Open 187- Silence of the Yams! Over!

[CSL]

Scorpion, you were on her bandwagon too.

[Starbuck]

I am not, I'm a Vanilla Townie.

And thanks for not even asking any questions to me before hammering.




@Town - You have a long way to go. Quit letting the mafia walk all over you.

[don_johnson]

"Cig?"

"Sure. What do you think

is going on in there? I mean, do they really need to figure this out today?"

"I don't know. This is really going to ruin Homecoming. Nana's Yams were the tastiest in town. What are we supposed to do now? Salt some radishes?"

"Come quick." It was kunkstar. "I think we figured it out."

As they stepped back into the dining room, Kdub and alexhans' mouths hit the floor. Before them in a macabre waltz, swung the body of Starbuck, twitching ever so slightly, as it twirled with the rhythm of the ceiling fan.

"She's the killer, I just know it, " caterwauled ElectricBadger. "She's always been jealous of Nana's yams."

But no. Xscorpion found her YMCA card in her back pocket. Right behind that was her license...

Starbuck,

townie

,

lynched day 1.

"You know, you guys should really try these, I mean, it's not like she's making any more."

Xscorpion-
Kdub-
alexhans-
kunkstar7-
Starbuck- (4) kunkstar7, ElectricBadger, Xscorpion, CSL
ElectricBadger- (1) Starbuck
CSL- (1) alexhans

Not Voting- Kdub

Night Actions in 72 Hours, please.

[/color]

[don_johnson]

With the nastiness of yesterday behind you,

and everyone agreeing to meet back at the shoppe in the morning, you were loathe to discover CSL,

town doctor

,

laying supine on the floor of Nana's kitchen. The yams were gone, well, not quite. It appears they had been fed(forcefully) to your poor doc at some point during the night.

Xscorpion-
Kdub-
alexhans-
kunkstar7-
ElectricBadger-

Not Voting- Xscorpion, Kdub, alexhans, kunkstar7, ElectricBadger

with five alive it takes three to lynch

.

[alexhans]

Ok guys...

I'm pretty pissed at CSL for his anti-town play but the good thing is... Both players I thought were definetly scummy are removed from the game and I've almost completed a re-read on the game that is quite telling.

I'll post it ASAP.

Rule Number ONE of Lylo (2 scum 3 town):

NOBODY VOTES

. Do I make myself clear? `

Nobody

Rule Number TWO:

No claims unless we all agree to MC and the order in wich we will

Rule Number THREE:

Post your suspicions on every player from the game so far

If someone breaks any of this rules they may easyly lose the game. Don't be reckless.

[Kdub]

I'm busy most of today but I should be able to post thoughts tonight.

[ElectricBadger]

"The Rules" are more than a bit heavy handed, but seem reasonable.

My main suspicion is Xscorpion, per 180.

[Kdub]

I agree with a mass claim. We should start with the player most people find suspicious, then popcorn it from there.

I think that one of Badger and alex are scum, but probably not both because I don't think both scum would push so hard against a town player on D1. Between the two of them, I am more inclined to think Badger is scum. I did not like his "easy lynch on town" comment about CSL that I pointed out yesterday, and his response in 211 sounds like a weak excuse with a bit of a jab at me thrown in at the end (what exactly was I answering for Starbuck?). Alex's attitude seems slightly town, though there's not as many posts to go on since he replaced in late.

XScorpion was on CSL most of the day (can't disagree with his reasons), then switched to Starbuck after the claim. The odd thing when I go back and read him in iso is that he doesn't indicate any suspicion of Starbuck until late in the day (post 188) then goes to voting her shortly after that. That seems pretty opportunistic to me. Badger's suspicion of him (which consisted of exactly one post) could easily be distancing. I'm thinking Badger/Scorpion is my top choice for a scum pairing.

I mentioned yesterday that kunkstar's words seemed genuine to me, and I like him more on a reread, despite the fact that I disagreed with his opinion on the Badger/Starbuck argument.

Summary: Badger is my top scum candidate, followed by XScorpion. I'm reading town on alex and kunkstar.

[ElectricBadger]

I disagree with mass claim. There is only one role left to claim, and I think it's best to leave it to the cop to decide when and how to do so. Or did you mean with the method, v. doing a claim now?

Badger's suspicion of him (which consisted of exactly one post) could easily be distancing.

