Mini 898: The Game (you just lost it)-OVER

[Raskol]

Slow going here.

Sorry I haven't posted at all, I should've V/LA'd for the extended weekend but I forgot. I'll catch up today.

?

Also, wow...just noticed we have someone called Tom in the game. Didn't even notice them until now.

Prods on pretty much everyone, please.

AK, how much time are you willing to give Torqez, exactly? I know the game is going really slowly atm, but it's almost beginning to seem like you're just giving yourself an excuse to keep your vote in reserve.

Everyone has been prodded.
Unless otherwise stated, there is no tangible dead line. If people do not respond to my prod, I will put a deadline up for 1 week from the time it's posted. Additionally, remember to have me get replacements for those who don't respond or I won't know.
Step it up to ONI.
Mr. Suave-4-Suffer, Raskol, Peabody, llamaeatataco
Suffer-2- Torqez, MrSuave
AK47x2-1-AlmasterGM
AlmasterGM-1-SolemnJ
Llamaeatataco-1-Diamondilium
Torqez-1-qax42

[llamaeatataco]

yeah. Torquez hasn't posted since about page 4. Is he still V/LA?

The fact that he has not posted leads me to believe that his inactivity is legit. When compared to MrSuave, who has just posted random trivial nonsense, he comes out looking like he really doesn't have computer access. Raskol, who is this Tom you speak of?
Basically, If I had to choose between the lurkers, I'd choose the one that is actually posting. My vote stays.

As a side not, how do you get it to just say in bold "AlmasterGM wrote" instead of the regular quote?

Also, let it be known that I have now increased the game speed to 9001. That means people should be posting... A whole lot more.

[AK47x2]

@Raskol; Don't have a set idea of how long I'm willing to give. But I agree that his absence seems legit, and like I say there's other things going on.

I'll say here that if it goes another day with nothing from him, I'll take the logic that my vote might as well go to use elsewhere.

[AK47x2]

Also

Mod: Peabody and llama has two votes on the list.

[/b]

[llamaeatataco]

I guess I'm picking up my prod. This tom person... did he forget the game?
yeah. I just checked.

mod, can we replace Tom yet? If so, then please do so.

umm. This post has no other point...

[llamaeatataco]

mod, I actually have three votes on the list...

[AlmasterGM]

Prod received. I apologize, I completely forgot about this game. My bad. I will do a read through and make a substantive post within 24 hours. I promise.

[qax42]

Hello, I'm here. Literally nothing has happened that I want to comment on since my last post besides meta-talking. I should say that I've PM'd the mod to request replacements for Torquez and Tom.

In the light of the fact that Torquez has essentially dropped this game, I'm going to:

Unvote

I'm going to re-read the MrSuave case.

[Peabody]

Checkin in on the prod.

qax, there hasn't been anything you wanted to comment on? How about checking in once in a while and giving us your opinions?

[qax42]

I normally delimit sections with a single line stating the person I am addressing things to underlined, but in walls of text I felt that it can get lost. I'm auditioning area tags here. Let me know if it is annoying, and I'll revert back to my other method.

I have to mention, off-topic, that I have always

despised

BBCode. I know that when it was first pushed around the Internet, alternative plain-text markup was not in vogue, but there are so many better ways to mark text up that aren't so picky with formatting and spacing.

@llamaateataco

As a side not, how do you get it to just say in bold "AlmasterGM wrote" instead of the regular quote?

Like this:

Code: Select all

[quote="name here"]Quote here. Don't forget the quotation marks around the name or the quote will break. Preview is your friend.[/quote]

It will look like this:

Quote here. Don't forget the quotation marks around the name or the quote will break. Preview is your friend.

@MrSuave

My take on the MrSuave situation:

I really like Suffer's #196. I would have been stronger with this:

I don't like that breakdown at all, and it makes things sound worse than they are.

I think

the above

, more than this...

Christmas and New Years had just ended, so sorry I have a family and stuff.

...is an appeal to emotion. "it makes things sound worse than they are"? This is Mafia. The only thing we have to go on is what you type, and, characteristically, scumhunting is done by finding flaws in players' arguments. Things "sound worse than they are" because you have flawed posting.

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

Well, thank you for your input kind sir. How about, instead of us waiting around, you do something proactively for a change. Suspicion has been thrown around on a fair number of characters. Do a re-read and pick apart somebody's posts.

I agree with Peabody's #197 in that MrSuave is shirking suspicion.

@Raskol

I have problems with your case against MrSuave. Looking at your posts in isolation:

Right now MrSuave, Torqez, and SolemnJ are all lurking and being allowed to get away with it. That's a recipe for a lost game. I don't know if it's been because of the holidays or what, but that's over now and there's no more excuse. We need to get everyone either into the game or out of it (in a body bag if necessary). Of those three, SolemnJ is now eligible for replacement, torqez is V/LA, and

MrSuave is probably going to have to be dealt with by us. So...

vote: MrSuave

(emphasis mine)

You don't particularly build a case here. I don't really ascribe to a lurker-lynch policy, so that's one thing, but you follow with this 4 posts later:

Fair enough, I guess. In the meantime, how about making yourself useful and voting for MrSuave?

