I agree with the statement. This is why I have been going back and forth on the issue. My gut says he is scum, but with that investigation, I don’t want to possibly lose something that can help us. I don’t want to speculate too much about what we should do with Richard tomorrow, given various results….if he is scum, it would help him decide what to do.CCARaven4 wrote: Also, Richard claims JoaT, and the only person who knows that he’s lying is the real JoaT (no, I don’t believe his claim).
Think about it, for scum, JoaT is a great claim, because of the Jacks very specific actions.
And when someone asks him to use his investigation tonight, he, as a mafia member, knows exactly who is and isn’t mafia, so he can claim that he investigated anybody else, and since he knows that person must flip town, he can just say that person flipped town after his investigation.
Couple points here. I don’t know if you are just skimming my posts or deliberately condensing them. First, I voted R2R, because of his reasoning behind his vote. It was a stretch and I felt like he was just trying to jump on bandwagon, but didn’t really have something new to add.CCARaven4 wrote:
Curiouskarmadog has really struck me as mafia. He voted ready2rock simply because he said that the JoaT was a powerful town role, and later he posts with
which he never expands on as to why he believes this. Because there haven’t been any nights for him to have investigated R2R, how could ckd know that R2R was mafia?curiouskarmadog wrote:also, R2R is a much better wagon.....
Very soon after that, he voted sorasgoof because he commented that Richard could be roleblocked tonight. One thing that I liked that ckd did was call out DragonsofSummer on his vote of sorasgoof, because he gave no reason other than “scummy things”.
Later on, ckd voted Richard with little to no analysis.
curiouskarmadog wrote:vote Richard
I had trouble with the claim
I am not liking his posts or votes now.Ckd seems extremely hell bent on a diddin lynch. Why? What do you (ckd) know that the rest of us don’t?curiouskarmadog wrote:I approveNicodemus wrote: but I'm definitely going toFoS: diddin
this statement makes no since....DO YOU THINK THEY ARE BUSSING EACH OTHER?diddin wrote:I think they're trying to drive suspicion from themselves, so that when one of them flips scum, the other one looks more innocent. On the side, Richard is trying to put suspicion on Parama, which could reduce the attention on both of them.curiouskarmadog wrote:you think that BOTH sora and Rich are scum? You think their back and forth are bussing? Why?diddin wrote:FoS: RichardGHP. Unless something is shown in the NK or someone slips up big, you're probably getting my vote next round. I think both you and soras are scum at this point, the only thing keeping me off you right now is the potential that you actually may have useful Jack abilities, soras made the scummier move by claiming VT when nobody asked him to.
That iscuriouskarmadog wrote:maybe I am missing something, how do we know their number =4?
There you go. People found me suspicious right from the start so lurking isn't really an option at this point for me. Besides, that other game I joined second, and thus takes a spot lower down on my list of priorities.Annachie wrote:Richard. If lurking is the way youusuallyplay D1, how do you explain this game?
Why would you care SO MUCH about Richard's claim to try to disprove it entirely? It seems like an odd claim to me and I'm not willing to believe it but there's really no point to this post.CCARaven4 wrote: And when someone asks him to use his investigation tonight, he, as a mafia member, knows exactly who is and isn’t mafia, so he can claim that he investigated anybody else, and since he knows that person must flip town, he can just say that person flipped town after his investigation.
It would be even easier to say that he investigated someone he knew was town, because then everyone would believe him, including the person he ‘investigated’. Again, he knows who is town because he’s a member of the mafia.sorasgoof wrote:All right, let's think for a minute. What would be easier for you to fake? An investigation, or simply saying that you were blocked? It doesn't take any thought at all for you to lie and say you were blocked.
A one shot protection, that’s even easier to fake, because you know who the mafia is targeting. Even better, the Mafia could just not kill someone one night, and Richard would be able to say that he ‘protected’ them, and everyone would fall for that, hook, line, and sinker, and everyone would be able to think that the doctor was protecting Richard from the mafia.
One shot roleblock is also very easy because he can say that he roleblocked a townie, because, again, he would know who the townies were and weren’t. This could be a little bit tougher because he doesn’t know exactly who the doctors are and such, but he would not have to use the roleblock fake for a pretty long time, because who was going to call for a roleblock?