Hmm, I'm scummy for not paying enough attention to Xscorpion, compared to your own thorough analysis and questions:

XScorpion really flew under the radar when I read through the game. Nothing really jumped out at me about his play. Most likely I will have to reread him tomorrow, taking the lynch and NK flips into account and reevaluate.

...Which EXPLICITLY let him fly under said radar until today. You complain about lack of investigation, but also complain about the one post that stated a real case against him.

[alexhans]

Voting patterns:

XScorpion

: Kunkstar7,Ectomancer, Kunkstar, CSL, Starbuck

(Parts)KDub

: ElectricBadger, CSL

(Cat, JoshLyman)alexhans

: Parts, unvote, Parts

kunkstar7

: XScorpion, unvote, Starbuck

(ectomancer) Starbuck

: ElectricBadger, unvote, ElectricBadger

ElectricBadger

: Cat, Ectomancer, Parts, Ecto, Parts, Unvote, Xscorpion, Starbuck

CSL

: kunkstar, Badger, Unvote, Parts, Unvote, Starbuck

I still think Badger is town. I'm trying to discern who is more probable to be scum with Xscorpion who I'm pretty positive is scum.

The important thing here is to go look at the reasons for the votes and the context in wich people voted. Badgers votes always had what seemed like a good intent to scumhunt.

Kunstar didnt really vote until he voted Starbucks. This looks bad. It's like as if he didn't care to pressure people.

Xscorpion joked a lot and wanted RVS to be an excuse for what he did.

KDub put CSL at L-1 in his... 2nd post?

Xscorpion READ

Xscorpion:
- Joked a lot during RVS
- Distanced himself from the Ecto/Badger fight and voted Kunstar for no apparent reason.
- "As far as I'm concerned this is still RVS until everyone is actually posting. " Maintained the pretense of RVS when called upon it
- "@Ecto- what is your opinion of RVS? " <- lame question means mild scum.
- [ulr=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#2028647]ISO 14[/url] feels a bit better but I still get the feeling that he is trying to look active without doing much.
-"In my experience, first page RVS votes almost never indicate scum...it is the reactions to said votes that lead to slips. " Yet. He never looked like trying to read or analize reactions
- "Did scum get a chance to talk to each other before the game started?" Typical bullshit question... It may be null but also may be used as scum to look like town...
- "So...before the thread opened it was night 0? " Kept at it.
- "You and CSL both are thinking Badger/XScorpion scum team huh? " mmm, I don't like this. It makes me suspect a scumteam that I would've previously disregarded.
- finally a non one liner post. Still doesnt say much... Uses the same arguments Badger and I used.
and finally... The vote to L-1 post...

Xscorpion has been laid back all game. Suspecting based on pretty much the same things me or Badger said previously.

He has avoided talking too much and commited as less as he could. I'm pretty confident he is scum who tries to hide. He said a lot of logical things (wich I liked) but didn't show a scumhunting intent. EVER.

Alexhans, you came into this quite strong.
In my view, I'm leaning more Starbuck, considering some things that have been pointed out this page. Between the claim situation and the answers on this page, she's a more likely candidate than any other at this point. The reason I'm leaning Starbuck is because although CSL has been playing badly, a lynch on him won't give us anything to work with the next day. From one of my previous posts I pointed out that the alignments in this game seem to revolve around Starbuck and ElectricBadger. With a Starbuck lynch I think we will have the best position for the next day.

Vote: Starbuck

I have some problems with this... Kunstar implied that CSL lynch would give us less info than a Starbuck lynch when CSL had been much more lurky and anti-town. Now that they're both dead. What do you get from all this? (192 says more about it)

alex, can you cut down on the line-by-line analysis? You don't have to respond to every single sentence in its own quote box, it makes it hard to see your main point.

I'll try. I usually try to cover EVERYTHING. You never know wich answer might give you a good read.

200 from Kdub
is pretty logical and accurate in his reads. The only thing I dislike is that he just voted putting CSL at L-1 without showing any kind of expectation for an answer. Did he not know that CSL might end up claiming? But I like his following post attacking starbucks.


CSL's playstyle this game was horrible and really anti-town. Starbucks actions were not so scummy at first but later become really weird with all his asking for a claim and then trying to pretend that it was not his fault tha CSL claimed.
If I have to call the scumteam, right here, right now... I'll say Xscorpion + Kunstar7.

and in 214 comes XScorpions sudden vote that looks too opportunistic after everyone is attacking Starbucks... I don't like it.

Really not liking how you've been so eager to get claims, and now the doc has (supposedly) been revealed thanks to your demands for everyone to claim at L-1.

