Open 191 - Paris Mafia II (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 1-2

:

Kise ~ L-3 (Cat, XScorpion, kyle99, Mylynes)

Cat ~ L-5 (Rhinox)
flinter ~ L-6 (Looker)
Gerty ~ L-6 (Dry-fit)
XScorpion ~ L-6 (flinter)
kyle99 ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)

Not Voting: Kise, Gerty, xofelf

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is January 18 at roughly 8 a.m. (GMT-5).

Mod note: Please make sure your votes are in the proper format if you expect them to count from this point forward.

[flinter]

since mimes have no real incentive lynching goons, I think the other way around is more likely, goons making use of an easy target. Since we basically agreed on not lynching the easy target, the bandwagon is the next we look at.

Now if Kise is a mime,

wait. The same argument goes here. Scum doesn't want to lynch mimes, and by now they could have known.

Anyway, I think it is more in the scum's mindset to lynch easy targets, while the mimes are busy getting lynched, not lynching scum.

[flinter]

Mod - If the goons die first and the mimes survive, will town win right away?

No.

if the vig dies, the mafia dies (this could be the end of day 2 soonest), would the mimes win right away?

[Dry-fit]

This is pretty odd. I can't really see a pro-town, pro-mafia, or pro-mime reason for Kise's play so far.

Xscorpions play is very different from the first, he is kinda lurky and jumps the first opportunity knowing that there are mime's unvote vote Xscorpion

It's kind of a stretch to call him lurky already isn't it?

I will say that a Kise vote at this point seems like an easy excuse for scum to place a vote.

[Sarag]

Its obvious he just claimed scum. Question is, mime, or goon trying to make us think he's a mime? (hint: unvote him and the vig can take him out tonight.)

I agree with this.

Also, knowing Kise, that's pretty standard play for him.

What do you mean by this? I think it's not unlikely that Kise-mime would make an obvious move like this.

[xRECKONERx]

I mean, Kise's joking nature and the fact that mimes wouldn't be so obvious make me think it's just Kise joking around.

[Mylynes]

I'm not 100% sure what exactly a mime is.. They are antitown or protown and win if they get lynched but are we supposed to lynch them or not? Sorry but the mime thing is confusing me. This is the first time I've played with mimes.

[Gerty]

@xRx - I find your interpretation of Kise a little bizarre. I think that the forgiving interpretation is "he's reaction-fishing" rather than "he's just kidding let's pretend it never happened"...?

@Mylynes - They are anti-town. We don't want to lynch them, we want the mafia or the vig to shoot them right in their fancy Parisian faces.

Also, the above post (Sarag's) was made with the wrong account, apologies.

[Mylynes]

@xRx - I find your interpretation of Kise a little bizarre. I think that the forgiving interpretation is "he's reaction-fishing" rather than "he's just kidding let's pretend it never happened"...?

@Mylynes - They are anti-town. We don't want to lynch them, we want the mafia or the vig to shoot them right in their fancy Parisian faces.

Also, the above post (Sarag's) was made with the wrong account, apologies.

Thank you for the info. In that case I would like to

Unvote

.

@Cat - I unvoted you but I would still rather you have an avatar. I don't care what you decide to use as long as you have one.

[kyle99]

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters,

unvote

.

[Gerty]

Its obvious he just claimed scum. Question is, mime, or goon trying to make us think he's a mime? (hint: unvote him and the vig can take him out tonight.)

I agree with this.

Also, knowing Kise, that's pretty standard play for him.

What do you mean by this? I think it's not unlikely that Kise-mime would make an obvious move like this.

Sorry, wrong account. This was me.

[Looker]

Being truely random with a dice roll avoids me being subconsciously drawn to a name, avatar, quote, join date, whatever.

It also allows you to vote without having to come up with a reason for voting.

You don't need a reason to vote that early.

um flinter.... you DO know that there's such a thing as a joke vote right?
in the beginning of the game, you have no knowledge on anything so you place votes to get reactions often and reads... heaven forbid you were one of those people who got voted, huh?

Unvote

since you're being a spoilsport

Don't cry, vote.

I hugged Cat when I realized who she was. I suggest she.. gets a cat for an avy.. duh!

