Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[Kitten4u]

In which case, why have you put out 4 other "suspects"?

Can't help it if I find a couple of other people mildly suspicious. Or in the case of Elli very suspicious. Again, I wouldn't have even brought it up if you didn't ask me to.

I'll be charitable and call this a mistake rather than a lie. You said literally nothing beyond "That post bothers me but I'm not going to say why and I'm not going to make any specific accusations over it"

I said it struck me as disengenuous. Being disengenuous is obviously a bad thing.

[Leafsnail]

Again, I wouldn't have even brought it up if you didn't ask me to.

This is my problem. You only did it in order to try and get some suspicion off you.

I said it struck me as disengenuous. Being disengenuous is obviously a bad thing.

But it applies no pressure and tells you nothing to vaguely say something is "disingenuous". You made no specific allegations and it didn't contribute to your weak attack at all.

[Oman]

Well if you're jumping on just to see a claim on someone that you think is town, I'm calling that rolefishing.

Rock and a hard place, eh?

Meh, I really don't mind wagoning someone that I had a mostly null read on.

To L-1 is not just "wagoning" you did it for the claim.

Oman, are you sure he doesn't defend by attacking his attacker?

I never said that he didn't. but you're doing it again. I'm saying you're scummy for this, and you're trying to pass it off to someone else.

I'm happy with either Kitten or Elli on the block today, and I'll in all likely-hood be voting one of them tomorrow (the one that doesn't die today).

[Ellibereth]

I don't mind wagoning someone I a have a null-read on to a claim. Actually it's not that I don't mind. I like it.

[Budja]

I will be absent Fri-Sun AEST.
---
(Yes, I will post today before I leave tomorrow)

[Oman]

Straight up, I have never been more disappointed by a town I've looked forward to playing with. I am sick of this paralyzed inability to lynch. Goddamn hippies.

[pman5595]

Straight up, I have never been more disappointed by a town I've looked forward to playing with. I am sick of this paralyzed inability to lynch. Goddamn hippies.

I agree, lynching scum quickly is great. The key word, however, is

scum

. If we lynch too quickly, not only will we possibly lynch a townie, but we won't have any info to go on the next day.

[Oman]

We have plenty of info, we have 12 pages, this is a good length for the day.

Any more and our signal to noise ratio is going to drop, making it impossible to find scum amongst the textheavy first day.

[Ythill]

I hope you're not talking about me, I just replaced in to two games and would like to get a handle on this one before we lynch. Me being a hippie has nothing to do with it.

I think having these two wagons for awhile will be worth the wait.

[Thesp]

I know I'm behind in both of my games (work has been crazy lately, and the week has been busy!), but I intend to set some time aside this evening to play with you all. Though Oman did make me laugh, and I appreciate and agree with the sentiments.

[Sotty7]

Had some interweb/board issues yesterday that meant I couldn't actually access the game. Catching up for reals now.

[Sotty7]

The absence of an answer to a question can definately still tell you something. I feel that scum would be more likely to answer all the questions and try to get me off their backs.

Don't like this justification. Wouldn't scum just as likely ignore questions they don't want to answer? Wouldn't town want to answer all the questions put to them to make sure people see their towness?

If the shameless bandwagoning bothers you why aren't you pushing him on it?

Two things. First, Leafy is still worse in my opinion. Second, there's not really much to push when someone is shamelessly bandwagoning.

It doesn't matter who is worse. There should be more than one scum in this game. You could at least attempt to ask him some questions. Just saying you don't like Elli is such a throw away comment if you aren't going to put any pressure on him.

Okkkkkk, my gut now pings town on Kit for some reason. Leaving vote on for now but I still think that a Budja wagon would be good.

If you are reading Kitten town and want a wagon on Budja why not move your vote? Also why is your gut pinning town suddenly, all Kitten did was claim, what changed?

Kitten's post 258 was actually pretty good, explained things much better. I still don't really agree with her conclusion but I can now see how she got there. With that in mind I agree with Oman that Elli looks to just be role fishing, he hopped on the wagon specifically for the claim and has since said he has a gut town read on Kitten despite not taking the time to jump off and push others. This makes him jump up my scum list.

Went back and had another look at confid like I said I would and there isn't much there. His vote on Leaf was weak because he simply doesn't explain it. Bujda has replaced in and also done much of nothing. His turn on Kitten doesn't feel like a scum move but he really needs to get into the game here.

Unvote, Vote:Elli

Mainly for the explanation surrounding his Kitten jump. Voting someone for a wagon is a lot different than voting for a claim and I don't like that he has now parked his vote on a gut town read keeping her close to a lynch.