This has been brought up by others and challenged by Starbuck a couple times before, but you've never commented until now. Any reason for that?

^^THIS.

although there was a mild connection between Badger and Xscorpion... I still like Badger's actions and feel they're genuinely town. His post of today looks town (he doesnt want the cop, apparently)

Also, he was the only person who voted Xscorpion and looks like he posted good reasons for it. check it out

Something else that doesn't look good about Xscorpion is the fact that he avoided so much as a comment in the game when day 2 started (and he posted elsewhere)

reading parts I don't see too much of a connection with who I currently think is scum so I keep guessing that it's Xscorpion + kunstar7.

So...

questions:

Xscorpion:

Who do you think is scum? What do you think about my case on you? Do you think I interpreted you wrongly?

Kunstar:

As I said. I want you to develop on Starbucks and CSL deaths. What do you make of them now that they flipped? You have ALSO avoided posting here while posting elsewhere... why is that?

Kdub:

What do you think about my case on Xscorpion and kunstar7? Do you think there's any telling links between players? Who and why?

Badger:

I'd like your opinions about my post too.

[ElectricBadger]

Badger:

I'd like your opinions about my post too.

I'd like to hear from our lurkers before continuing too far, but I agree with it - not surprisingly, as most of it agrees with me.

I would like to hear more about your case on kunkstar. He's shifted pretty far from your first post, which had him leaning town, and you've only written a couple lines to explain: specifically his non-voting and implying CSL would yield limited info.

[alexhans]

I've written an answer to your question in my notes and will post it once Xscorp and kunkstar7 come.

also... sorry kunkstar7... I've been calling you kunstar...

[kunkstar7]

I'll start with, alexhans the reason I have not posted here so far is the computers at school do not allow me to do isos. I would much rather wait a few hours to go over the thread in the way I want.

The things striking me at the moment:

Both replacements voted CSL upon entering. He was looking the easiest lynch at the moment.
I'm viewing it unlikely that both of these slots were scum, but one of them is.
Kdub has continued his predecessors streak of viewing Badger as scum.

Another thing is alexhans has basically excused himself and everyone who voted CSL or Starbuck with the following quote.

CSL's playstyle this game was horrible and really anti-town. Starbucks actions were not so scummy at first but later become really weird with all his asking for a claim and then trying to pretend that it was not her fault that CSL claimed.

I don't like this, it provides you with an easy excuse to wriggle out of blame for voting either one.

Developing on their deaths, CSL changed when he claimed doctor. Up until that point his play was, as you stated, "horrible and really anti-town." His lurking and general nonposts didn't relate much into this game besides the fact that he was being scummy. This in effect creates a null-tell, as everyone viewed CSl as just being anti-town, with no irregularities. When he claimed doctor he gave the scum the chance to remove a known power role from the game.

One of the things I looked to gain from the Starbuck lynch was a view of Parts/Kdub. Both Starbuck and Parts/Kdub have maintained that ElectricBadger is a likely scum candidate. The interactions between the two made them a likely team. Yet with Starbuck being town, it obviously negates that team, and brings to mind a possible buddying by Parts agreeing with Starbuck that EB is scum. I would also like clarification from Kdub as to whether he was asking for a massclaim or agreeing with alex that order should be determined first. If he was saying that he would like a massclaim, that looks scummy in my mind as he so far is the only one that has leaned that way, and scum would be the only benefactor of that at the moment.

[alexhans]

Another thing is alexhans has basically excused himself and everyone who voted CSL or Starbuck with the following quote.

Really, then why do I suspect people? Everyone voted either Starbucks or CSL... That means I've excused everyone? Bullshit.

CSL's playstyle this game was horrible and really anti-town. Starbucks actions were not so scummy at first but later become really weird with all his asking for a claim and then trying to pretend that it was not her fault that CSL claimed.

I don't like this, it provides you with an easy excuse to wriggle out of blame for voting either one.

I don't need an excuse for voting either one... I posted what I thought about them and still think CSL is one of the worst players I've seen so far (He lynched Starbucks with no real need and played an awful game). Also, you voted for them too... If you're town, you were wrong too...

It's not just about being right or wrong but about the reasons someone has to do stuff and the context in wich they do it.

I DARE you to say I had no reason for voting CSL. I dare you to challenge my thoughts were I disagreed with Starbucks.

Also, If you have something to say about it. Why didn't you mention it earlier? When I was attacking both CSL and Starbuck?

