Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[Ellibereth]

If Budja L-1, before or after he claims?

After.

[CrashTextDummie]

Alright. Normally, I'd be grinding your gears for putting the breaks on a perfectly good wagon, but you have me intrigued.

[Budja]

Feh, don't expect a response to that.
---
@CTD, lazy once != lazy all the time.
---
@Sotty, mainly the latter.
---
@Leaf, It only really becomes clear in ISO. I am hard pressed to find one which really shows a solid opinion.

[CrashTextDummie]

@CTD, lazy once != lazy all the time.

lazy on a first read-through upon replacing into a game = the bad kind of lazy

[Budja]

Sometimes its easier to read/comprehend than others. Its mood-based really so I can't and won't defend myself here.

[Oman]

After re-reading the whole thread,

Vote: Kitten4u

Contradiction, and when called out, her defense seemed more about survival than helping the town.

Can you quote or link to those specific posts. I'm looking for a new wagon and I'll take yours if you can convince me.

(I'm ditching this wagon right now because I'm not getting anything from it)

Sorry I missed all of page 9 when I'd posted this (rookie move, I know). It was a post to pman's above. Kitten is fragging me some gut, I'll need to find some links myself.

[Sotty7]

Pnman do you still find Elli scummy?

How come? You don't even mention him in the rest of your post.

Eh, Elli's a pretty cool guy. Shamelessly bandwagons and doesn't afraid of anything.

I am guessing you are being sarcastic, but this doesn't really answer the question. If the shameless bandwagoning bothers you why aren't you pushing him on it?

Any chance of a vote count?

[Ellibereth]

Where's Thesp?

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 232
Kitten4u (4): [Leafsnail, Wickedestjr, CrashTextDummie, pman5595]
Leafsnail (3): [Budja, Kitten4u, Ythill]
Ellibereth (2): [Oman, My Milked Eek]
Budja (2): [Thesp, Ellibereth]
Pman5595 (1): [Sotty7]



With 12 Players, a majority of 7 is needed for a lynch.
Deadline is 10pm, 24th Jan 2010 (GMT)

[Leafsnail]

...Though I can't help but feel I've answered this question before.

...And I can't help but feel the answer's equally inadequate.
[quite="Kitten4u"]You see, it's questions like this that make me suspicous of you. If you can't tell who I think is scum you are obviously not reading the thread.[/quote]
It's deliberate misquotes like those that make me sure I'm not wrong about you.

Is that what you got out of the first three quotes I post in this post?

To some extent, yes.

@ Leaf: I'm not buying that your read on Elli was based on the questions you asked, because he didn't answer any between the two reads, and because you already said it was for different reasons, which makes this another slip.

The absence of an answer to a question can definately still tell you something. I feel that scum would be more likely to answer all the questions and try to get me off their backs.

I don't believe that you can't tell who the veterans are, when some of them have obvious special titles and post counts are easy to find.

I assumed the titles were by-request, which doesn't necessarily tell you how good someone is at playing. And I haven't looked up anyone's postcount because... well, I don't think it's important. Newbs and pros can both be scum.

As for the scum-chat slip, of course a townie wouldn't know exactly what's in the scum role PM but, unless he's never been scum, anyone should know what's typical. The rest of your defense on that point doesn't add up either.

I know what's typical, but every game's different. Sometimes it's nighttalk, sometimes daytalk, sometimes QT, sometimes pms and I thought this one might've been no communication. I'm getting tired of discussing this, but you can ask me about anything else you find odd about me reading the rules.

If #77 was a parody of Con (which is plausible), why didn't you tell him that when he seemed to take you seriously in #79?

I thought he'd got my point.

Overall, I find the tone of your defense vs. me to be null/acceptable but that against budj to be a little too slimey.

That'd be my RL way of talking creeping in.

What are your current reads on the two of us (and why)?