In the intermediate 3 posts, there is absolutely no mention of MrSuave. In fact, you tunnel on AK47x2 for not voting for Torquez (again, pushing for a lurker-lynch), despite his explanation—one I found acceptable.

The next post, in response to an admittedly pathetic MrSuave post:

If this is all you have to say, then I can only hope that others will be able to see why voting you is so useful.

(translation: stop lurking and contribute something or we'll hang you)

Again, no

case

against MrSuave.

When questioned about this by Diamondilium:

Because he's lurking, and from having read two games he was in, I don't think he'll stop it unless his only other alternative is death.

There are two issues here. I'll start with this:

Those are the only two I've read so far, but they're enough to convince me that a wagon on Mrsuave will help remind him that he needs to be productive. Otherwise he'll just continue playing RVS until endgame.

(1) I'm confused as to your objective with this wagon. You've stated, "I don't think he'll stop it unless his only other alternative is death" and, "a wagon on Mrsuave will help remind him that he needs to be more productive". Is your objective to just get MrSuave to post more? Surely then you should now push

against

this wagon now that he has started posting, poor as it has been.

(2) Your "case" gets introduced. A self-admitted half-read of his meta with dubious reasoning. You're taking a sample size of two.

Issues (1) and (2) are seemingly at odds. I take from (1) that you are simply parading the bandwagon to pressure posts from MrSuave, but (2) reads like you want to lynch him.

I already told you before you even asked the question that I'd only read two games.

If you weren't willing to take that sample size seriously, fair enough

, but then, why would you even ask the question?

(emphasis mine)

The italicized portion reads to me like you yourself realize how naive, for lack of a better word, your case is.

As far as I can say, MrSuave is as likely to be scum as anyone else at this point, and if we let him keep lurking, we'll never get any more info out of him to tell whether he's town or scum. He won't get replaced, wither: if you've noticed, he's very careful about posting often enough not to get replaced. I've already requested a replacement for SolemnJ if you remember, but that won't work for MrSuave. He'll do this all game and there's nothing in the rules that says he can't so the mod won't do anything.

Basically, the way I see it is, if he's scum, and we let him lurk, we're giving him a free pass to victory. If he's town, he'll start posting. Either way, the best time to take care of people like him is on D1.

Quite a few tidbits to comment on here.

(3) If he is, "as likely to be scum as anyone else at this point" then why not wait for him to begin posting and do some scumhunting elsewhere? You've voted him, gotten some other people to follow your scheme, and he is beginning to post.

(4) You again contradict yourself: if, "the best time to take care of people like him" is right now, you imply that you want to lynch him. You've already stated that he is as likely to be scum as anybody else, which means you have a neutral read on him

based on his posts

, not post frequency. I'm going to call those 50/50 odds. You seem very cavalier about sending someone to the gallows based on a coin flip.

By your final and 15th post in the game, you really haven't done anything substantial to further build your case up. You seem to be riding on the work done by mainly by Suffer and in small part by Peabody.

Response expected to more than just the numbered points.

[qax42]

EBWOP:

Didn't see Peabody's post sneak in there.

qax, there hasn't been anything you wanted to comment on?

Is that not exactly what I said? At the time, no, there was nothing in the intermediate posts that I wanted to comment on.

How about checking in once in a while and giving us your opinions?

Besides my absence, one I pointed out myself (I didn't see a single prod request to the mod or anyone questioning my whereabouts), I have done just that.

I will post as and when I see fit, thank you.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Tom and Torquez are now being replaced.
Sorry, I did the vote count rather late at night. I will fix it soon. *To be updated when i get home.

[llamaeatataco]

that's quite a lot for not having anything to say...

but most of it I agree with, except for Raskol and MrSuave. You see, MrSuave hasn't actually posted any content yet. Sure he has posted, but none of his posts have been about the game, except to say that he has a neutral read on everyone. This wagon is intended to either get him to post

content

by making him care, or to lynch him for being a warm, useless body, and potentially scum. This wagon doesn't have to end in a lynching, it just has to end in something other than MrSuave continuing to activelurk. Does that still seem naive to you? In my opinion, since we don't have anything substantially scummy to go on so far, using a mislynch on someone who could be scum, but isn't contributing or helping the town, is a good thing.

[AlmasterGM]

Interesting story here: I just sat down to do a read. Before starting on P1, however, I did a quick scan of this page and saw that a certain individual named "MrSuave" was under suspect. I decided to give him a quick ISO read to see what was up.

I'm not even going to bother to finish my read tonight. I am completely and utterly amazed that this man is not at L-0 right now. He has done absolutely zero scumhunting and contributed nothing to the town. Moreover, he CONCEEDS that this stance is not going to change in the future because he "doesn't suspect anybody." Are you kidding me? There is no way this guy should live until tomorrow. Either he's scum or really, really, really bad town and leaving him around will just confuse everybody.

I'll finish my read tomorrow. Right now, it's lynch time.