Developing on their deaths, CSL changed when he claimed doctor. Up until that point his play was, as you stated, "horrible and really anti-town." His lurking and general nonposts didn't relate much into this game besides the fact that he was being scummy. This in effect creates a null-tell, as everyone viewed CSl as just being anti-town, with no irregularities. When he claimed doctor he gave the scum the chance to remove a known power role from the game.

This is an empty paragraph...

You say that CSL was anti town and lurking and scummy but that it was a null tell? Who the HELL viewed him as just anti-town? I don't vote if I think someone is just anti-town, I vote someone because I think he may be scum and in the WCS, just an anti-town player.

"When he claimed doctor he gave the scum the chance to remove a known power role from the game." WTF. You're not saying anything. Looks like filler.

I would also like clarification from Kdub as to whether he was asking for a massclaim or agreeing with alex that order should be determined first. If he was saying that he would like a massclaim, that looks scummy in my mind as he so far is the only one that has leaned that way, and scum would be the only benefactor of that at the moment.

Wait, can he agree that "the order should be determined first" without asking for an MC? What happens if the cop has a town/scum result? Do you think the cop should just play silently? If someone else was also calling for MC, would you think it would be scummy? or the fact that he is the only is the deciding point?

This "development" on CSL and Starbucks death is really unimpressive... Why was it impossible to mention Part's possible buddying yesterday? Why couldn't you look at both possible outcomes as I once asked you to do, IIRC?

Who do you think is scum? Did you re-read the game or something?

[XScorpion]

The top two potential scum on my list both died yesterday so now I'm a little disoriented. I've also realized that I really shouldn't be going in so many games at once, 3 games seems to be a little over my limit, as the argument that "I've been laid back and not scumhunting" is getting used in my other games too, so apologies for not being up to my usual standards.
I really don't see the point of a mass claim for any reason other than to reveal the cop to scum, and as such I'm very against that. Anyone care to explain the logic behind it?
Taking a random stab at a scumteam, I'm gonna guess that it's kunkstar & KDub. I'm getting a very strong town feel from Badger, and I highly doubt that Starbuck's lynch didn't have any scum on it, leaving Kunkstar the obvious choice. Not to mention that he had no non-random votes for all of day 1 except for Starbuck, which I do not like. If he was so suspicious of CSL, why did he never vote him? KDub's suggest for a mass claim earns scumpoints from me, and the fact that he put CSL at L-1 so quickly after joining is a little suspicious.
Pretty sure Badger and Alex are the other 2 town.

[kunkstar7]

Another thing is alexhans has basically excused himself and everyone who voted CSL or Starbuck with the following quote.

Really, then why do I suspect people? Everyone voted either Starbucks or CSL... That means I've excused everyone? Bullshit.

Perhaps I should clarify that I meant that you excused everyone for the singular action of voting either CSL or Starbuck. Basically made it seem like they were asking for it, and it was coming to them, so it can't be telling of anyone.

I don't need an excuse for voting either one... I posted what I thought about them and still think CSL is one of the worst players I've seen so far (He lynched Starbucks with no real need and played an awful game). Also, you voted for them too... If you're town, you were wrong too...

It's not just about being right or wrong but about the reasons someone has to do stuff and the context in wich they do it.

I DARE you to say I had no reason for voting CSL. I dare you to challenge my thoughts were I disagreed with Starbucks.

....you had no reason for voting CSL! Whatcha gonna do about that?? Just joking, got to have some fun .

Ok back to serious.

I did not say that your reasons for voting either CSL or Starbuck were misplaced. I was stating that that quote provides a convenient cover in the case of anyone seeing a tell in anyone voting either of those two.

Developing on their deaths, CSL changed when he claimed doctor. Up until that point his play was, as you stated, "horrible and really anti-town." His lurking and general nonposts didn't relate much into this game besides the fact that he was being scummy. This in effect creates a null-tell, as everyone viewed CSL as just being anti-town, with no irregularities. When he claimed doctor he gave the scum the chance to remove a known power role from the game.

This is an empty paragraph...

You say that CSL was anti town and lurking and scummy but that it was a null tell? Who the HELL viewed him as just anti-town? I don't vote if I think someone is just anti-town, I vote someone because I think he may be scum and in the WCS, just an anti-town player.

This one was an error of myself. It should read:

This in effect creates a null-tell, as everyone viewed CSl as being anti-town, with no irregularities.