Ythll - Leaning town. Questions seem genuinely aimed at finding out my alignment.
Budja - Leaning scum. Attack contradicts itself, is fairly weak and he isn't bothering to apply any more pressure. I don't buy "lazy reading" as an excuse.

[Kitten4u]

but the content of them seems forced and does not match the tone.

I was getting pretty discouraged when no one seemed to be seeing what I was seeing and I wasn't quite sure how to explain a lot of it. Could that be what you were seeing? Feel free to ignore this question until you've gotten around to reading me if you think it would be better.

Sorry I missed all of page 9 when I'd posted this (rookie move, I know). It was a post to pman's above. Kitten is fragging me some gut, I'll need to find some links myself.

Can you look at Leafy in ISO too when you look at me?

If the shameless bandwagoning bothers you why aren't you pushing him on it?

Two things. First, Leafy is still worse in my opinion. Second, there's not really much to push when someone is shamelessly bandwagoning.

...And I can't help but feel the answer's equally inadequate.

Wait what? So I should ask questions even if I don't care about the answer and I don't think they will further my read on people?

It's deliberate misquotes like those that make me sure I'm not wrong about you.

Then you're going to have to be more specific with what you wanted. I thought I answered your question.

[Ythill]

I'm getting tired of discussing this...

It's okay, we don't need to go round and round at this point. Some of what you said makes sense, some of it seems like backpedalling. Suffice to say you're still my PE#1 and my vote is staying put unless I find someone more suspicious, but I'll let you out of the hotseat for now because I need to check out the other players.

I was getting pretty discouraged when no one seemed to be seeing what I was seeing and I wasn't quite sure how to explain a lot of it. Could that be what you were seeing?

Not sure at this point. I'll keep that in mind when I pick through your posts, which I should have time to do later tonight.

A note about my schedule: Tuesdays and Wednesdays are generally pretty busy for me. In many cases, I will have very limited time for the game on those days. I'll still check in, but don't expect the usual heavy content from me.

[Oman]

The one thing throwing me about Kitten4U is that she seems to be doing a lot of "I'm not scummy, but you are for asking that question." She does have a very defensive playstyle, and that can mean scum.

I'm happy to go to L-2 with this.

Unvote. Vote: Kitten4U

[Ellibereth]

I could roll with that. My theory can wait.

Vote: Kitten

L-1, claim time baby!

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 238

Kitten4u (6): [Leafsnail, Wickedestjr, CrashTextDummie, pman5595, Oman, Ellibereth]
Leafsnail (3): [Budja, Kitten4u, Ythill]
Ellibereth (1): [My Milked Eek]
Budja (1): [Thesp]
Pman5595 (1): [Sotty7]



With 12 Players, a majority of 7 is needed for a lynch.
Deadline is 10pm, 24th Jan 2010 (GMT)

I'm going to sleep, will be back in the morning

[Oman]

Elli is worrying me a little bit again.

Elli why are you voting Kitten. I ask because that looks like real scumpartner behaviour there.

[Ellibereth]

I want to see a claim.

[Leafsnail]

Two things. First, Leafy is still worse in my opinion. Second, there's not really much to push when someone is shamelessly bandwagoning.

There is something to push - you can ask them why if you think they're shamelessly bandwagonning, even if you think I'm worse. If asking questions isn't you style - well, you could try applying pressure.

Wait what? So I should ask questions even if I don't care about the answer and I don't think they will further my read on people?

I didn't say anything along those lines - that's a strawman. My general jist is that you aren't making any attempt to scumhunt anyone, even me, your prime suspect.

Then you're going to have to be more specific with what you wanted. I thought I answered your question.

Unless you seriously think I am a Serial Killer and the only scum in the game, there would be other scum out there. You aren't trying to find any of them, and you seem at best indifferent about my own alignment. I understand if you don't want to ask me questions, but you don't seem to be making accusations or doing anything else either.

Elli why are you voting Kitten. I ask because that looks like real scumpartner behaviour there.

