Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[manho]

9 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
Flareonage ( 2 ) Snow Bunny Fishythefish
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
manho ( 1 ) Juls
Fishythefish ( 4 ) Ellibereth don_johnson farside22 Flareonage
No Lynch ( 2 ) manho Plumegranate
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 23th 00:01 EST
Lynch Will Be: No Lynch

back from V/LA, but it's 3am now. will be here posting tomorrow morning.

[Juls]

Vote: Fishy

That seems too interesting of a role to make up unless it is a fakeclaim. And fishy seems to have failed the test.

[Plumegranate]

I'd like to see Fishy's reaction ti Elli before my vote.

[Snow_Bunny]

Me too.

I'm trusting Elli on this one

Unvote

VOTE: Fishy

No, you're just acting like a sheep again.

[Flareonage]

L-1

Time for Fishy's claim

[Fishythefish]

Actually: screw that. Idon't want to be NKed.


I am a Gunsmith.
I was given an explicit list of roles that would show up as having a gun:
Cop/Watcher/Trackers, Vigs, Other Gunsmith, Paranoid Gun owners, SK's, and Mafia. NO OTHER ROLES HAVE GUNS.
It should be obvious now that I had a recent investigation of Fishy which he has shown to have a gun.
Coupled along with my gut read on Ann and some other stuff, it should be obvious I'm thinking that Fishy is scum.
The role questions I asked now are pretty obvious now. If he was a Cop/Tracker/Watcher/Gunsmith he would have chose the Investigative section. If he was a vig, the killing. PGO is impossible because I'm still alive.
His more recent posts shows he clearly does not have one of the listed town roles.
Hence he's Mafia or an SK.

Wrong.
I'm a jack of all trades. I have/had three one-shot abilities, one of which is a vig shot. These abilities share a common timer.

Before anyone comments on this claim, or ask for any more details,
@Elli: does the wording of your claimed role pm mean that the role I've just claimed cannot possibily exist? If in doubt, please ask the mod.

When Elli has answered that, I will discuss this matter further.

[Ellibereth]

My pm has a very clear list of the roles with guns.
Either zor screwed up or you're fakeclaiming. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Fullclaim please.

[Plumegranate]

My pm has a very clear list of the roles with guns.
Either zor screwed up or you're fakeclaiming. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Fullclaim please.

Why does this not fit with Fishy's claimed role? He said that he has one vig shot, which could have cause the result you got in him. If there is a flaw in my reasoning, please point it out.

Pre-post edit: I see what you are saying, Elli, that JOAT wasn't on your list. I'm not sure... on one hand, the fact that vig was on Elli's list, and Fishy has a vig shot could cause a guilty, but JOAT wasn't on the list. I'm going to do more thinking about this.

[Fishythefish]

My pm has a very clear list of the roles with guns.
Either zor screwed up or you're fakeclaiming. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Fullclaim please.

pm the mod and ask him whether your role forbids mine. There's no reason he shouldn't answer. I think it's unclear whether or not JOAT including vig is forbidden by your claim.

@everyone: if Elli is scum, he has a difficult decision to make about whether we are in direct opposition. Please don't make this decision any easier for him.

[Ellibereth]

already pmed him.

[Ellibereth]

@everyone: if Elli is scum, he has a difficult decision to make about whether we are in direct opposition. Please don't make this decision any easier for him.

Don't understand what you're saying. Explain clearer please.

[Snow_Bunny]

It makes sense that a JOAT doubles as a vig, but then the "other" option Fishy chose wouldn't. I mean, by "other" I was thinking something between the lines of voting ability or lynching.

[Ellibereth]

K, got a reply.
JOAT with a vig element does count as vig...bleh.

Unvote, Vote manho

I'm still keeping the option of a good fakeclaim open but you seem genuine enough for now.