I have some problems with this... Kunkstar implied that CSL lynch would give us less info than a Starbuck lynch when CSL had been much more lurky and anti-town.

What I was going here was why the CSL lynch provided less info than Starbuck. Everyone viewed CSL as being anti-town, so any possible partners were thrown out the window. I say anti-town because EB mentioned that he was mostly under pressure for bad play rather than scumminess.

He's potentially an easy lynch due to his general lack of scumhunting and hypocrisy. But that would be more of a policy lynch: I don't think he's on the radar for being scum so much as for bad play.

Combined with the fact he flipped town.

"When he claimed doctor he gave the scum the chance to remove a known power role from the game." WTF. You're not saying anything. Looks like filler.

That is why I believe he was the nightkill choice rather than ending up as today's lynch target.

I would also like clarification from Kdub as to whether he was asking for a massclaim or agreeing with alex that order should be determined first. If he was saying that he would like a massclaim, that looks scummy in my mind as he so far is the only one that has leaned that way, and scum would be the only benefactor of that at the moment.

1. Wait, can he agree that "the order should be determined first" without asking for an MC?
2. What happens if the cop has a town/scum result?
3. Do you think the cop should just play silently?
4. If someone else was also calling for MC, would you think it would be scummy?
5. or the fact that he is the only is the deciding point?

1. If he isn't asking for a MC, he isn't asking for a MC.
2. If the cop has a result, they most likely can find a way to get their point across with jepordizing their hiding.
3. Not silently. If they have a result, they should lead the town to that without giving themselves away (Unless that's what you meant by silently. In that case yes.). They save themselves for the final day and give us a result.
4. I would also think that someone else calling for a MC would be scummy at this point.
5. Answered by 4.

This "development" on CSL and Starbucks death is really unimpressive... Why was it impossible to mention Part's possible buddying yesterday? Why couldn't you look at both possible outcomes as I once asked you to do, IIRC?

It wasn't impossible to mention Parts buddying, I mentioned yesterday how it would help determine what ties there were between the two. Yesterday was based only on guesses as we did not know either CSL or Starbuck's alignments. There was suspicion of a Parts/Starbuck team, and with now knowing Starbuck was town that is not a possibility anymore.

[Kdub]

Badger:
It's not that you didn't pay enough attention to XScorpion, it's that you had one post about him yesterday, now suddenly he is your top suspect. I should also note that you did not share your opinions of anyone else when alex asked for everyone's opinion of others.

alex:
I agree mostly with your case on XScorpion, he seemed to be opportunistic (particularly with the Starbuck vote) but otherwise didn't say much. Your quote of kunkstar, I agreed with as well (I mentioned this a bit yesterday), but I think his attitude overall has come across to me as town. I don't see much else of a case on him, so I don't know what else to comment on.

XScorpion and kunk:
I was agreeing with alex that we should mass claim, but decide on an order first. Given that it is lylo, I think a mass claim is appropriate. The whole point of mass claim and deciding an order beforehand is that we want likely scum to have to claim before the cop in order to limit their options should they decide to counterclaim. Setting up a 1v1 via counterclaim isn't a bad thing, since it's likely that we will find connections and catch both scum if we lynch correctly today. However, we want to give the scum as little room to fabricate a cop claim as possible. I find it pretty subversive of XScorpiion to give me scumpoints for "suggesting" mass claim when I wasn't even the one who initially proposed it.

[XScorpion]

Alex didn't propose a mass claim, he said that it should be done rather than a single person claiming. You are indeed suggesting a mass claim be done right now, and I am VERY disinclined to agree.

[ElectricBadger]

Blah...feeling gross today, and too many walls to focus on. I'll try to give them proper attention later. For now:

That is why I believe he was the nightkill choice rather than ending up as today's lynch target.

I are confused. Why would CSL have been today's lynch if he'd lived?

Badger:
It's not that you didn't pay enough attention to XScorpion, it's that you had one post about him yesterday, now suddenly he is your top suspect.

I believe you're complaining that you aren't. Don't worry, that's being resolved.

I should also note that you did not share your opinions of anyone else when alex asked for everyone's opinion of others.

True. Is that pro-mafia? Though if you've read my posts, both yesterday and today, then my suspects should be pretty clear.

I was agreeing with alex that we should mass claim,

No. There is zero benefit for town with this. Our top suspect will claim when we are prepared to lynch, and then the cop only needs to counterclaim if the fake claim is convincing.