Just to clarify, are you accusing him of bussing a partner or of bandwagonning a townie?

I'm not sure if I like the way Oman and Elli both jumped on Kitten. I'd like both of you to clarify your reasoning for doing so. Specifically, Elli, what made you change your mind about your theory? Why do you want to see a claim?

[Thesp]

Sorry I've been off the past couple of days. Back to work.

I'm posting in this one first because Thesp + Oman + CTD demands special treatment.

I'm flattered!

Most people read the rules during the confirm phase, especially if they are bored and bit-chomping like Leaf was.

I don't - though I see what you're getting at with what you're saying. I'm not sure scum would ask such a question in thread, though - I end up drawing the opposite conclusion about Leafsnail.

Thesp, why are you suspicious of Ellibereth?

Most stances he's taken in the game. I also find Oman persuasive. I also look for towntells from people, and I don't remember seeing any from Ellibereth. (This is furthered by Ellibereth's subsequent posts, but I must admit a bit of trepidation for the Budja wagon now that Ellibereth is on it.)

Where's Thesp?

Hi! I told my wife last night that I needed to post, but bed was too persuasive, so I woke up early to do it.

Elli why are you voting Kitten. I ask because that looks like real scumpartner behaviour there.

Really? Howso?

Looks like it's claim time for Kitten4u. I don't like either of the top two wagons, and I'm bothered that Budja and Ellibereth have no steam (though perhaps I'm partly at fault for some of it). More after the Kitten4u claim.

[Sotty7]

I would also very much like to hear a claim from Kitten. I'm kinda busy at the moment I will try and check in this afternoon when I get home to catch up on the posts I missed.

[Wickedestjr]

I see that Kitten is at L-1:

Unvote

. I'm not comfortable with her being that close to a lynch right now when we are about a week into the game and several players need to speak more.

Gonna start catching up now.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: I find the size of the wagon to be a bit unsettling.

[Wickedestjr]

Oman, what do you think of pman and Leaf?

To be at my most truthful: I think pman would give us a lot of info if he had a wagon put on him, as per the last game. I think it would be a good way to glean some good info (although for most people we seem beyond that stage of the game).

As for leaf, I don't get the scum read. I'll re-read him and his accusers and let you know my adjudication at this time. But from what I've seen, nothing has actually stunned me as either worth chasing him over, or worth pointing fingers at his attackers. Not worth asking for a summary right now, but I do think it looks like an early game wagon, which I'm cool with. If people know when to abandon it or not, that will tell me more.

This hardly says anything.

@Leaf in 215- Okay, I get it now.

Kitten has explained herself enough to satisfy me even though I disagree with how early she voted Leaf.

Whatever night talk rules. In this case, the lack of them. Are you paying attention?

I am a bit confused about the first paragraph in your case then, because the only rule concerning the night phase is this:

11. Nights will last 72 hours. If you don't respond in that time no action will be taken. Do not talk at night unless your role permits it.

..which doesn't even seem relevant to the case, so I am curious as to why you brought it up.


Ythill, can you give your opinion of Oman please?

Ellibereth, do you take players interactions into account when trying to figure out who the scum are?

[Kitten4u]

I'm a vanilla townie. Can somebody (preferably everyone on my wagon) summerize the case on me and/or explain why they're voting for me? Preferably including something that says "scum is more likely to do this and this is why."

With that said, I'm going to eat some food and attempt to explain why I think Leafy is scum again. This might take me a little while to get up, so bare with me. I promise I'll have it up tonight.

[CrashTextDummie]

Kitten, I'm voting you for:

1. using weak reasoning against Leaf and ignoring the scummy actions of other players
2. applying double standards
3. pushing a crap wagon
4. inconsistent behavior
5. using tunnelvision as an excuse for your scummy actions
6. not providing a convincing defense

Your claim makes you the only correct lynch for today.

Vote stays.