Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Snow White]

I dont believe there is any way to get Jiminy's notes back. My role says why i aim to help but there is nothing i am seeking.

I had been thinking that were you to say indefinately Scar was in this game, i was going to allude he was the SK more so than heartless scum, which i cant see Scar being. Cut into pieces, sounds like something a lion is capable of and i cant think of another KH character right now who is capable of it.... but this is speculation. And likely to be classed as more Goraddism so ill *try* stop now.

[Iecerint]

SW, I understand Kise being scum. That is simple.

(Actually, his ploy today kinda reminds me of his scumplay D1 in Grimm's Pokemon Madness mafia, where he tried to "mistakenly" quicklynch a player, but was caught when someone forgot to unvote. (By some miracle that still doesn't make sense to me, town wouldn't lynch him with me D2 IIRC. Sajin has said that Kise reads town to him, which I find a little odd. I've never played with townKise, so it could be that absurdly anti-town behavior is just a Kise tell. I'd love to see examples if they exist.)

What is less clear to me is why raider is "not our guy." You can play the same game I played with Kise this game and find places where raider has backtracked (most recently the scar-is-in-this-game vs. scar-is-mentioned-in-flavor flip after some discussion pretty much telling him to claim the latter). Granted, it won't be nearly as damning as Kise's case, but I don't see why you're clearing raider.

[Snow White]

Raider is not our guy because of the reasons i put on 3524. More or less because i assumed Raider had said Scar was in this game. Had that been true and if raider was Scar heartless scum, then i thought it logical heartless scum would submit a RaiderScarScum night kill to make his Simba claim more viable if that makes sense?

Since no such kill has really been made (Crushed being the closest thing to a heartless lion flavour kill) i thought this might give some credit to Raider as scum would want to verify another scums innocence. However i suppose that is subject to WIFOM.

Re. Kise. There have been times ive liked him and loathed him. I have not liked his actions thus far and i believe he has a high chance of being anti town. If not scum.

[Iecerint]

That is literally not a good argument. It is WIFOMtastic. This is how it goes:

1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. But raiderScum's team obviously would've made it seem like Scar is in the game!
4. so raider is town.

The simpler interpretation of these facts goes:

1. raider said that Scar was in the game.
2. There is no evidence that Scar is in the game.
3. raider's claim that Scar is in the game is a point against him.

Also, I think it's inappropriate to assume that raider is necessarily Scar if he is scum. SSK (the only flipped Disney villain) didn't claim the hero associated with his villain (Peter Pan) but rather Mulan.

Alsoalso, even if we accept your more complex interpretation, "cut to pieces" *could* easily be Scar. (Granted, that kind of evidence implies raiderTown rather than raiderScum IMO.)

[Iecerint]

Nice Gaga btw. <3

[Iecerint]

EBWOP. Eh, maybe you're right, though, on second thought. raiderTown is just going to tell us the truth. raiderScum is more likely to lie about Scar hangin out if there is evidence that he is there. Still, since there may be evidence that he is there, it's not clear that we're not in the latter situation.

OK, fine. I'm nullifying that. But I'm not putting it as a point in raider's corner.

Unvote; Vote: Kise

.

[Iecerint]

EBWOPx2: There's still WFH's argument about a decreased prior probability of a player being told scumroles. That's unaffected. Hard to test, though.

[Snow White]

Lol. thankies the bimbo jones remixes are gobsmacking hot. <3

On reflection i could be alternatively letting my mind run circles, i cant verifiably say Raider is in the clear. Im no cop here, his alignment is up to everybodies interpretation but i feel Kise is the better lynch. And if i am wrong i will take the heat people will give me. Ill just say people implying roles and not being able to sufficiently back them up has been a bane of mine.

WFH? man i feel like a newb. XD

[RayFrost]

wolframhart = wfh when it should be wrh (wolf ram hart)

[DrippingGoofball]

Kise is remarkably hard to lynch.

It is a good omen.

[wolframnhart]

A)Why is Kise being hard to lynch a good omen?

B)I am lost on the Kise case i admit...

[RayFrost]

A)Why is Kise being hard to lynch a good omen?

B)I am lost on the Kise case i admit...

I agree with this post.

[Iecerint]

Scum have a motivation not to lynch their friends. Town don't. So, given a circumstance where two players are comparably scummy and one goes down much more easily, that player is more likely to be town.

Obviously, the tell can be perverted if one player is legitimately scummier, but I am not convinced that that is a major concern in this case.

The Kise case is not very complex. Put simply, lying is very wrong, especially when you do it to lynch someone.

[Kise]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

[wolframnhart]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

I have to agree with Kise on this one.

[Kise]

Non existant my ass. "Saying DN wouldnt flip town, followed by a pretence claim of taking responsiblity if DN does flip town except that coincidentally the busdriver had something to do with it too and then denying he had ever implied such a power is a bad bad sign."

So do you think I know something extra about DN/Flare? Sounds like it. I was willing to risk DN flipping town and taking blame for leading the charge. I might use that escape plan in another game so I decline saying what I would of done if DN flipped town here.

In what way is manipulation good to the town? And if DN was a townie he was still going to flip dead townie. Not good for town. And wait a minute! I thought you were blaming the busdriver for if DN/Flareon flipped town?

It's good to the town to give them a reason to lynch a lurker. Had to make it sound like a night action result to juice it up.

Well now that DN has been replace with Flareonage who is by all accounts alot more active and participating than DN, what do you make of him? You still planning this candelstine lynch?

He's active. There's no reason to lynch someone willing to play.

[Iecerint]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

I have to agree with Kise on this one.

Targeting lurker townies like DN is easy, lazy scum play. There's a reason this is what Cobalt did all of D1.

I am sympathetic to players who want to lynch lurkers to make the game more fun, but it is not pro-town behavior.

[Kise]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. But, keep in mind, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know if DN was town or rival scum. So calling DN a lurker townie could be an inaccurate statement.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. I was talking about the Scar part.

[raider8169]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

So when a cop claims a guilty result everyone believes him right? What about when he finds out he is an insane cop? He finds out more information about his role as more things are revealed. Would you rather the cop not say something and lynch the person who would now be seen as town? Something similar has happened to me. You have the same information I have now so you should be able to understand how I was misunderstood. If I felt is was such a huge thing to think I was mistaken or a possible change to my stance the townie thing to do would be to inform everyone. When I am killed everyone will take what I say to be the truth. If I try and hide it then I would be hurting the rest of the town. You act like this is the first time this has happened this game. Look at DGB's claim before she replaced in and read what she claimed. They are not the same is that lynch worthy? People that have revealed information might have to change their understanding as they see how it fits into the game.

I wouldnt be surprised to see me lynched at anytime. The worse thing I could do is leave bad information to everyone else which would be confirmed once my role is flipped.

[Iecerint]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. But, keep in mind, even if I was scum, I wouldn't know if DN was town or rival scum. So calling DN a lurker townie could be an inaccurate statement.

1. Who is this directed at? I assume me.
2. It is vacuously true that scum often inadvertently scumhunt against the other team. Not sure what your point is.

[Kise]

My point is that you said I was "targeting lurker

townies

like DN."

[Iecerint]

My point is -- in what way does your point alter the validity of my point? Yeah, lurkerhunting scum may find the other team if they're earnest enough. That doesn't mean that scum are pro-town entities. It is also only relevant if you are scum.

[Kise]

Because when you say I went after lurker-town, you imply that DN was obvtown at the time I voted.

[Flareonage]

DN was a lurking a townie