought it was strange that you were very quick to defend Mordy with meta, to the point that you seemed to be using meta to argue that he would play scum both better than this and worse than this.

For example, when I mentioned that Mordy seemed kind of low-key, you brought up the Movie Madness game and said, "Well, actually, Mordy is a very strong scum player, so I don't think he'd lurk as scum." Later, you mentioned the other game in which he exclusively focused on easy targets--although, granted, you said as a caveat that he improved since then. All in all, your meta defences reduced the pressure on him, and made me wonder if you were trying to keep your options open.
Also, the huge exchange between them on posting restrictions came across to me as a load of nitpicky, obfuscating filler.
I dun even know what you're referring to here tbh. Post what you're referring to, please.
I was talking about your interaction with Mordy on the bottom of page 11, in which you discussed ABR's Mordy accusations. To be honest, I don't think calling it "obfuscating" was a fair assessment, because I sort of skimmed through it and thought, "Oh, great, yet MORE bickering about the theory of posting restrictions and the meanings of the word 'nullification' and 'WIFOM.'" I had trouble following your arguments, and on a gut level, it felt like you were going on about trivialities. It seemed like the kind of debate that would be easy for scum to participate in so as to pad their contribution level. Rereading it, however, the exchange wasn't as long or irrelevant as I remember it being--Mordy was addressing specific points ABR made, although not expressing himself that clearly. So, um, sorry about that. This is why I usually don't go off knee-jerk impressions.

--

To be honest, I find that I'm going around in circles this game. I'm rereading the thread, and one moment I think Player A is sincere and Player B scummy, the next I reinterpret one sentence and all of a sudden Player A is picking on poor defenceless B. This might be a backlash from several games in a row in which I've been very confident in suspicions that were horribly wrong, or it might be because I find it impossible to read players who only make two or three points all game against one easy target and don't ever react to events on the thread.

I started writing a blurb about RF, kpaca, and the inactives, but it's three in the morning here and I have to leave for work at eight, so I'll save it for another day.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:03 am

Post by SocioPath »

Iecerint wrote:Kpaca needs more votes, a prod, and a replacement.
As much as you are scum, this much is true.
Unvote
Vote: Kpaca



I'm liking Mina more and more every time she posts, more on that later.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:18 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Unvote, vote DoS


FOS: kpaca


Mod: replace malcp plz
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:33 am

Post by Iecerint »

As I recall, I ctrl+f'd the word "null" because ABR said something like "null, as you call it" in one of his posts during the ABR->Mordy bit. If it happened enough that ABR noticed it, I figured that word would probably be a reliable heuristic for finding that kind of rhetoric in his scum games. It's true that it wasn't a very scientific search method, but I think the results were pretty unambiguous, so I wasn't overly concerned about that.

I wasn't familiar with Mordy's older scumgame until I went hunting, but I knew about Movie Madness from the start because I played in that game with him. So I started with a specific idea of how Mordy played, but that idea was contradicted by the older game I read later on (which also had the more standard rule mechanics). So the changed style could either be due to the rule mechanic (in which case lurkerMordy is scummy, if not nullifierMordy) or due to improved skill (in which case lurkerMordy isn't a priori scummy, either).
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:52 am

Post by Gerhard Krause »

Genisis 20:3 wrote:But God came to Kpaca in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:52 am

Post by Gerhard Krause »

(Off topic: Of course I spelled Genesis wrong. How could I not?)
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:15 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Iecerint wrote:If it happened enough that ABR noticed it, I figured that word would probably be a reliable heuristic for finding that kind of rhetoric in his scum games.
Having reflected on this a little, I just did the same thing in this game, and it looks like Mordy just said it the one time in this game, too. So maybe it's not such a good heuristic, after all, but I think it's still pretty reasonable since we were only talking about one Mordy event in this game, anyway, and the rare scumMordy instances in other games involved attacking others for using the tactic IIRC.
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:55 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

Okay, I've re-read the game again, and read through several players in ISO. I'm not getting as much as I would like in the way of strong scum reads on players, but I really don't like the way kpaca has played so far. He made a ton of posts on the first day the game opened (Jan 4), made a point of saying that he is 'confrontational' and 'aggressive' but he's only made 2 posts since then, one on Jan 8 and one on Jan 14. He hasn't said a thing since his "I'm here to save the day" post, which strikes me as pretty strange. I want to see where he's going with this, but as near as I can tell, he's at L-2 at the moment (by my unofficial count), and I don't want to see the town put in a position where kpaca's just stalling in hopes that a claim right at the deadline will end up with a no-lynch. If he's town and has something important to say - as he has hinted - then I would think he would do it sooner rather than later by, you know, showing up and participating.

Malp needs to be replaced
stat
. He hasn't contributed anything
at all
to the game. He has only 2 posts since the game actually started on Jan 4, neither with any meaningful content, and he hasn't posted since Jan 5, nearly two weeks ago.

RayFrost also looks scummy to me, for his (blech) sycophantic behaviour
viz
ABR, his lack of scumhunting, and his low signal to noise ratio. He doesn't seem to be looking for scum, but instead is just sucking up to ABR, posting fluff, frivolities, and filler, while declaring a couple of players "town" for no apparent reason.

I don't understand the ABR-worship from Iecerint, either. So far this game, ABR hasn't contributed anything but taking a run at Mordy, which turned out to be nothing but a "gut feeling" when all was said and done.

MonkeyMan has fallen off the face of the thread since Jan 9 now, which is strange since he was active until then, and yet he's posted something like 80 posts elsewhere since last gracing us with his presence here in this thread.

I also want to see more content from Dragons. He says that his "case" on Mina is "the best one out there right now" but that just sounds like nonsense to me.

At the moment, I'm most inclined to vote for kpaca, but I'll wait until there is an official votecount.

Regards,
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:10 pm

Post by Iecerint »

My ABR-worship was derived from some games I've read that he played in, WoT mafia being the one I followed most closely. This is the first game I've played with him, so I was excited. (I had a similar reaction in the two games I've played with DGB.) I agree that his performance so far has been underwhelming.

Nothing else to comment on, really. kpaca still stands out, and his simultaneous notability and low activity are really stalling the game. He needs extreme prod abuse and/or replacement.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:18 am

Post by SocioPath »

Gerhard Krause wrote:
Genisis 20:3 wrote:But God came to Kpaca in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man
Gerhard Krause wrote:(Off topic: Of course I spelled Genesis wrong. How could I not?)
Odd how neither of these posts rhyme.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:30 am

Post by Grimmy »

Last chance prod being sent to Mal, and if he doesnt reply IN GAME in the next three days, ill put out word for a replacement (which I hate hate HATE)

VOTE COUNT to follow soon
Show
v/la on weekend until further notice.

Rishi wrote:
Of course, Grimmy never seems to leave the random stage - even on like Day 3. And he seems to do okay.

Grimm "Bruce" Lee - I-will-punch-you-in-the-SHIRT!
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:39 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Grimmy...I replaced malcp long ago. You should too. Replacement naow.

At the present moment DoS does strike me as scummy. And nobody's worshiping me, that's just ridiculous. I have a reputation, sure. But see sig.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:41 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Grimmy...I replaced malcp long ago. You should too. Replacement naow.

At the present moment DoS does strike me as scummy. And nobody's worshiping me, that's just ridiculous. I have a reputation, sure. But see sig.
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