Mini 905- Mafia in Sienna OVER

[CrashTextDummie]

Apologies for the lack of posts. I tried to get one in yesterday evening, but got white screen of death'd. I'll get one in tonight.

[Oman]

Oman, what do you think of pman and Leaf?

To be at my most truthful: I think pman would give us a lot of info if he had a wagon put on him, as per the last game. I think it would be a good way to glean some good info (although for most people we seem beyond that stage of the game).

As for leaf, I don't get the scum read. I'll re-read him and his accusers and let you know my adjudication at this time. But from what I've seen, nothing has actually stunned me as either worth chasing him over, or worth pointing fingers at his attackers. Not worth asking for a summary right now, but I do think it looks like an early game wagon, which I'm cool with. If people know when to abandon it or not, that will tell me more.

[Leafsnail]

First you say you are trying to see if Ellibereth's responses are inconsistent and you also say that the second question is just a possible follow-up question. The way you said "just a possible follow-up question" seemed to me like it wasn't really that important of a question. Also, you claim that the most likely reason for Ellibereth's behavior was to get reactions yet ask him why he acted that way? It doesn't make sense to me.

I thought it was the most likely, and best for a followup, although it wasn't the only reason, as Ellibereth later demonstrated .

These two strike me as disingenuous, particularly the last one because he said this. Unless I was supposed to take him totally seriously that he thought I was scum because I had Mafia Scum under my name.

It was a joke, but I didn't spend the next several posts pushing a lynch on you for it.

So that's what I was seeing. "Staying under the radar" may not be the right term for what I'm seeing, so I'll try to describe it again. Basically, I feel like he was trying to avoid connections with other players, but since doing that would make him look lurktastic and scummy I feel like he opted to ask a bunch of irrelevant/semi-relevant/reactionary questions to make it look like he was doing something.

But the questions weren't really irrelevant - they were all game related. I mean, I suppose you could accuse me of not caring about the answers, but they did each refer to the game.

Leaf, why did you ask the following question: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 42#2041742

Pregame joke.

[My Milked Eek]

I regret to tell you guys that it's possible that I have to leave this game due to real life issues. I informed the mod about this in greater detail. My apologies, but if you feel that replacing me is going to help this game, don't hesitate to do so.

[CrashTextDummie]

Got caught up.

First of all, I disapprove of the fact that several people are passing off my MME vote as a "RVS stance". It stopped being that the moment I reinforced it. I had legitimate concerns about the way MME questioned Ellibereth (the thing he was accusing him off, "giving up" the joke, was not even remotely scummy, in fact, it's about the only reaction a pro-town player should have when directly confronted as he had been by Oman), and felt like he may be trying to cook up a bogus case against him. I still consider him to be somewhat suspect based on that (and some other things), but it's not the strongest suspicion in the world.

People I am suspicious of besides MME:
Kitten4U
ConfidAnon
Sotty7, albeit to a lesser degree

Kitten4U I disliked from her very first content post: Her stance of "Ellibereth looked the worst, but he's not the scummiest" rubbed me the wrong way, particularly because I didn't see any reason to suspect Leaf.
I find her further accusations against Leaf to be unsubstantiated for the most part, and I agree with the people who expressed a feeling that she was applying double-standards when it comes to Leaf's scumhunting efforts versus those of other people.
She also doesn't make much sense to me:

Well first off, CTD is scummy, but your lack of stances worried me more than his weirdness.

I am what now? Does "weirdness" equate "scummy"? And what about my play was weird? And why didn't you express the feeling that I am scummy until specifically asked?

---------

ConfidAnon: Didn't like the Leaf vote. Didn't like how he tried to link him to Ellibereth even before that. Didn't like his reaction to being questioned by Thesp. Didn't like his reaction to being questioned about the number of scum. Didn't like how he tried to link Leaf to Pman. Didn't like the fact that he brushed off Leaf's accusations against him as OMGUS (they clearly weren't). Didn't like pretty much everything.