Unvote. Vote: MrSuave.

[qax42]

@

llamaateataco

:

but most of it I agree with, except for Raskol and MrSuave. You see, MrSuave hasn't actually posted any content yet. Sure he has posted, but none of his posts have been about the game, except to say that he has a neutral read on everyone. This wagon is intended to either get him to post

content

by making him care, or to lynch him for being a warm, useless body, and potentially scum. This wagon doesn't have to end in a lynching, it just has to end in something other than MrSuave continuing to activelurk. Does that still seem naive to you? In my opinion, since we don't have anything substantially scummy to go on so far, using a mislynch on someone who could be scum, but isn't contributing or helping the town, is a good thing.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier for flawed argument, but there is no way that I am going to let this slide. What would make you answer for someone who has come under suspicion

before

they would answer themselves? You have just given Raskol a free out. This is

extremely

scummy.

If I want you to answer, I'll ask you.

Vote: llamaateataco

[Raskol]

Because he does lurk as scum, and if he's town then a wagon will motivate him to start posting. And if it doesn't motivate him to start posting, then he's better off dead because he'll be a useless, unreadable question mark of dead weight for the rest of the game.

In my last three or four games we were plagued by lurkers and didn't take care of them early. In the end it's always come back to bite us in the ass.

Because he does lurk as scum, and if he's town then a wagon will motivate him to start posting. And if it doesn't motivate him to start posting, then he's better off dead because he'll be a useless, unreadable question mark of dead weight for the rest of the game.

In my last three or four games we were plagued by lurkers and didn't take care of them early. In the end it's always come back to bite us in the ass.

that's quite a lot for not having anything to say...

but most of it I agree with, except for Raskol and MrSuave. You see, MrSuave hasn't actually posted any content yet. Sure he has posted, but none of his posts have been about the game, except to say that he has a neutral read on everyone. This wagon is intended to either get him to post

content

by making him care, or to lynch him for being a warm, useless body, and potentially scum. This wagon doesn't have to end in a lynching, it just has to end in something other than MrSuave continuing to activelurk. Does that still seem naive to you? In my opinion, since we don't have anything substantially scummy to go on so far, using a mislynch on someone who could be scum, but isn't contributing or helping the town, is a good thing.

Normally I would agree with you about people answering for me, but llama really hasn't done anything except repeat for you what I've already said. I would describe that post less as 'giving Raskol a free out' and more as 'repeating things Raskol has already said which qax found it convenient to miss'.

As I've said before though, I really don't mind a llama lynch. So regardless of whether llama was doing what you thought he was, I agree he's a good enough pick. I still prefer MrSuave, but hey.

Regarding that: I understand some of your points about MrSuave, but I really do think that it's a good wagon. My only reservation about it is in the form of realizing that although MrSuave is a good target, we have a lot of other ones who are good targets for similar reasons. In that sense (and only in that sense) I admit that my choice of MrSuave is a bit arbitrary---I could just as easily be voting for Torqez, for example, or any of the other lurkers (and make no mistake, allowing everyone to keep lurking will result in our loss). But the fact that I have a lurkervote on is something that I'll stand by and given the state of the game, I think it should be easy for you to understand why I'm doing it.

[AK47x2]

That's it, I've spent more than long enough waiting on someone who's still V/LA. MrSuave's lurking, pretending not to be, not providing any decent defense on himself, or any other content at all.

vote: MrSuave

That's L-1.

[qax42]

@

Raskol

:

I find your #215 an inadequate response to my #209—there is a pretty significant amount there that I've pointed out that I would like you to respond to. I will then respond to your points.

@

MrSuave

:

Claim, now.

[Raskol]

You made a lot of points, most of which I felt were answered by what I said. If there are still things you want to know, let me know which ones you think I still need to address.

In the meantime, I have a question for you: I fail to see how it makes sense for you to both question a wagon I started and push for a claim from the person I started it on. What's the deal there?

[qax42]

@

Raskol

:


There's a statement or implied question made at least once after every quote of yours in my post. I do not feel you answered everything.

[Raskol]

Quote wars are useless, distracting, and antitown. I'm not going to answer every point individually when you've made that many similar ones.

If you can come up with a short list of clear, relevant questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[AlmasterGM]

@MrSuave: CLAIM NOW, FOO.

[Peabody]

@MrSuave: CLAIM NOW, FOO.

word.

[Diamondilium]

Is MrSuave still here?

[llamaeatataco]

@quax: I have already voted for MrSuave, and for the same reason as Raskol, so I considered your question to be in part directed at everyone that is voting for him. As he has already noted, my feelings are in line with his and he has already posted them, so no, it's not a 'free out.' Please don't misrepresent me. (reverse deja vu)

everything else was pretty much filler mixed with people asking for MrSuave to claim, and a little bit of conflict between Raskol and Quax.

@Raskol:

Why do you continue to say that I would be a good lynch? I'm sorry if I missed your reason, my bad.

@almaster:

did you say you were going to post some huge post a few days ago? It's been more than 24 hours.