Mini 903 - Owarai TV (Game over... who won?)

[xRECKONERx]

Actually, both of those stances were taken mostly for reaction purposes.

[The Inquisition]

Vote: Amished

Amished stands out as the scummiest player to me, once you control for general play style.

Why do I think Amished comes across as scummy?

1. An over-reliance on RVS as a discussion focal point. This comes across as scummy to me because it's something that's read neutral. In other words, it's a way to avoid being read by others because discussion about something so innocuous is difficult to draw conclusions from. But I'm going to do it anyway because I think Amished knows exactly what he's doing.

2. The attack on Raivann rings false to me. If you offered me good enough odds (I don't know, 5-1 or something), I'd even take a bet that Amished is distancing himself for the future, but I don't know. I just don't see anything particularly scummy about Raivann at this point; he's followed, sure, but not in a way that's scummy.

Those are my thoughts for the moment.

[Amished]

Question for you then, Inquisition: What more than the RVS do we have to go on that I've been able to talk about? I've been asking questions about people's reactions to votes (starbuck comes to mind) and other's voting patterns (questioning Raiv's vote, as well as the unvote).

Also, I don't know how to take your false attack on Raivann comment. Either an attack is true or an attack is false. You can define it in a couple ways, but no matter how you slice it I don't see how you can call it a false attack if you're also going to say that we're partners.

Situation:

I'm town, my attacks are all true as they're made in good faith.
I'm scum, my attack is against Raiv and is false; making him town.
I'm scum, my attack is against Raiv and is true, making him scum.

There isn't a way that I'm scum and my attacks against Raiv are false and make him scum too.

/me goes off to wonder who's alt you are

[Amished]

EBWOP: The only other option is that you might think I'm 3rd party, but then I'm still scumhunting in good faith as the scum would then be a threat to me.

[Kise]

Vote Count:

Starbuck: 2

(VP Baltar, Anon)

HellnFire666: 2

(chauchaudotcom, Raskol)

Amished: 2

(Starbuck, Inquisition)

Anon: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Raivann: 1

(Amished)

Not Voting:

Devestation, dramonic, HellnFire666, Raivann

Threshold:

7 to lynch.

Deadline:

January 22nd.

[Raivann]

His vote on a wagon, apparently for wagoning's sake (read: Anon in 21, Raiv in 58, and then with Raiv's reasoning in 99 (looking for responses by bandwagoning) pretty much exactly mirrors Anon's (likes to bandwagon in 29/40).

His question to Raskol (138) that Raskol asked to a couple other people (109).

@chau: My questioning of Anon in 30 isn't the start of a line of questioning about the whole situation I suppose?

For the thing about Raiv's vote: I knew we were out of the RVS. Starbuck knew that we were out of the RVS (which didn't actually matter as she questioned an RVS vote by Anon). Somebody that didn't have a post yet and replaced in (Raskol) knew that the game was out of the RVS. That's just people I asked. If so many people knew that we were out of the RVS, why would you put out a random vote? He even said it was serious *afterwards* for looking for reactions; and not random.

Yes, there's two veins in there. Starbuck's questioning of one RVS vote and not another (since she read Raiv's as RVS as well) and Raiv's not reading all 2.5 pages of the game and knowing that we're not random. Can I not talk to a brick wall here?

blah, blah RVS blah, blah RVS...

[Anon]

Once again, my internet is acting like crazy, I definitely should have this thing fixed in the weekend.

Im probably missing some questions directed to me, so if you really want your question answered please requote it again.

Just a fyi for amished and baltar. During my newbie game and atm Im reading at least 15 different games in the different queues on this site. So even though I dont consider myself experienced, Im also not a total newbie, so I learnt that my vote is important, how ridiculous some random stages can get, and that a "random" third vote on someone is way more important than a "random" vote on someone else just for the sake of random voting.

So far, I like Raskol. I dont see a mafia posting someone is town since they usually want to gather the major amount of mislynches. Amished is also very active and I feel like he is scumhunting and asking questions.

I also get a good vibe from Devastation and chauchau posts.

Now to the people I have some questions:

@Reckoner: you say you did what you did for reactons. What reactions have you got so far and what is your analysis after this?

@Starbuck: Why are you voting Amished? Do you have some opinions of who is most likely town/scum?

@hellinfire: where are you?

Mod, please prod.

@Raivan, same question to reckoner, you say you did what you did for reactons. What reactions have you got so far and what is your analysis of the game?

@Inquisition, one question, if you say raivan hasnt done anything scummy, then what gives you the impression Amished is distancing from him. What are your opinions on other players?

[Devestation]

O.o That's a hell of a difference.

Unvote
Vote: Raivann

So far, he's basically done nothing original (bandwagon vote and the Raskol question). I think he's just copying people that he knows are protown.

Who's he copying and how would they be pro-town?

There isn't a way that I'm scum and my attacks against Raiv are false and make him scum too.

Can't rule it out as a possibility though, it's just a bus with a twist.

[Kise]

HnF666 is eligible for a prod come Sunday. Is 5 days of inactivity too long before I issue prods?

[Amished]

@Dev: I'm saying that Raiv-scum would know who's pro-town and who isn't. I put what I thought he was copying in early 145 (specifically he's copying Anon (and apparently xRx, but the reasoning for bandwagoning from Raiv looked really similar to Anon's early game reasoning) and copying Raskol's question back at Raskol.) The Anon thing is more serious than the Raskol thing as it's a valid question, but I wonder why he's not really come up with an original thought yet. Heck, his criticism of my RVS talk was a copy of Inquisition's accusations against me.

