Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:15 pm

Post by dybeck »

bv310 wrote:Deadline's not until the 26th. I see no need to force a vote right now, not while there's still a bit of discussion going on.
Only votes apply pressure. And only pressure causes scum to have to answer questions. Pressure can tell you whether a player is going to act defensively or remain calm. Pressure can cause slipups. Pressure causes scummates to come out of the woodwork in defence of the target.

The vote is the only tool the town has and it's naive to think it's just used to lynch.

I can see this post causing a week-long discussion of mafia strategy, which really wouldn't be productive. I'd just ask those who aren't voting to bear it in mind (and vote).

Another thing that we might like to bear in mind is that The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe doesn't exactly have a huge Dramatis Personae. This game is ripe for a massclaim. Maybe not today though. Let's see how we get on with a regular lynch.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 am

Post by Papa Zito »

bv310 wrote:Deadline's not until the 26th. I see no need to force a vote right now, not while there's still a bit of discussion going on.
"A bit of discussion" is being generous. This game is moving at a snail's pace.

Scumlist plz.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:00 am

Post by kikuchiyo »

PZ: I never implied or said I was giving anyone "carte blanche". The previous exchange was reminiscent to me of a similar argument involving Starbuck in another game where I convinced myself she was scum. That is why I have been ignoring it.

However, she now seems to be avoiding this thread.

Vote: Starbuck
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:03 am

Post by MadCrawdad »

@bv310


As you didn't say anything about it, I'm assuming that you agree with my assessment of your play thus far?

----------
Riceballtail wrote:Not voting means you don't think anyone is scummy. At least one person must be scummier than the rest to everyone. Not sharing that information with the town is, well, scummy.
I disagree with saying that it's scummy not to have an actual vote by this point. Not voting may mean that you don't find anyone scummy
enough
to receive a vote, yet. It certainly doesn't mean that one doesn't have any suspects or persons of interest.

unvote
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:18 am

Post by manho »

Papa Zito wrote:
kdub (modified) wrote:Not Voting (4)- kikuchiyo, bv310, manho, Grandi
Vote people.
i haven't found someone scummy enough to get a vote.

busy with the new semester, and will post more after i get through the first week.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:38 am

Post by manho »

V/LA until 17/1

V/LA is noted.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:40 am

Post by Kdub »

Vote Count

Starbuck (3)
- dybeck, Papa Zito, kikuchiyo
Riceballtail (0)
-
bv310 (0)
-
MadCrawdad (0)
-
kikuchiyo (0)
-
Heilograph (0)
-
Papa Zito (2)
- Heilograph, Sibelius
wolframnhart (0)
-
Grandi (2)
- wolframnhart, Starbuck
manho (1)
- Riceballtail
dybeck (0)
-
Sibelius (0)
-
No Lynch (0)
-
Not Voting (4)
- bv310, manho, Grandi, MadCrawdad

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is January 26, ~ 12:30 am MST.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 am

Post by Papa Zito »

manho wrote:i haven't found someone scummy enough to get a vote.
...
Papa Zito wrote:Scumlist plz.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:07 am

Post by bv310 »

MadCrawdad wrote:
@bv310


As you didn't say anything about it, I'm assuming that you agree with my assessment of your play thus far?
I went back and tried to reread myself unbiased, and it does seem pretty wishy-washy, even to me. I still think my vote there was right, but putting it back now seems even MORE wishy washy. I'd like to see Star's answers to some questions that have been posed to her before I make up my mind.
Riceballtail wrote:Not voting means you don't think anyone is scummy. At least one person must be scummier than the rest to everyone. Not sharing that information with the town is, well, scummy.
So far, Starbuck and PZ are the most scummy to me. I think my opinion of Starbuck right now is more just based on eveybody else's reactions to her.

PZ on the other hand, seems really scummy by trying to lead the town. It's annoying to play with someone who always tries to lead the game, and most players that lead are usually scum.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:58 am

Post by dybeck »

bv310 wrote:most players that lead are usually scum.
except me.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Post by Heilograph »

Im sorry for not being as active as i should be, some issues have came up. I shall be back to posting on friday.
Wondering if they will ever make a mafiascum app for iPhone...

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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:03 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

It can normally seem scummy if someone is leading the town true, but no one is saying you have to follow them. If you believe the person the leader is trying to push is not scummy then you can easily find your own suspect.

As it is I am STILL fine with my vote on J.R.(now Grandi) until i see more from him.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:06 pm

Post by bv310 »

To me, the way PZ has been leading seems scummy. Maybe I'm just reading too much (or too little) into it.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:07 pm

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bv310 wrote:To me, the way PZ has been leading seems scummy. Maybe I'm just reading too much (or too little) into it.
How am I leading the town?