Some of my case v. Parts was his buddying with Ecto. The rest is a hard call between bad play and scummy, although I lean scummy. Following starbuck's flip I wanted to hear more from Kdub to make a decision.

Kdub's dismissal of Xscorpion yesterday, weak suspicion today and attacks on me for making a case against him read as a confused scum partner.

Xscorpion: be careful discussing other games. In any case, they're a WIFOM situation - for all we know you're scum there too.

Also, in 224 you complain about CSL's quickhammer. Why? You were the one who put her in a position where a lynch was imminent, she'd claimed and a vanilla claim shouldn't stop a hammer.

[kunkstar7]

Blah...feeling gross today, and too many walls to focus on. I'll try to give them proper attention later. For now:

That is why I believe he was the nightkill choice rather than ending up as today's lynch target.

I are confused. Why would CSL have been today's lynch if he'd lived?

He would not have necessarily been the lynch, but he would have been one of the major suspects and under a lot of the pressure to defend himself from the start of the day due to the way everyone viewed him yesterday. Hence me saying lynch

target

instead of straight lynch.

[XScorpion]

I didn't expect CSL to hammer right after I placed the vote...Starbuck wasn't the first person at L-1, so I assumed that town wouldn't hammer unless everyone had discussed it first (as they did with CSL). Not to mention that CSL didn't even bother to ask Starbuck any questions (which might have changed CSL's mind about things, but it's too late now to know).

[Kdub]

Badger:
Your suggestion will almost certainly lead to either a cop claim (accomplishing the same as mass claim without deciding on an order first) or a ton of WIFOM. Do you see why?

Blah...feeling gross today, and too many walls to focus on. I'll try to give them proper attention later. For now:

That is why I believe he was the nightkill choice rather than ending up as today's lynch target.

I are confused. Why would CSL have been today's lynch if he'd lived?

He would not have necessarily been the lynch, but he would have been one of the major suspects and under a lot of the pressure to defend himself from the start of the day due to the way everyone viewed him yesterday. Hence me saying lynch

target

instead of straight lynch.

This quote bugs me a bit. CSL was the confirmed doctor when nobody counterclaimed him, so there is absolutely no chance he would have been the lynch today, regardless of his behavior. Can you explain more what you mean here? Also, I believe everyone but you has given their opinions on who they believe to be the scum pair. Can you tell us who your two scum suspects are?

[Kdub]

Badger:
Your suggestion will almost certainly lead to either a cop claim (accomplishing the same as mass claim without deciding on an order first) or a ton of WIFOM. Do you see why?

Blah...feeling gross today, and too many walls to focus on. I'll try to give them proper attention later. For now:

That is why I believe he was the nightkill choice rather than ending up as today's lynch target.

I are confused. Why would CSL have been today's lynch if he'd lived?

He would not have necessarily been the lynch, but he would have been one of the major suspects and under a lot of the pressure to defend himself from the start of the day due to the way everyone viewed him yesterday. Hence me saying lynch

target

instead of straight lynch.

This quote bugs me a bit. CSL was the confirmed doctor when nobody counterclaimed him, so there is absolutely no chance he would have been the lynch today, regardless of his behavior. Can you explain more what you mean here? Also, I believe everyone but you has given their opinions on who they believe to be the scum pair. Can you tell us who your two scum suspects are?

[ElectricBadger]

Badger:
Your suggestion will almost certainly lead to either a cop claim (accomplishing the same as mass claim without deciding on an order first) or a ton of WIFOM. Do you see why?

I believe the key difference is

almost certainly

versus

definitely

. A fake claim today shouldn't automatically inspire a counterclaim, unless it's found believable first, and the ideal way to end the day is with dead scum and an unclaimed cop.

I think we have decent players left. Whomever the cop is, I'm willing to trust them to claim when they think best. Order wouldn't really matter for a mass claim, as it's an open setup with two scum and only one role left.

[Kdub]

Badger:
Your suggestion will almost certainly lead to either a cop claim (accomplishing the same as mass claim without deciding on an order first) or a ton of WIFOM. Do you see why?

I believe the key difference is

almost certainly

versus

definitely

. A fake claim today shouldn't automatically inspire a counterclaim, unless it's found believable first, and the ideal way to end the day is with dead scum and an unclaimed cop.

Fair enough, although the details will depend on what the player claims and who the cop happened to investigate last night. I don't think things will be quite as simple as you put it, but I will support it.

Still waiting to hear from kunkstar, then I think we will be ready to make a decision.