[Ellibereth]

Unvote, Vote:Elli

Hai. Try again next time.
I think I made it clear I voted to see a claim when I put her at L-1.
I'm still voting her even though I have a gut town read cause i don't mind lynching a VT claim D1.
Not switching to Budja because i would want a wagon and there is 0 momentum there right now.

[CrashTextDummie]

Very unhappy about the dissolution of the Kitten wagon. I am in complete agreement with Oman.

I have no interest in an Ellibereth wagon at this point. Will answer to Kitten a bit later, gotta run now.

[Wickedestjr]

Unless something while I'm catching up makes me more suspicious, I think I like this alternative:

Vote: pman5595

After seeing Kitten's large post, I'm starting to get a strong town read on her. I'm glad she took the time to explain her thinking, because, while I don't agree with it, it makes sense.

I am so unhappy with every person that unvoted Kitten. I am so disappointed in everyone that doesn't have the guts to stay at L-1.

People like you are the reason mafia is becoming a stagnant festival of repeated words.

Okay..?

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure what you're asking. I said that scum was more likley to skim over night-talk rules than town, because scum commonly have a more detailed ruleset for the night phase. So when asked about the night phase, a good scum player will go back and check the rules to see what a townie should know. Understand?

Yes. Now I do. Sorry.

That is, when she is attacked, she doesn't defend herself so much as attack her attacker. It's this sense of "calling me scummy is a scumtell".

Examples?


Okay, I don't have time to finish catching up, but I should have more time in the next few days. Anyway, I currently dislike all of the three biggest bandwagons. (Leaf, Kitten, and Ellibereth)

Leaf - Several of the things he's getting attacked for are things that I've gotten attacked for in the past when I was town. Most of the other points aren't convincing either. When I was more inexperienced, I used to ask lots of question during the RVS similar to Leaf's so him doing the same thing doesn't bother me at all. After thinking it through, the only point I actually think may have merit is the one regarding the night talk rules now that I get it.

Kitten - I really liked the first part of her wall post. The bandwagon on her is also too large for my liking.

Ellibereth - Despite him not contributing much, I actually have a strong town read on him. I dislike the size of his bandwagon also because I don't understand any of the reasons for it. His non-contribution is something I've seen town do more often than scum. We also seem to have similar ideas on certain topics.


pman looks like the best lynch to me.

[pman5595]

Unless something while I'm catching up makes me more suspicious, I think I like this alternative:

Vote: pman5595

can you please explain your reasons?

[Ythill]

@ Oman:

Told you so.

Ellibereth - Despite him not contributing much, I actually have a strong town read on him. I dislike the size of his bandwagon also because I don't understand any of the reasons for it.

Even though I haven't done my Elli iso-read yet, I can give you three. (1) I don't understand how his "joke" is funny, but I do understand how it acts as calculated WIFOM after he flips scum. (2) The blatant rolefishing is scummy or, at the very least, extremely anti-town. It also suggests that kitten is town. (3) He's playing like a BM alt, which means that he needs to die before LYLO anyway.

I'll try to do some more catching up today but no promises. Rest assured that I'll be ready to lynch soon.

[Ellibereth]

He's playing like a BM alt

Nope. Try again.
Seriously though, I like going with completely with my gut until a flip contradicts my gut. Hence my D1 play.

[Oman]

(2) The blatant rolefishing is scummy or, at the very least, extremely anti-town.

It also suggests that kitten is town.

How could I be so stupid? If Elli is scum with kitten is suggests really inappropriate distancing, or that kitten is town. Although nothing stops third parties, SKs etc.

That said, Kitten is now the best lynch, even over elli, as the risk/reward swings in favour of a kitten lynch, being that we have the claim and it's VT. Proper etiquette says kitten hangs, and elli is just running bad play.

That is, when she is attacked, she doesn't defend herself so much as attack her attacker. It's this sense of "calling me scummy is a scumtell".

Examples?

Firstly there is the General CTD issue, not any specific quotes, but Kitten was very light on him, until he started fighting back he went from just "weird" to "scummy".

This one affects me personally, and was where most of it started for me

So, before I continue, Oman, are you sure he doesn't defend by attacking his attacker? Because he didn't point out a bit of craplogic in that post like I asked people to.

After I make the point that Kitten does this, she just spins that comment on her to be an attack on someone else, something I'd never mentioned.

pman looks like the best lynch to me.

This feels very out of the blue. I just scanned through your posts and you call him a hypocrite once, but that's it.

[Thesp]

Okkkkkk, my gut now pings town on Kit for some reason. Leaving vote on for now but I still think that a Budja wagon would be good.

How are you not being lynched at this moment?