[Flareonage]

Elli claimed for nothing and forced Fishy to also claim for nothing. That's pretty scummy if you ask me. Elli could be a mafia watcher and saw that Fishy had a target and claimed Gunsmith. It's in the wiki so that means it wouldn't be hard to make up that role. Add the fact that Gunsmith or Flavor Cop is not on the list of roles provided by the mod. I know the mod also said roles could be based on that list but I think Elli forced Fishy to claim because he is in fact a mafia watcher.

Unvote

VOTE: Ellibereth

How's that for being a sheep, SB?

[Ellibereth]

Elli claimed for nothing and forced Fishy to also claim for nothing. That's pretty scummy if you ask me. Elli could be a mafia watcher and saw that Fishy had a target and claimed Gunsmith. It's in the wiki so that means it wouldn't be hard to make up that role. Add the fact that Gunsmith or Flavor Cop is not on the list of roles provided by the mod. I know the mod also said roles could be based on that list but I think Elli forced Fishy to claim because he is in fact a mafia watcher.

Unvote

VOTE: Ellibereth

How's that for being a sheep, SB?

Lolwtf? This is called being an idiot. The fact that it seems honest makes it all the more sadder.

[Ellibereth]

And btw: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... s_Zoraster

Scroll down, Gunsmith is right there, 2 above JOAT. I applaud your wondrous research skills.

[Juls]

Well now I am a bit confused but still suspicious of manho. Not sure I can see the point of all that if Elli is scum? But I kinda based my belief in him based on him not being able to make the role up but now I see he is in the business of research so it makes me trust him a little less.

Vote: manho

[farside22]

Eli did you check anyone else?

unvote

vote: flare

Going back to my original suspect.

[Flareonage]

unvote

[Fishythefish]

It makes sense that a JOAT doubles as a vig, but then the "other" option Fishy chose wouldn't. I mean, by "other" I was thinking something between the lines of voting ability or lynching.

Really? What would you have chosen from that list? Bear in mind that I didn't know the purpose of the question.

@everyone: if Elli is scum, he has a difficult decision to make about whether we are in direct opposition. Please don't make this decision any easier for him.

Don't understand what you're saying. Explain clearer please.

Pretty irrelevant now. I was saying that if you are scum, you had to decide whether or not you are 100% sure I'm scum. This decision would have been made easier by knowing how our claims were going to be received, among other things.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Flare: That's kind of far-fetched. IMO, gunsmith is as hard, or even harder, to fakeclaim as a cop. A very high-risk low-reward gambit, imo.

@Fishy: I myself would have said either any of them or wait and fullclaim. Because by "other" I was thinking in voting abilities.

Come on guys, you know the right move is to lynch Flare.

[manho]

why is Flare still alive? he is the scum.

Interesting turn of events. Elli suggesting makes me think she is town but at the same time she could be doing that to make us think she is town. Then there's the buddying she's been doing with me and telling everyone that I'm town

It also goes to show that Snow Bunny has a possibility of being scum. Mafia roleblocker comes to mind because it's similar to Town Jailkeeper. Of course if she flips scum then we don't know if she was telling the truth about targeting plum or just trying to confuse us more. Now I'm tempted to lynch Snow Bunny to see if her claim and her claiming that Plum was her target were just a trick

Elli claimed for nothing and forced Fishy to also claim for nothing. That's pretty scummy if you ask me. Elli could be a mafia watcher and saw that Fishy had a target and claimed Gunsmith. It's in the wiki so that means it wouldn't be hard to make up that role. Add the fact that Gunsmith or Flavor Cop is not on the list of roles provided by the mod. I know the mod also said roles could be based on that list but I think Elli forced Fishy to claim because he is in fact a mafia watcher.