---------

My suspicions of Sotty7 are much less severe. I don't like her current suspicions (neither of them) and I didn't like her early Oman vote. The rest is gut. Not enough to start a wagon on, but I wanted it on record.

I'm not sure what the current vote-count is, but I think CA and K4U are both at 2 votes.

Unvote, Vote: Kitten4U

, mostly to spite Thesp. Will switch to the ConfidAnon wagon if it proves to have more steam.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Kitten

[Thesp]

I regret to tell you guys that it's possible that I have to leave this game due to real life issues. I informed the mod about this in greater detail. My apologies, but if you feel that replacing me is going to help this game, don't hesitate to do so.

I hope everything turns out alright for you. Take care of yourself first.

ConfidAnon: Didn't like the Leaf vote. Didn't like how he tried to link him to Ellibereth even before that. Didn't like his reaction to being questioned by Thesp. Didn't like his reaction to being questioned about the number of scum. Didn't like how he tried to link Leaf to Pman. Didn't like the fact that he brushed off Leaf's accusations against him as OMGUS (they clearly weren't). Didn't like pretty much everything.

*hifive*

Unvote, Vote: Kitten4U, mostly to spite Thesp.

I'm disliking the Kitten4u wagon even more.

[Ellibereth]

Oh Thesp, you should join us. The CA wagon isn't looking like it's going anywhere right now.

[Thesp]

The CA wagon isn't looking like it's going anywhere right now.

This makes me sad. I DEMAND CHANGE

[Ellibereth]

The CA wagon isn't looking like it's going anywhere right now.

This makes me sad. I DEMAND CHANGE

Yeah. You should CHANGE over.

[Sotty7]

These two strike me as disingenuous, particularly the last one because he said this. Unless I was supposed to take him totally seriously that he thought I was scum because I had Mafia Scum under my name.

Are you saying there is no difference between making a RVS joke vote and continually joking in the game once it's gotten serious?

So that's what I was seeing. "Staying under the radar" may not be the right term for what I'm seeing, so I'll try to describe it again. Basically, I feel like he was trying to avoid connections with other players, but since doing that would make him look lurktastic and scummy I feel like he opted to ask a bunch of irrelevant/semi-relevant/reactionary questions to make it look like he was doing something.

Am I making any sense?

Not really.

The questions he asked MME, confid and Thesp could easily be Leaf looking to see these players motivations for doing what they do. While there is a little theory involved figuring out what that player thinks is important and doesn't look like he is trying to avoid connections to me. I might be inclined to give you this point if Leaf continued to push the theory point of these questions. He didn't, so I think you are reaching.

My suspicions of Sotty7 are much less severe. I don't like her current suspicions (neither of them) and I didn't like her early Oman vote. The rest is gut. Not enough to start a wagon on, but I wanted it on record.

What don't you like about them? I will say that Wicked isn't as strong as pman and that kitten has climbed above him as my number two right now.

I'm disliking the Kitten4u wagon even more.

You disliked it in the first place? How come?

I will give confid another read today.

[Leafsnail]

Vote: Kitten

Uh... why are you voting Kitten? More importantly, why are you only voting for her after it looked like a bandwagon was starting?

I'm disliking the Kitten4u wagon even more.

Other than the fact that he's apparently doing it to "spite" you, you haven't made any other comments on Kitten. What exactly don't you like about people voting her?

[Kitten4u]

@Jase No vote? No comments on either me or Leafsnail?

It was a joke, but I didn't spend the next several posts pushing a lynch on you for it.

This is fair.

But the questions weren't really irrelevant - they were all game related. I mean, I suppose you could accuse me of not caring about the answers, but they did each refer to the game.

I must be terrible at explaining what I'm seeing. Anyway, what were you hoping to get out of those questions?

Her stance of "Ellibereth looked the worst, but he's not the scummiest" rubbed me the wrong way, particularly because I didn't see any reason to suspect Leaf.

I meant out of the pman/MME/Elli thing that had been going on for the last few pages. He looked the worst out of that group, but I thought Leafy was more likely to be scum. Sorry for not being clear.