BTW guys I'm voteless townie so I won't be voting at all this game.

I say we lynch you. (If you're not going to vote, of course)

I also want to add... if Kise ends up being a goon, I'd bet anything at least 1 if not more of Xscorpion, kyle99, and Mylynes are mimes - a mime would know right now which faction kise is. Especially given this new information:

Mod - If the goons die first and the mimes survive, will town win right away?

No.

If I understand this correctly, if the mimes eliminate the goons and the vig (or at least identify the vig to RB), they can auto-win via being unable to be nked, since the rules state that no-lynch is not an option while the mimes survive. I.E. the town would have to lynch either town or the mimes. Lynching mimes makes us lose, lynching town delays losing until the mimes hold voting majority. So mimes have an incentive to eliminate goons.

That also means I disagree with flinters vote on Xscorpion. I don't see any goon incentive to eliminate a mime if kise is a mime. also not sure if kise is a goon, that his scumbuddy would be so quick to bus knowing they are only a 2-player team.

So, actually, I'm going to have to say that kise's claim is very beneficial to us... we vig him overnight either geting rid of 2 mimes or 1 goon, and thanks to the wagoning, I would have to say

its not very smart to lynch any of the 3 who wagoned - odds are they're either mimes or town, regardless of kise's allignment.

That means today's lynch choices are narrowed down to {flinter, reck, xofelf, cat, rhinox, gerty, dry-fit, and looker}

Kise, since you've already claimed scum and you almost certainly will die tonight unless the vig gets blocked, mind making it easy on us and telling us who your partner is?

·

You say this under the assumption that Kise is scum, correct?

·

There is no partner, Rhinox; it's a gambit.

Kise is possibly not scum, especially since his joking "lol idc" attitude tends to show up a lot when I play with him. No homo.

Sure, vig him, I don't care. I definitely don't like the bandwagon on him, though.

OK, that makes sense. I don't like the bandwagon on him either and we agree to vig him. The only thing that changes from my end is that if kise is town, that reopens the possibility that Xscorpion, kyle99, and/or Mylynes could be goons.

I'm thinking Kyle99.

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters,

unvote

.

You couldn't deduce this from the Role PMs posted on Page 1?

---

We need to rally up a bandwagon/lynch of some sort or we'll get nowhere.

unvote
vote Kyle99

[XScorpion]

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

[Rhinox]

Went back and read the role PM's.... Taken at face value, mimes can't win exclusively. If they both get lynched, they are removed as threats to the town. So, even if the mimes get lynched and fulfil their win condition, we can still fulfil the town win condition by lynching or vigging the goons. At least, if I'm understanding the win conditions correctly.

Mimes have every incentive to lynch goons. By removing goons, they eliminate 1 threat of being nked and losing. If they manage to kill/block both goons and the vig, nothing can stop them from achieving their win condition. So theres more to it than just playing like jesters and trying to get lynched. I guess it comes down to whether we want to win as town exclusively or if we don't mind sharing the win with the mimes as to whether or not we lynch them. It seems best to just ignore the mimes and try to lynch and vig the goons because if both goons are gone we win it seems, we just have to share the win with the mimes. A win is a win as far as I'm concerned.

[Looker]

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

Either way it goes, we're looking to Vig mimes and lynch goons, so, Kyle, I don't understand how your mime-jester correlation affects your voting. What did you

think

they were? Why did you unvote?

Went back and read the role PM's.... Taken at face value, mimes can't win exclusively. If they both get lynched, they are removed as threats to the town. So, even if the mimes get lynched and fulfil their win condition, we can still fulfil the town win condition by lynching or vigging the goons. At least, if I'm understanding the win conditions correctly.

Mimes have every incentive to lynch goons. By removing goons, they eliminate 1 threat of being nked and losing. If they manage to kill/block both goons and the vig, nothing can stop them from achieving their win condition. So theres more to it than just playing like jesters and trying to get lynched. I guess it comes down to whether we want to win as town exclusively or if we don't mind sharing the win with the mimes as to whether or not we lynch them. It seems best to just ignore the mimes and try to lynch and vig the goons because if both goons are gone we win it seems, we just have to share the win with the mimes. A win is a win as far as I'm concerned.