I'm torn here and I understand the call for a Kitten4u lynch after the vanilla claim. I still think it's a bad lynch, and there are two other very worthwhile considerations out there - Ellibereth and Budja.

..and Elli just dropped all of his town points.

He had town points?

Anyway, recent developments have given us an opportunity for good information. I want competing wagons betwen kitten and Elli. Hence my unvote; vote Ellibereth.

*hi-five*

And with all that said, no one was really commenting on my wall like I was hoping they would.

I have a hard time not skimming walls when replying. I read them once, but replying point-by-point is a drain on town resources.

We have plenty of info, we have 12 pages, this is a good length for the day.

Any more and our signal to noise ratio is going to drop, making it impossible to find scum amongst the textheavy first day.

This.

His turn on Kitten doesn't feel like a scum move but he really needs to get into the game here.

Do you think it's "not-a-scum-move" or "town-move"?

Ellibereth - Despite him not contributing much, I actually have a strong town read on him.

How? Do you have other examples? The only experience I recall with Ellibereth is very recent and very interrupted, but is extremely dissimilar to how he played when he was town.

pman looks like the best lynch to me.

This feels very out of the blue. I just scanned through your posts and you call him a hypocrite once, but that's it.

Agreed.

Needs more Ellibereth death.

Unvote: Budja, Vote: Ellibereth.

[Ythill]

I looked back over Elli and CTD. Elli's "joke" was a lot worse than I picked up on the skim and there is some

very mild

buddying in addition to what I already posted, otherwise it's as I stated. CTD looks squeaky-clean except that one post where he pushes kitten with the list.

@ CTD:

Why six points on your list? by my count there was only 3 (1-3 were the same thing, 5-6 too) and #4 is very vague. Were you intentionally trying to fluff up the case?

How could I be so stupid? If Elli is scum with kitten is suggests really inappropriate distancing, or that kitten is town... Proper etiquette says kitten hangs, and elli is just running bad play.

Etiquette? Really?

The only claim we are risking is Elli's. If he claims power and is town, I'd gladly trade him for the townie among you/me/CTD/Thesp that will die in his place. If he claims power and is scum, none of the four veterans listed are going to counter-claim and even if someone else does, we are trading less-experienced power for an IC's life. Besides, with Elli explicitly wagoning for roles, don't you think he's a similar risk to town power if left alive? It's not much of a trade. Meanwhile, he's scummier than kitten and more dangerous even if they're both town.

Your lack of insight is uncharacteristic. Is that what an Oman scum-slip looks like?

Note this for future reference, peeps.

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 295

Ellibereth (5): [My Milked Eek, pman5595, Sotty7, Thesp, Ythill]
Kitten4u (4): [Leafsnail, CrashTextDummie, Oman, Ellibereth]
Leafsnail (2): [Budja, Kitten4u]
pman5595 (1): [Wickedestjr]

Not Voting:

With 12 Players, a majority of 7 is needed for a lynch.
Deadline is 10pm, 24th Jan 2010 (GMT)

[Ythill]

MOD: I changed my vote to Ellibereth in #266.

heh thanks, fixed now.

[Sotty7]

That said, Kitten is now the best lynch, even over elli, as the risk/reward swings in favour of a kitten lynch, being that we have the claim and it's VT. Proper etiquette says kitten hangs, and elli is just running bad play.

Are you saying that with the Elli/Kitten link we should lynch Kitten first because of the townie claim?

His turn on Kitten doesn't feel like a scum move but he really needs to get into the game here.

Do you think it's "not-a-scum-move" or "town-move"?

This in reference to bujda's 180 on Kitten before “reading” the thread.

I don't think it is a town move, but in the same breath I don't see scum drawing attention to themselves in such a manner so I'm feeling pretty null on it. But when you put it side by side his lack of contribution I don't see anything overly townie from him so that is a worry. But right now I am find others scummier aka Elli.

[Sotty7]

That said, Kitten is now the best lynch, even over elli, as the risk/reward swings in favour of a kitten lynch, being that we have the claim and it's VT. Proper etiquette says kitten hangs, and elli is just running bad play.

Are you saying that with the Elli/Kitten link we should lynch Kitten first because of the townie claim?

His turn on Kitten doesn't feel like a scum move but he really needs to get into the game here.

Do you think it's "not-a-scum-move" or "town-move"?

This in reference to bujda's 180 on Kitten before “reading” the thread.

I don't think it is a town move, but in the same breath I don't see scum drawing attention to themselves in such a manner so I'm feeling pretty null on it. But when you put it side by side his lack of contribution I don't see anything overly townie from him so that is a worry. But right now I am find others scummier aka Elli.