It still wouldn't be a *false* attack if we were on the same team. I'd know he's scum then; and my attacks are against somebody I know as scum. The closest parallel that I can think of is like a cop with a guilty investigation if that was the case.

[Starbuck]

HnF666 is eligible for a prod come Sunday. Is 5 days of inactivity too long before I issue prods?

Yes, you should do the 72 hr rule.

And I'll be catching up in a bit, got a vet appointment for my dog.

[Devestation]

It still wouldn't be a *false* attack if we were on the same team. I'd know he's scum then; and my attacks are against somebody I know as scum. The closest parallel that I can think of is like a cop with a guilty investigation if that was the case.

Yes, but... oh I get it now, but then of course you would both be scum and the point would be moot.

[HellnFire666]

I am here, sorry. Basketball and homework have not been friendly to me, I've been meaning to post a good response and will do so this afternoon since I have no basketball practice.

[Amished]

Bingo Dev.

[chauchaudotcom]

Dev's point would work if Amish was a SK right?

Also, where the ef did Dram go?

[VP Baltar]

Catch up post here...apologize if there is some repetition in there, but this is as much for me as it is for you:

First off, Amished, do you have any previous experience playing with Starbuck?

@Starbuck: the early part of your post is what makes me wonder. We got out of the RVS rather quickly. It doesn't really matter when somebody has their first post, if they're following along they'll know the tone of the game.

While I can see how this doesn't necessarily make logical sense, I'm failing to see what Starbuck's scum motivation was here. Unless you are suggesting that Rav and Starbuck are scum buddies, which I don't think there is any real evidence for, I don't understand the point of this questioning.

Ok I'll explain in more detail my vote now.
It was random in the way that I didn't find Starbuck scummy
It was serious because I wanted to see the reponses it would get.

And what did you learn from those responses, particularly Amished since he focused on it mostly?

--Raskol's list of questions is a bit empty, but a good enough start I suppose (at least as could be expected at this point in the game).

My experience with Anon is more relevant as of this moment because he's playing very differently than I saw him play as scum.

link?

--edit, got it!

probly Hellnfire & chauch.
Hell because I don't think Anon's posts were confusing and his unvote seems fishythefish to me.

Chauch because her questions seem fake.

I actually strongly agree with both of these, particularly HellnFire. He seems very apologetic and eager to appease players when he is questioned.

Unvote, Vote: HellnFire666

Raivann---based purely on the information I have now, I would say Hell, followed by VP Baltar

Seriously? Any particular reason?

So far, he's [Raivann] basically done nothing original (bandwagon vote and the Raskol question). I think he's just copying people that he knows are protown.

He's more guilty of that than chauchau?

1. An over-reliance on RVS as a discussion focal point. This comes across as scummy to me because it's something that's read neutral. In other words, it's a way to avoid being read by others because discussion about something so innocuous is difficult to draw conclusions from. But I'm going to do it anyway because I think Amished knows exactly what he's doing.

The game has to move forward from something though, correct? What would you say Amished should have been talking about ?

2. The attack on Raivann rings false to me.

I do agree with this, however. Amished has been clinging to this hard and I don't see much scum motivation from Raiv to act the way he did at that point.

HnF666 is eligible for a prod come Sunday. Is 5 days of inactivity too long before I issue prods?

God yes. 72 hour rule plz. Games already take long enough on MS. Someone who doesn't post in 5 days should be replaced imo.

Dev's point would work if Amish was a SK right?

Let's not go down this road at this point, k?

Also, where the ef did Dram go?

Toward prod/replacement land I hope.

---

tl,dr

Hell needs to put up something very impressive or be lynched. He's overly concerned with his image, imo, which is a pretty good noob scumtell.

[Raskol]

Seriously? Any particular reason?

Yeah: your posts up to that point seemed to avoid making much comment on other players in the game in an alignment-relevant or information-seeking sense (compared to the early posts of others), which is the opposite of what I'd expect from a town VPB.

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote; Vote: HellnFire666

Pressure! Pushin' down on me, pushin' down on you...

[Amished]

@VP: Not necessarily, but chau has been lining up with my viewpoint more than Raiv. If I can see where they're coming from, they're more likely to be of my alignment.

Also, I've played with starbuck for like 2 real-life days I think in Tar's Legacy of the Ancients mafia before I got daykilled by Xyl. No real interaction. As for the point of the questions, hopefully it'll get me information for later. If I can see how far somebody would think ahead (so far, impression is maybe 2 steps or so); if something goes "wrong" for hypo-Starbuck-scum I'll know how far I have to question to see if she's scum or if she's town and it's just a weird circumstance.

[VP Baltar]

@VP: Not necessarily, but chau has been lining up with my viewpoint more than Raiv.

So it's fine to coast on the work of others as long as the person coasting agrees with you?

As far as Starbuck, I don't mind you questioning her really, I'm just saying that the matter seems a bit trivial and not really moving toward determining alignment.

[chauchaudotcom]

V/LA until Sunday.

Also, I want to

unvote

for now. I know you guys are pressuring but I'd rather not have something happen while I'm away. Will catch up with everything when I return.

[Amished]

I've agreed with her questions as much as I feel she's agreed with mine. I haven't always asked them because she's asked them for me, we just go about it in different ways to get the answers we want. What of hers do you feel she's coasting by completely on?

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't really get any reactions from my outlandish posting. Bitches be ignoring me, ya dig?

[Amished]

Be more outlandish? What are your thoughts on a top suspect?

[xRECKONERx]

Top suspect? On page 7? When most people haven't shown up yet?

Blagh. I don't like doing this. I'll say I think one of either The Inquisition or VPB is scum, though.