- I don't want second place.
- I don't think they'll play along as long as our Vig is living.
- Let's stick to the simple stuff first, we don't want to confuse anyone. Neither do we want to extend a psychological (WIFOM) edge to other factions.

---

Let's lynch some scum.

[Rhinox]

- I don't want second place.
- I don't think they'll play along as long as our Vig is living.
- Let's stick to the simple stuff first, we don't want to confuse anyone. Neither do we want to extend a psychological (WIFOM) edge to other factions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's lynch some scum.

What do you consider 2nd place? Sharing a win in general, or specifically being 2nd to achieve a win condition? Because if the goons die first, town and mimes will both technically achieve win conditions at exactly the same time. In other words, we lynch a goon today and vig a goon tonight, we win because nothing can prevent us from acheiving our win condition. IMO, it would be the mimes who would be considered second place if they achieve their win condition after both goons have been killed, because they don't acheive their win condition until the vig is taken care of as well.

[Looker]

In regards to the 2nd place concept, I was supporting the Lynch Scum, Vig Mimes MO in stating that we shouldn't lynch mimes and come in second place after they're gone. I was also expressing doubt in the belief that they would help us if we still have the means to beat them, ie Vig, in which case it wouldn't be a shared win but a Town win if the Vig did her job.

I didn't take into account the possibility of killing off both the goons D1; however, if this were to take place, I'm pretty sure you'd be right, though I think this too far into the future to be considering without input or analysis from anyone else.

[kyle99]

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

I'm sorry it was ignorance, but I don't see how "major" it is. When I was reading the role PMs, all I got from mime's were that they were a second set of goons who could roleblock at night. How is that scummy?

[Looker]

You are a

Mime

along with your fellow Mime, XXXX.

Each game night you may communicate with each other here: XXXX. In addition, each game night you may PM me the name of one player to roleblock, and the Mime who will perform the roleblock. All night actions by the blocked player will not occur. You will not be informed of whether or not a block successfully alters the events of a night.

You win when all Mimes have been lynched.

Please confirm you have read and understand your role by PMing me.

This isn't indicative of a goon, Kyle. It's not indicative of Mafia at all.

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

I'm sorry it was ignorance, but I don't see how "major" it is. When I was reading the role PMs, all I got from mime's were that they were a second set of goons who could roleblock at night. How is that scummy?

Who do you think is scum?

[Kise]

This is pretty odd. I can't really see a pro-town, pro-mafia, or pro-mime reason for Kise's play so far.

WTF happened to RVS?

Actually, I didn't do it for RVS reasons. kyle and mylyne are town based on their reactions. I'm not liking how Scorp' reacted to me because he was in the previous installment of Open 191 so he should be able to easily identify whether I was using mime-play or not.

I guess it comes down to whether we want to win as town exclusively or if we don't mind sharing the win with the mimes as to whether or not we lynch them. It seems best to just ignore the mimes and try to lynch and vig the goons because if both goons are gone we win it seems, we just have to share the win with the mimes. A win is a win as far as I'm concerned.

Weren't you just trying to vig me because I'm mime? So, subconsciously, if you think I'm mime and you also don't mind sharing a win, then why not think the mime's will lose after I'm vigged?

Me thinks Rhinox is throwing in the towel too early if town, or subconsciously making a mime-slip. Directing the vig away from you isn't cute neither, kupo.

[xRECKONERx]

Psssst, Kise, look again: kyle99 is scum.

[Kise]

I'm considering him a quasi-newcomer. As such, I could see a newcomer . His play in other games tips me off to how he'd play

Let me ask this though: If he's a goon (since the general intention is not to lynch mimes) how did the deduction come that he's scummy for thinking mimes are with the goons? If he's feigning ignorance and knew I was a mime & he's a goon, why would he want to help me reach my win condition before his?

[xRECKONERx]

That's not why he's scummy.

[Kise]

Cod damn it..

I'm considering him a quasi-newcomer. As such, I could see a newcomer

not understanding that mods will rename roles, and also only thinking town is the good guys, while anything else is lynch-worthy

. His play in other games tips me off to how he'd play

in general, and after a brief review of how other players treat him, I still think he's getting his feet wet in these games.

Fixed.

[Kise]

Then what is the reason?