That's not really what Raven said, he was trying to say that you CAN'T prove the role given a day or not. But he did take it overboard and I will admit he's certainly tunneling.RichardGHP wrote:So you don't think I deserve a day to prove myself? You seem to be VERY tunnel-visioned here, and from what I see you absolutely can't be convinced that I am town.Also, Richard claims JoaT, and the only person who knows that he’s lying is the real JoaT (no, I don’t believe his claim).
Think about it, for scum, JoaT is a great claim, because of the Jacks very specific actions.
And when someone asks him to use his investigation tonight, he, as a mafia member, knows exactly who is and isn’t mafia, so he can claim that he investigated anybody else, and since he knows that person must flip town, he can just say that person flipped town after his investigation.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISInflatablePie wrote:In addition, a wise pointer.
If your reasoning goes along the lines of, "He's scum, so this is scummy" or even "He's town, so this is pro-town", there's something wrong.
It gives scum ideas for who to NK - the people generally thought of as pro-town and are actually townies are basically being condemned through town lists. Don't post town lists ever. They're bad BAD ideas.CCARaven4 wrote: @Nicodemus: Town lists don't help us at all? I know when I see someone thinking that someone like Parama or Pie or Fugitive is pro-town, then it helps me just as much as a scum list.
I love your posting so much. This is such a great point. Just... yeah.Annachie wrote:Richard. If lurking is the way you usually play D1, how do you explain this game?
I feel like a gut feeling is pretty important this early in the game, so I wouldn't blame him for that too much.Fugitive wrote:Scum: All your scum tells are based off of essentially what you call "gut" feeling.
I agree, I also don't like it at all when people ask others for town lists, as they aren't very productive and can lead to alot of pot holes in the future that make it appear as if you were buddying or trying to get suspicion off of your scum buddy. Not really a good idea.curiouskarmadog wrote:IF YOU ARE TOWN...YOU WILL QUIT WITH THE FUCKING TOWN LISTS!
I think the point is that his other three roles aren't really provable in any way. Though I do not agree with thinking today about if we should lynch him tomorrow, as situations change and the town should adapt to them, I see where Pie is coming from.TheLonging wrote:we let him use 1 of his 4 abilities and then lynch him without regarding his OTHER 3 abilities? I don't know, that doesn't really sit right. Of course if you lynch him, you can prove if he's a confirmed townie, but then what happens to the other 3 abilities he was given that you completely disregard?
When will the speculation end?DragonsofSummer wrote:I can explain it ckd. Scum group= Soras, diddin, CCARaven, ?. I don't know who their 4th buddy is yet, but I am fairly certain that if any of those three is scum Richard is not, and vice versa. The pushing is just too hard for it to be bussing at this point.
Why do you think Cookie was angry at there being noobs in the game and how does this confirms CryMeARiver's innocence?TheLonging wrote:diddin wrote:His anger at there being noobs in the game[citation needed]
nodiddin wrote:Also, lulz at Bogre suggesting a wagon on people who have been wagoning. Hypocritical, much?
Except what you're doing is that you're not providing any new thoughts on why you think sorasgoof is scum, just restating reasons posted before. Same for Richard. If sorasgoof is mafia or Richard is mafia, will you think that the other is immediate is town?diddin wrote:@Dizzy: I feel as if I've been able to defend my points better on my recent votes for soras and Richard than my vote for TL. I actually think soras is scum and have defended my reasoning on my vote for him on a few occasions.
ah I see. Is it really a bad idea to let him use his other 3 roles though? Should we have to lynch him after he investigates?NavyCherub wrote:I think the point is that his other three roles aren't really provable in any way. Though I do not agree with thinking today about if we should lynch him tomorrow, as situations change and the town should adapt to them, I see where Pie is coming from.TheLonging wrote:we let him use 1 of his 4 abilities and then lynch him without regarding his OTHER 3 abilities? I don't know, that doesn't really sit right. Of course if you lynch him, you can prove if he's a confirmed townie, but then what happens to the other 3 abilities he was given that you completely disregard?