How is whatever I'm doing scummy exactly?
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:26 pm

Post by MadCrawdad »

bv310 wrote:
MadCrawdad wrote:
@bv310


As you didn't say anything about it, I'm assuming that you agree with my assessment of your play thus far?
I went back and tried to reread myself unbiased, and it does seem pretty wishy-washy, even to me. I still think my vote there was right, but putting it back now seems even MORE wishy washy. I'd like to see Star's answers to some questions that have been posed to her before I make up my mind.
Which vote of yours are you referring to as being 'right'?
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:13 pm

Post by Kdub »

Sibelius and Starbuck have been prodded.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:18 pm

Post by dybeck »

bv310 wrote:To me, the way PZ has been leading seems scummy. Maybe I'm just reading too much (or too little) into it.
It's odd that you should say that about Papa Zito...

I voted Heilograph... then Papa Zito voted Heilograph...
I voted Starbuck... then Papa Zito voted Starbuck...
I argued the point that L-3 wasn't close to a lynch... then Papa Zito argued the same...
I questioned Kikuchiyo... then Papa Zito questioned Kikuchiyo...

Leading wasn't a word I was thinking in relation to Papa Zito's style so far... Not sure whether it's scummy or not tbh... anyone got any thoughts?
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:26 am

Post by wolframnhart »

I am not sure it's a pattern of scum or pattern of thoughts being the same dybeck, after all a couple people argues that L-3 wasn't a close lynch.

However it could be something to keep an eye on.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:12 am

Post by kikuchiyo »

I think bv310 will draw my next vote. I'm not moving until we get a little Starbuck in here...
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:20 am

Post by Riceballtail »

@Dybeck: The correlation between you an PZ is similar to myself and Tar, except we don't necessairly have a particular "lead/follow" example. I do agree that it is something that should be watched, but it's not to the extreme yet where I feel it's completely scummy yet.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:25 am

Post by dybeck »

wolframnhart wrote:I am not sure it's a pattern of scum or pattern of thoughts being the same dybeck, after all a couple people argues that L-3 wasn't a close lynch.

However it could be something to keep an eye on.
I'm not really making an observation that it's scummy either. But I noted it and thought I'd bring it up as a topic for discussion. It's also possible that Papa Zito is an alt that I set up to agree with me to make my arguments seem credible. I'll be on the look out for further evidence of that.

Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:34 am

Post by Starbuck »

It's been a crazy couple of days with work. My apologies all. It's eval time for my rank in the Navy.

On Papa Zito
Papa Zito wrote:However, you drummed up fear by announcing you were worried about a quicklynch.

Further, you simultaneously announced you were saving us from said danger by unvoting and calling attention to the problem.

It's like when Clorox runs TV ads showing telephones (literally) crawling with germs, then shows how wonderful their product is at killing said germs. Drum up the hype, drum up sales.

I can see a scum player doing this to earn townie cred.

Hopefully that's crystal clear now.
Wow. Reaching much. Can you provide specific examples for each of those accusations?



On dybeck
dybeck wrote:I'm not sure I'd be entirely unhappy about a kikuchiyo wagon, either.

I'd sincerely like to see her vote, and to give a sincere justification for her choice, for starters.
You say that in Post 106, and she voted in here.

Do you feel it was sincere?
dybeck wrote:Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.
You've obviously never played with me and know that the only reason that I'll won't be around is because work picked up in some way or another.

For the record, for all of you, I am active duty in the United States Navy. I can't spend my entire work day on the computer and some days, I'm just too plain exhausted to stay awake at night and catch up. But for the most part, I think I'm one of the most active players when it comes to my games.

Do me a favor and check out some of my previous games for my normal amount of activity before you decide to call me out on anything. I do everything in my power to not be a lurker because I despise lurkers. I definitely take great offense to being called one, and I'm willing to bet that someone is going to use this in their "case" on me, but I honestly don't care because most people who have prior experience with me know my opinion about lurkers and know my normal activity level.

Unfortunately though, sometimes my job and life gets in the way of my activity here and I can't control that. So why don't you do a little background checking before you start slinging a word like lurker at me.




On kikuchiyo

So you say the following in Post 117:
kikuchiyo wrote:I am participating as I see fit. Which vote are you suggesting I make? I am not sold on Starbuck as scum. I see no reason to "commit" to anything at this point.
kikuchiyo wrote: I don't disagree with the reasons players are voting for Starbuck(PZ's makes sense), but meta tells me to overlook her for now.
Then you go ahead and vote in Post 127, while saying the following:
kikuchiyo wrote:However, she now seems to be avoiding this thread.
Quite a fast turn around with a bit of opportunism, don't cha think?

My apologies for my job taking priority over my mafia game on the internet. :roll:

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.