Unvote

VOTE: Ellibereth

How's that for being a sheep, SB?

that's 2 times he asked for a claimed-powerrole lynch. and he has something like:

I guess it won't kill me

VOTE: Deathrowkitty

is the "I guess it won't kill me" too obvious for scum?

vote: Flare

[Fishythefish]

A review of some of the players in this game:

Flareon: early play is active lurking – posting lots without content. Fails to give reasons for votes. Lines like “I guess it won’t kill me”, “I believe DRK”, “I really hope you are right about this” from his votes on DRK, Elli, Anna/me respectively, smell like an attempt to put the responsibility for his vote one other.
Since the first lynch, he’s actually changed his play significantly – from sheep to a cross between sheep and faillogic. Votes since then:
Vote on me for being the third neighbour.
Vote on bigmc – sensible deadline lynch vote. However, the line that went with it was “I really hope SB is telling the truth” – which is both sheeping and really not the point when switching to bigmc.
Vote on me during the recent me-Elli episode – no great problem with this one. Again we have the sheeping line – “I’m trusting Elli on this one” – but here, sheeping was a pretty decent option.
Finally, vote on Elli.

Elli claimed for nothing and forced Fishy to also claim for nothing. That's pretty scummy if you ask me. Elli could be a mafia watcher and saw that Fishy had a target and claimed Gunsmith. It's in the wiki so that means it wouldn't be hard to make up that role. Add the fact that Gunsmith or Flavor Cop is not on the list of roles provided by the mod. I know the mod also said roles could be based on that list but I think Elli forced Fishy to claim because he is in fact a mafia watcher.

Unvote

VOTE: Ellibereth

How's that for being a sheep, SB?

Elli clearly didn’t claim for nothing, and nor did he force me to claim for nothing. What do/did you see in his recent play that is not consistent with a protown gunsmith?
It’s fair to say that, if Elli is mafia, he or a buddy is fairly likely to be a tracker/watcher, trying to do a 1 for 1 swap with a PR (these are the only roles I can think of that could know I am a PR, without knowing my actual role – and I think it’s fairly clear from Elli’s play that, if scum, he didn’t know my claim in advance). It’s a minor point, but the fact that Flare singles out watcher, without referencing tracker, makes me think that Flare has mafia watchers on the brain. Flare: why did you mention only mafia watcher here, when tracker is equally possible?
The point about gunsmith not being in the list of roles is actually a really good one. It’s a shame it’s not true.
This vote is very badly reasoned. This isn’t a good scumtell. What makes me think it’s indicative of Flare-scum is that last line: he’s deliberately going out of his way to cast an original vote.

At the beginning of the day, I was a bit concerned by the majority of the suspicion being on two players I saw as potential VI/lurkers. Rereading Flare, he is much worse than this. I’ve never seen a player post so much, and cast so many votes without commenting on

any

in-thread reasons for anybody to be scum. He’s done a bit of role speculation after claims, and that is literally it. I don’t think that’s how people play the game when they are trying to work out who the scum are. I’m now very, very happy with a Flare lynch.

@Juls: I dislike your vote on manho. A major reason seems to be the play of Jebus in a game you modded. This kind of argument really gets to me – it’s just “scum lurked, you’re lurking, you’re scum”, which is a logical fallacy. In general, I don’t see any evidence that lurking is a scumtell. In this game in particular, manho is getting quite a lot of negative attention for his lurking – why would he be continuing on purpose as scum?
Juls has said a couple of times that he thinks Flare could well be newbtown who shouldn’t really be in this game, but doesn’t seem to have applied the same thought process to manho. This seems somewhat inconsistent, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised by Juls and Flare being on a scumteam at this point.

SB remains on my scumlist for reasons which are well discussed elsewhere. Little has changed on this front recently.

manho – I treat the lurking as a nulltell. And there is little else.
@manho: why is asking for the lynch of a claimed PR a scummy thing to do?

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: flare

time for him to go.

[Juls]

@Fish: I am willing to vote flare. I don't consider manho a newb because I have played a game with him before. When you mod a game you get a new perspective on strategies of players and I have seen scum lurk away and that's why I feel he is likely scum. I am going to keep my vote on manho for now. If I can't garner enough support for manho by Wednesday I will be switching my vote to flare.

@don: Why did you switch to Flare instead of back to manho?