I am what now? Does "weirdness" equate "scummy"? And what about my play was weird?

Yes because it looked like you were pushing your random vote when there was other stuff to look at from my PoV.

And why didn't you express the feeling that I am scummy until specifically asked?

Because I didn't find you as scummy as other people and I tend to only focus on a few people at a time. It's more of a playstyle thing. Look through any of my games (except maybe my first one, but I was scum in that game anyway) and you'll see that I tunnel badly.

I'm disliking the Kitten4u wagon even more.

This is going to sound like a weird question coming from me, but can you point out exactly what you dislike about it? EDIT: Okay, lots of people were asking this, but I do third this question.

Are you saying there is no difference between making a RVS joke vote and continually joking in the game once it's gotten serious?

I didn't think the game had gotten serious at that point. I thought Elli backing off on his joke was the end of RVS.

I'm disliking Elli more and more.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Kitten

Uh... why are you voting Kitten? More importantly, why are you only voting for her after it looked like a bandwagon was starting?

The wagon on you wasn't going to happen.

[Wickedestjr]

I apologize for being inactive, I spent all my time catching up in my other game. I should be able to make a post tomorrow though.

[Jase]

Sorry everyone, but I've had to ask for replacement. My computer had died, the laptop I'm posting on now is unfortunately owned by somebody else, who says that I can't keep it, and I don't know when I'll be able to get up and running again. Good luck folks, and lynch scum for me.

[ConfidAnon]

Sorry to be the second one in a row, but I have to ask for a replacement as well.

I feel like crap about this, cuz I was trying to stay active in games and not do this to the mod, but irl circumstances are causing me to do this.

Sorry guys.

[Darkstrike_11]

hey guys, a friendly mod update here!
This game has suddenly gotten quite complicated, with two people asking for replacements, and one person being unavailable for an unknown amount of time. This may take some time to sort out, seeing as I'm moving back to University tomorrow, and have a ridiculous amount of work on my plate.

Basically, I will try to find replacements as soon as possible, but it may be a while before we get this game back up to full "attendance". I may consider pushing the deadline back if the delay is huge. Having one third of the game drop out in the space of two days is no easy obstacle to deal with. Please bear in mind that this is my first attempt to mod a game, so be nice to me!

[My Milked Eek]

I still consider him to be somewhat suspect based on that (and some other things), but it's not the strongest suspicion in the world.

Go on, spill the beans.

And I'm not entirely unavailable for an indeterminate amount of time. It's just that I on one day during the next two-three weeks could easily drop out for a few days, depending on the severity of the real life issue at hand.

[Darkstrike_11]

Ythill replaces Jase
Budja replaces Confidanon

[Budja]

Hello .
Far too late for me to get a post out tonight but I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Darkstrike_11]

Vote Count as of post 195

Kitten4u (4): [Leafsnail, Wickedestjr, CrashTextDummie, Ellibereth]
Leafsnail (2): [Budja, Kitten4u]
Ellibereth (2): [Oman, My Milked Eek]
Budja (1): Thesp]
Pman5595 (1): [Sotty7]


Not Voting: [Ythill, pman5595]


With 12 Players, a majority of 7 is needed for a lynch.
Deadline is 10pm, 24th Jan 2010 (GMT)

Since I got replacements quite quickly, the deadline will remain the same.

[Oman]

Two more players I love dearly.

[Leafsnail]

I must be terrible at explaining what I'm seeing. Anyway, what were you hoping to get out of those questions?

Inconsistencies. Overexplanation. Overdefensiveness. Vagueness. Refusal to answer. Panic. The prescence or abscence of these things can tell you a lot. Note that these aren't all necessarily scumtells. Other than this... you haven't really asked any questions or made any kind of enquiries in that post. Why? Who's scum?

The wagon on you wasn't going to happen.

Why couldn't it have happened?

Ugh... it kinda sucks to have so many replacements so early. Totally messes up a read.

[pman5595]

After re-reading the whole thread,

Vote: Kitten4u

Contradiction, and when called out, her defense seemed more about survival than helping the town.