Parama wrote:Mod, my vote for TheLonging should not count as I forgot to unvote first. It is pretty surprising that nobody noticed it, but that was the point. TheLonging should've never been at L-1, technically speaking.
Nothing has changed about TheLonging being scum, though.
I wouldn't say JoaT is the perfect claim for scum, seeing as how it would be extremely difficult to pull off if you are not actually a JoaT. It would take a smart and experienced player to successfully fakeclaim something like that.CryMeARiver wrote:Richard's been trying to be really confusing acting noobish, then acting full of knowledge about the game and his claim as JoaT is a perfect claim for scum as previously explained by someone else...also, him claiming he doesn't have a kill as a night action raises much suspicion since that's common for a JoaT.
As CCR put it...RichardGHP wrote:I wouldn't say JoaT is the perfect claim for scum, seeing as how it would be extremely difficult to pull off if you are not actually a JoaT. It would take a smart and experienced player to successfully fakeclaim something like that.CryMeARiver wrote:Richard's been trying to be really confusing acting noobish, then acting full of knowledge about the game and his claim as JoaT is a perfect claim for scum as previously explained by someone else...also, him claiming he doesn't have a kill as a night action raises much suspicion since that's common for a JoaT.
Also, there is no rule that says a JoaT absolutely has to have a kill, or any specific night action for that matter. Sure, he will typically get a kill but there are exceptions to every rule.
No...because 2 other players have already claimed townie...all he has to do is say he investigated sorasgoof and "confirm" that he's a townie, if he really is scum...and if sora was scum as well, then sora still couldn't say anything without giving himself up...he could also backstab another mafia member, if he was scum, by saying that he investigated said scum and found out that he is indeed scum...one could easily fake the investigation...yet faking the kill is much harder(actually impossible I think), which could be why Richard is saying he doesn't have the power of a kill...TheLonging wrote:CMAR: It's obvious that CCR could be wrong because a scum would be crazy to call JoaT. It's actually going to be hard to fake the investigation, or any of his other abilities. That's where CCR's logic is flawed.
Beep diddin.
I think you're right, I had this great idea that Richard was faking JoaT that I was finding scummy posts when there really wasn't anything to find, I was just making stuff up. Also, Pie made a great point about Richard's investigation and using him to our advantage, so I'm going toNavyCherub wrote:@Raven: Your entire post feels like a great example of trying too hard. You're not looking for scum as much as you chose someone to be scum and then started building a case around a possibility instead of facts. That just isn't productive, and seems forced to me. So, FoS: Raven.
While that post seems rather hurried to take another vote off of you, I still don't believe you're scum and therefore lift my votesorasgoof wrote:@CMAR:
Apparently EtherealCookie had his vote on me before he left. You said you don't find me scum, so are you going to lift that vote?
Also, just as a heads-up, we have a little less than 2 weeks until the deadline.
This is also the reason that I haven't already voted for Richard...though I think he is scum, it is all hypothetical...I think that he should prove to us that he is the JoaT by using his investigation on someone we are unsure of their role and are already suspicious ofCCARaven4 wrote:I'm hearing what a lot of you guys are saying, and I think that NavyCherub summed it up nicely
I think you're right, I had this great idea that Richard was faking JoaT that I was finding scummy posts when there really wasn't anything to find, I was just making stuff up. Also, Pie made a great point about Richard's investigation and using him to our advantage, so I'm going toNavyCherub wrote:@Raven: Your entire post feels like a great example of trying too hard. You're not looking for scum as much as you chose someone to be scum and then started building a case around a possibility instead of facts. That just isn't productive, and seems forced to me. So, FoS: Raven.
unvote: RichardGHP
I'm going to withhold a vote for now. I've had my head wrapped around Richard for a good two or three RL days, so I'm going to have to go through again and find some scum.
So...you're speculating.DragonsofSummer wrote:We don't know there are 4. It is just an average number for a normal game this size. So I am guessing, and trying to fit groups into 4s, if later it becomes known that it is more or less than that I will have to realign my analysis to work with the new information.