On Grandi
Grandi wrote:I can understand if you would rather have other ways out of RVS, but i would really like to hear from everyone against a random wagon why they think that's scummy.
Also, Starbuck, a lot of games on this site start with random wagons. You must have come across a couple if you really played 30ish games here. Do you always respond this way, or is there something especially scummy here? Links/examples of you reaction to random wagons this way please. Also, people who played with her before, have you seen her react like this before?
A lot of games start with random wagons? They may start with random wagons, but normally don't get up to L-3 barely off the 1st page.

You've never played with me before I'm guessing. No, I don't always respond this way. I saw something, and I didn't like it and I said something about it. Apparently though, others are taking it as a scumtell.

And no offense, but I'm really not going through my 30+ games to appease you. If you want to read my meta, feel free, but I'm not gonna do your homework for you. If that leads to my lynch, so be it.
Grandi wrote:I can see absolutely no reason for a townie to react the way SB did, trying to "stop the quicklynch". The only thing i can come up with is if she thought the wagon would go straight to lynch, and i simply can't believe that someone who played 30ish games here believes there is a chance a random wagon without a case or anything is in danger of being lynched when it is at L-3
There's no reason for me to believe that it couldn't happen. You are so absolute in this. It bothers me.
Grandi wrote:Any semi-decent player could see there was no danger of lynching there, and if there was it would only be good as it exposes scum.
Not a fan of your ad hom.


On bv310
bv310 wrote:So far, Starbuck and PZ are the most scummy to me. I think my opinion of Starbuck right now is more just based on eveybody else's reactions to her.
So you aren't going to bring anything new to the table? That's awesome!
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:21 pm

Post by bv310 »

I don't have anything new to bring because I haven't seen anything new to bring. The last couple pages have been rehashing the same basic points. The only new thing in the last two pages has been Dybeck's point on PZ's following, which is good, but not really a whole lot to go on, until PZ responds.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:16 pm

Post by dybeck »

Starbuck wrote:
On dybeck
dybeck wrote:I'm not sure I'd be entirely unhappy about a kikuchiyo wagon, either.

I'd sincerely like to see her vote, and to give a sincere justification for her choice, for starters.
You say that in Post 106, and she voted in here.

Do you feel it was sincere?
Actually, since you ask, I think you're very possibly both scum.
dybeck wrote:Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.
You've obviously never played with me and know that the only reason that I'll won't be around is because work picked up in some way or another.

For the record, for all of you, I am active duty in the United States Navy. I can't spend my entire work day on the computer and some days, I'm just too plain exhausted to stay awake at night and catch up. But for the most part, I think I'm one of the most active players when it comes to my games.

Do me a favor and check out some of my previous games for my normal amount of activity before you decide to call me out on anything. I do everything in my power to not be a lurker because I despise lurkers. I definitely take great offense to being called one, and I'm willing to bet that someone is going to use this in their "case" on me, but I honestly don't care because most people who have prior experience with me know my opinion about lurkers and know my normal activity level.

Unfortunately though, sometimes my job and life gets in the way of my activity here and I can't control that. So why don't you do a little background checking before you start slinging a word like lurker at me.
Yet you did manage to appear as soon as you were called on it...
Grandi wrote:I can see absolutely no reason for a townie to react the way SB did, trying to "stop the quicklynch". The only thing i can come up with is if she thought the wagon would go straight to lynch, and i simply can't believe that someone who played 30ish games here believes there is a chance a random wagon without a case or anything is in danger of being lynched when it is at L-3
There's no reason for me to believe that it couldn't happen. You are so absolute in this. It bothers me.
It couldn't happen. It never has happened in any of your 30+ games and it won't happen in any of your future games.
Grandi wrote:Any semi-decent player could see there was no danger of lynching there, and if there was it would only be good as it exposes scum.
Not a fan of your ad hom.
This is not an ad hom argument. He's taking as a premise that your 30+ games should qualify you as a semi-decent player, concluding that you must have seen that there was no danger of lynching, and observing that the fact that you subsequently made inferences to the contrary stand out as fishy.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

Starbuck wrote:Wow. Reaching much. Can you provide specific examples for each of those accusations?
Compliance!
Papa Zito wrote:However, you drummed up fear by announcing you were worried about a quicklynch.
Starbuck wrote:I'm not comfortable with her having 4 votes already.

I'm not comfortable with you seeing that and putting her at L-3.
Papa Zito wrote:Further, you simultaneously announced you were saving us from said danger by unvoting and calling attention to the problem.
Starbuck wrote:Wolf, are you really FOS-ing me for trying to halt a quicklynch of a person on page 2?
If I had a second vote I'd be voting bv310 right now. He's so obvscum it hurts.
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